50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

lucKY2b, your better stability creates more efficiency argument seems plausible to me. In addition, I've been told by knowledgeable trainers that stability exercise for runners aid in injury prevention in that they are intense workouts for small muscle groups not otherwise worked so readily as well as tendon and ligament conditioning.

My first get serious comeback week after a rather benign 2012, ... fitness-wise.

Mon: Easy 4.5 mi hilly trail run

Tues: Easy 4 mi flat trail run, 2x 12 sec hill sprints

Wed: Easy 4.5 mi flat road run

Thurs: Easy 5 mi hilly trail run

Fri: rest

Sat: 4 mi road run, 2 mi medium pace

Sun: Easy 6 mi flat road run. 30 minutes stability and core work

28 miles, almost all easy. Lots of eccentric heel dips during week (for chronic achilles issues). Feel OK. A month of base work like this adding some strides and build up on hill sprints. Need to get in more stability work in gym.

There, maybe I can motivate some other modest logs out.

Endurance, strength, explosiveness, balance, coordination, proprioception, agility, mobility, flexibility, and form are all interrelated aspects of running and of more general fitness. Balance exercises are particularly tedious and often frustrating and, as a result, I feel are often overlooked in training programs. Rehab programs, however, focus a lot of their effort on balance-type exercises...I think that's telling.

@mo'pak - I'm always either running or working, but I'll make it to the post office some day.

@alf tupper - It took me a long time to decipher your cruise intervals... I've hit 95% of mhr in a race but never in a workout. Inspiring.

@Edgewood - Good that you got a correct diagnosis. I like your goals. My problems are always on the right side, just the way it is.

@WOC - Ballroom dancing perhaps?

@everybody - It must be only the young'uns on letsrun who believe "just running" is enough. Whereas the M50+ seem unanimous that some kind of strength work is necessary. I've been good! Weights Mon/Thu, yoga Sun/Wed, stretching+core routine Tue/Fri. Hoping for good form at mile 23 of my next marathon.

Hey all.. esp. lucKY2b,

It's been quite awhile since my last post, but here goes.

Running doesn't seem to work for me anymore. PF, joint issues, and just excessive general soreness have prompted me to pursue other less strenuous aerobic activity.i.e cycling and Nordic skiing.

To that end, weights and more power related training is being pursued. I'm gaining weight(10#'s) in the process, but overall I feel good. Got in about 2,000 road miles this past summer. Currently spending somewhere around 10 hours per week on skinny skiis with a goal of a sub 3:45 Classic Birke in Feb.

My infrastructure is content with the move to re-invent. May include some paddling in next summer's itinerary.

Anyway with 57 marathons and a host of road and trail races under my belt my 61YO body is still topside and vertical.

Ready for the next chapter.

All the best to the regulars here, your banter and insights are appreciated. Bush'man

@alf tupper - It took me a long time to decipher your cruise intervals... I've hit 95% of mhr in a race but never in a workout. Inspiring.

yes i justed looked back and see what you mean i should have put more of a space there.Well i am running level 3 which is about 140 - 145 for the 1 mile,

level 4 which is 147 - 153 for the 2 mile (about 88%-92%)

Does this make it that bit clear it does for me!! lol.

ps hope you sort the coach thing out.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4064465&page=98#ixzz2HOMrxGRN

Alf,

This was my understanding of your workouts.

Percent of Max Heart Rate / pulse table, Karvonen

100 164

95 157

90 150

85 143

80 136

Mon 10:04 miles. cruise intervals

1 mile@141 6:41 83%

2 mile@149 12:37 89% 6:18 per mile

1 mile@142 6:37 84%

2 mile@150 12:45 90% 6:22 per mile

1 mile@141 6:44 83%

Friday 3 mile tempo @ 18:49/6:16 pace

Similiar effort to the 2 mile cruise intervals run monday but for a longer distance 3 miles.

Charlie you have got it spot on thanks even i understand it.It might shock you but that is also how it feels to me when i am running these they feel 83% like you say 90% feels it thanks i will keep this format.

Bushman! Good to hear from you. Yes, when we communicated off the boards last summer, you indicated to me that biking and skiing (low-impact) were the way you were going. Good luck in the Birkie! BTW-I had a good visit with Tom Kaufman over Xmas break up in Madison just after the blizzard.

Alan Bennet wrote:the M50+ seem unanimous that some kind of strength work is necessary.

A concept I've intellectualized for a long time, but I've only tepidly internalized it....it is my New Year's resolution to take it more seriously.

Charlie wrote:

What I was trying to say is that being aware of your form while running is very important to injury prevention.

Charlie, I wasn't dodging your comment, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just trying to assess how it applies to me personally. You'd have to know the history of how this hip thing came about; I acutely traumatized some muscles a few years ago due to some sprint exercises I was not properly prepared to do. Though it mostly healed, a low-grade issue remains, so it's just not been quite the same ever since. Honestly, I feel like my form is better than it's ever been, and really, it's a weakness of some deep-seeded stabilizer muscles that I just can't seem to find the right exercises to isolate and strengthen. Since it's a low-grade thing, it doesn't really affect me until I've logged a few hard miles. Hence my resolution posted above, to nip this thing once and for all (hopefully)....truth be told, I should probably go see a PT, but I've been reticent as I had a pretty bad experience last time out.

L2B glad it is a low grade issue and hope you get the stabilizer muscles strengthened.

I have wanted to learn how to sprint. Caution is gonna be my mantra;)

Tom K. had a nice article in Silent Sports recently. Despite facing his own physical challenges, he sure put his XC team through all the hoops in topping out the State.

What A Prince of a Man.

34F here and raining. Not a good combo for the winter enthusiasts in Wisco's hinterlands.

I couldnt agree more. As part of the rehabilitation for my Achilles I had an overall assessment of my biomechanics. My glutes were incredibly weak (not surprisingly, especially the injured ankle side) and my VMO was quite weak.

I was provided an excellent program to strengthen these imbalances and along with the specific soleus and gluteal exercises and am finding it extremely helpful as I return to running. I realize only now that perhaps for most of my running life my glutes in particular were under developed not "firing" properly and as a consequence by quadriceps and hip flexors were being recruited for a role they are not designed to do. Although I dont find these "core" sessions especially fun (I'd rather be running :-)) I am becoming convinced that they are important and perhaps especially so in older runners as we lose some muscle strength and/or carry years of imbalances.

Great comment, DrT! After how sluggish I felt on Sunday's run at the beginning of this week, I decided I need to try a new strategy for this new year. I'll be focusing much more on strength and balance for the coming months and cutting way down on the miles (right now, 5 miles will be the max...maybe one longer run a week) until I feel that my strength and conditioning has stabilized to the point where I can run without muscle soreness (and this strength stuff is making me sore.) I started adding one leg squats this week and I'll agree that my glutes need work...too much sitting on my arse, haha (but I'm serious). We'll see how it goes.

Here's the article that got me thinking about glutes this week.

On a related note, I'm also thinking about getting an ergonomic chair for work. I don't think my sitting habits (ie-what I'm doing when I'm not training) are good. Any experiences?

Cheers!

Try running trails and grass instead roads.

Thanks for the super downloads LucKY2b. Dang... if only I would get into the habit of doing the! I might have to pay for a class just to do so. What we need is a class for just us old timers who refuse to give father time our bodies. If only we all lived in the same town. Thanks again.

KP

L2b, thanks for the link. I am a poster boy for the posterior tilt - a real sitting in the bucket action, a tendency to over stride and heel strike. I am taking the opportunity of returning from 2 years off to "learn" a better action if possible.

Re your question on a chair - my therapist suggested I use a "Swiss Ball" as a chair (i have an office job which has me sitting for 8 - 12 hours a day and I notice my hips get very tight). I have been using the ball and find it effective - in fact I noticed some fatigue and soreness in my deep abdominals and other core stabilizers after the first couple of days... it must be helping then, right :-).

While I am here, week just ended - achilles continues to improve everyday. I am relatively slow but out there.

Sun 2.15 trials,

Mon core, 13km easy

Tues 5km of hill fartlek (1km loop with 2 60sec hills - surged the hills and floated down)

Wed. 90mins (20km)

Thurs. 8 x 90sec efforts, 60sec float

Fri. 50mins jogging

Sat. 25min tempo (av HR 158).

Tues, Thur, Sat I do a 20min warmup and a 20min cool down.

Best wishes to all on the thread.

Those Swiss Balls were all the rage in the department two years back. It started with just one person, at the peak I would say 20/60 people were using them, within a few months it was back at zero. Usage looked like a log-normal distribution. There are still a couple of the things parked in empty cubes, never used as far as I can tell. I asked some of them and the issue is that you just can't ever relax. Plus most of the people tried to go from 8+ hours in a conventional chair straight to 8+ hours on a Swiss ball. Yeah, that had to end badly. Reality check: does your therapist actually use a Swiss ball chair, as opposed to a conventional office chair?

In yoga one instructor recommended, with a conventional chair, placing a blanket under the hips to raise the hips higher than the knees and thus retain the natural lumbar curve. She also recommended keeping the legs more open than 90 degrees, which means placing the feet more forward. You might also look up "office yoga". This all makes sense to me but I don't do any of it.

Alan, I should have qualified my comment on then Swiss ball - I introduced it slowly over a period of some weeks. Initially I found it "difficult to relax" however as I became more accustomed and I assume stronger I find no issue. In fact when I revert to my normal chair (which is a good ergonomic office chair and supposedly "set up correctly" for me) I begin to get some shoulder and neck pain.

I am sure the key is simply correct posture and perhaps breaks to get up and down to move any tightness rather than any piece of equipment in particular.

Mon - 90 min. mtn bike ride.

Tue - 90 min. trail run.

Wed - 90 min. mtn bike ride. 50 min. kyak.

Thu - 67 min. trail run.

Fri - Long day of water slides and toboggan rides with the kids and grandkids.

Sat - 90 min. mtn bike ride. 40 min. trail run.

Sun - 2 hour hike with heavy pack and the poles, steep with 50% on rough trails and 50% on "imaginary" trails (aka as bush bashing!).

Pretty basic week for me. Very, very hot conditions until saturday. Temps around 105+ deg F most of week.

Fortunately I was on evening shifts monday, tuesday and was able to get out early before it got hot, probably only around 90 deg. Wed. was a day off so got out early again. Thursday was an early start at work so went out in the afternoon but temps weren't bad, probably barely 100 deg.

A cool evening on saturday was a relief.

Sunday's hike was pretty solid. The off trail stuff was all very steep up and down following dry water courses and rocky reefs. A lot of fallen timber and thick scrub. Only about 10 kms but about 400 metres of accumulated elevation gain. Had about 18 kgs on my back.