50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Happy New Year Master Athletes.

Always great to read thru the postings of shared advice & encouragement. Thank you all for a terrific 2012.

My 2013 goals are to keep the magic two words "be consistent" going in my training & racing plans. Plus a few specific objectives.

1. drink more water - less anything else; except for an earned thru running Oregon or Sanoma County Beer.

2. add 5 mins of core work even if just simple push-ups & sit-ups.

3. do 2500 miles for the year including strategically planned base, strength & speed phases.

Hitting these A-B-C goals will enable me to enjoy another year of 800-1500m racing on tracks around the world. If I'm fit enough to hit 90-94% I will enjoy those West Coast IPAs with good friends like y'all that much more.

May all y'all hit what you aim for this new year.

KP

57 years old..only ran 1500 miles last year...Thart is all my joints could take.

Ran 17 races.

2013..Try and get myself to run 6 days a week. Right now, I cannot..at any pace.

Just 2 weeks at 40 miles really hurt my lower back.

Every other day is perfect, but depressing.

2000 miles for next year is all I can hope for and try and motivate myself to give racing a new meaning.

I am physically unable to prepare properly and it's tough getting up on Saturday or Sunday morning to go unprepared.

Always glad that I go to races afterwards, the endorphin high is just the same and the post race breakfast with some of the guys with the running talk always makes it all worth getting up.

It's just the night before trying to get yourself up to do it.

Happy New Year, everybody!

Thanks for the advice on the HRM. I have no plans to train by HR. Mostly I want to use it in part to establish a physiological snapshot, and then maybe to get myself to run my easy runs easier.

rty, welcome to the thread. Hopefully it will be a source of inspiration and insight for you.

Ken, sorry about your week. I had read about Will...it's tough. Glad to see that Pagano was back on the sidelines Sunday. I sure hope that you can get your kinks worked out and regain your fitness in short order.

Continued condolences to Mo'pak, you definitely have a healthy way of dealing with these things....quite a week!

Lots of good resolutions. KP, I like your goals. I'll add to your's the goal of not doing anything stupid....perhaps that's a corollary to "be consistent." It's so easy for me to run too hard when feeling good, and run myself over the edge before I've even realized it.

I added up my mileage for 2012: managed 2296 total miles (44 mpw average). Pretty happy with that, but I lost a few weeks due to my own stupidity. Hopefully, I've learned a few things, and I'll get that up over 2600 (50 mpw avg) for next year....but smartly. I ran 13 miles (for 2013) today, nice and easy pace with a bunch of my local running buddies (and wouldn't ya know, I forgot to put on my HRM, haha). Even so, great way to start the year off.

Sounds like the flu is going around. Hope you all can get/stay healthy and don't forget to wash your hands often.

Cheers!

Goals:

1. REMAIN INJURY FREE FOR ALL OF 2013 AND BEYOND!!!!

2. REMEMBER GOAL NUMBER ONE.

3. REMEMBER GOAL NUMBER TWO.

Plan:

Run about 30 miles per week with 2 *hard runs , 2 *easy runs and the rest *steady.

Hard is either a long run or a faster than steady pace run. Both count as hard runs. All hard effort days are followed by an easy run day. All hard effort days are followed by at least 2 days of running at less than hard effort.

Easy is less than 70 percent mhr for about 30 minutes

Steady is 70 to 80 percent mhr for up to 45 minutes

Gratitude:

Any day I get to run I am truly thankful.

For me, good news entering 2013 is I'm healthy (knee surgery and bad bout with bronchitis in 2012). Bad news is I am much less fit than when I entered 2012. More due to motivation than the health issues.

I like Charlie's three goals above, so I'll also use them as 1,2,3.

4. Get marathon fit again with consistent training. Fall Marathon goal.

5. Don't let my buddy down. He got into the Western States 100 and I agreed to pace him for 20 miles. June

Condolences mate.

Happy New Year to you and all the folks on this thread.

Past month or so I have been able to consistently get out do some longer runs and some faster runs and my achilles (torn in December 2010 and 3 surgeries later) is holding up. I am hoping to make a return in 2013 to some competitions (turned 50 in August 2012).

Fortunate to have had 2 weeks vacation over the holidays in the Ardeche (France) countryside with access to great hilly trails and usually warm sunny weather for this time of year. I am not recording distance (on purpose as its too depressing whilst I am not fit - but rather time and I do use HR as a decent tool and find it useful).

I hope to participate in this thread as time allows. Thanks for your indulgence and the inspiration!

Week Dec 30-

Sun am 2.10 over hilly trails pm achilles rehab + core

Mon am 80 mins over hilly trails, pm core

Tues pm 4 x 5min efforts (flat), achilles rehab

Wed am 1.45 over hilly trails, pm core

Thurs (back to work) noon "Mona" fartlek (2 x 90sec, 40 x 60sec, 4 x 30sec, 4 x 15sec with same period float recovery) with my squad (I coach a group of locals), pm 35min jog.

Fri. am 45min easy jog

Sat. am 20min tempo (av HR 162), 5min jog + 5 x 60sec hill repeats (90sec jog down rec).

I am still in one piece! So far so good.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts/condolances re my father.

A very casual recovery week for me after last sunday's tough mountain expedition.

Mon - Kyak for 1 hour on the lake.

Tue - Kyak for 1 hour on the lake.

Wed - 2 hours of jogging (about 20k) up on the trails behind home.

Thu - 1 hr 40 min. mtn bike ride inc the climb up Mt Ida. Temps in the high 30s C.

Fri - Trotted along the creek then 2 laps of the golf course then a 4km climb up to the top of the McIvor Range to watch the sunset. All up about 80 mins. Temps in the low 40s about 105 F!!

Sat - 1 hr 15 min mtn bike out through some shady forests, temps again in the 40s. Also a relaxed 30 min session in the kyak.

Sun - 2 hr 30 min hike up on the Ranges with 18kg back pack and the hiking poles.

Thanks for bumping the thread DrT (nice week!) and mo'pak...Sunday comes a lot earlier down-under.

*************************

Week 83

*************************

Salutations for 2013! First week into the New Year was a decent start. I got back up over 50 miles (51) for the first time in over a month with some solid runs and a more determined effort to work on all that “other stuff” I’m so loathe to do. My log reads as such:

Sun: 8.8 easy (7:44 pace, HR 144) + balance

Mon: 6 w/2k in 7:09 (5:45 pace, HR 172) + post-run + static

Tue: 13 easy + balance

Wed: 4 very easy (8:40 pace, HR 130) + post-run + static

Thur: 6 w/5k in 19:40 (6:20 pace, HR 162) + upper + dynamic

Fri: 3.2 easy + post-run + balance

Sat: 10 w/7.5 Fartlek + upper + dynamic + balance

post-run = 120 steps of retro running + 80 sidling (40 each side) jumping jacks

static = 2 sets of (80s plank, 40s side-planks (l&r), 120s bridge, 80s wall sit)

upper = pull-ups to fatigue, push-ups to fatigue, sit-ups to fatigue

dynamic = 15 lateral leg lifts (each side), 15 donkey kicks (each leg), 15 clam-shells (each leg)

balance = all while remaining on one leg: lift knee hold 30s, extend leg forward hold 10s, swing leg backward hold 10s, extend leg sideways hold 10s, bring back to original position hold 30s. Repeat with other leg. Two sets.

This is a lot of information, and I won’t report this much detail each week, but it’s a snapshot to start the New Year. I’ve not included lunges and squats at this point; I’m still leery about their affect on the knee. I figure once the wall sits become steadier, then I’ll do the more dynamic knee bending exercises. I’ll also probably rotate through other dynamic elements as time evolves, and try to introduce some structure to all this. Also, at this point, my “upper” is pretty pathetic: pull-ups fatigue at 5, push-ups at 20, sit-ups at 30.

OK. That should be enough to get started. How’s the start to your New Year?

Go Packers!

well here we are 1 week of 6 /goal race nick beer 10k.

Mon 10:04 miles. cruise intervals

1 mile@ 141/2 mile @149/1 mile @142/2 mile @ 150/1mile@141

pace 6:41/12:37/6:37/12:45/6:44.

tues 5 mile easy

weds 8:40 miles. Hills 7x3mins level 4+5 max out @ 157 h/r (max h/r 164).

thurs 8:01 miles steady

fri 9:20 miles. 3 mile tempo @ 18:49/6x70sec hills.Tempo run @ level 4.Hills @ level 5 max out @ 157.

sat 10:04 steady 70mins @ level 2/3 137 h/r

sun 13 mile hilly steady h/r 137, 1hr 34 min did not feel steady felt rough but a pb for this run.

Weeks total 63:79 miles

It was back to a steady 50 miles in 6 days for me the past week. The legs were feeling pretty good this morning. If tomorrow feels equally good, then Tuesday will be a workout day.

Happy New Year to all. Had an excellent holiday in the sun. Back to 20 degree temps and indoor running.

This week included some easy runs and two tempo runs. Managed about 5:35 for 4 miles Tuesday and 3 miles at 5:38 avg Sat.

Body is pretty happy with me so far in 2013. Can't complain about that!

While I’m at it, a couple other things I meant to remark on.

1) You’ve probably all noticed that racerdb hasn’t posted since club XC. I didn’t mention anything because I thought he might want to post himself, but he told me he’s retiring from racing and was thus going to lay low for a while. After the race I was having a beer with Dave and a couple of his Front Line Racing Team buddies, and they told me that the team is also disbanding. So with that, Dave indicated that he is going to cut way back on his miles and just run local races. Dave, you’ve have a great run! After a healthy rest, I hope you reconsider.

2) I’d also like to share a thought I had about running and balance. You know how you can easily ride a bike that is in motion, but only a small fraction of people ever really learn to balance a bike standing still? The reason for this is that as that the faster you are moving, the easier it is to correct for lateral deviations due to centripetal acceleration’s velocity-squared dependence. Most of this dynamic stability comes from an autocorrecting mechanism from changes in the direction of travel that redirects the center of balance below the wheels (no, it’s not the gyroscopic effect.) Here’s a great article (with fun videos) telling you more than you’d probably ever want to know about dynamic stability of bicycles.

http://bicycle.tudelft.nl/schwab/Bicycle/

The better a cyclist, the smaller these corrections typically are; presumably, the better a cyclist, the slower the speed is for which they can travel straight while remaining balanced on the bike. Although bipedal motion is different, I believe some of the same principles also apply to running. We also autocorrect our direction of travel to remain laterally upright, and this is easier to do the faster we move relative to the ground (note: one big difference is that we also change pivot points by changing from one foot to the other.) The point is, that static stability is not required in order to run. However, the better our static stability, the better sense we have of our center of balance. As such, the energy expended goes less into making lateral corrections and is more into forward motion. And this, I think, is the value of doing stationary stability exercises for runners.

Thoughts?

Week 83: 11 hours 25 minutes in 10 runs, with one race, 2 workouts.

Tue 5K in 21:18 (21st place, 1st M50-59), plus jog to the start line, short cooldown after, then jog home

Fri 22 min "tempo" on the treadmill at 7:30/mile (approximate MP), plus warmup and cooldown. I was planning for 25 minutes but when I got a vague feeling that I should shut down early I went with it.

Sat 2 hr 40 min long run (about 18 miles I guess), with a 9:00/mile pace group for the first 1:45, then by myself for 0:55 at maybe a little faster than 9:00/mile. The last 20 minutes was difficult. A lot of ice on the bike path made this run harder than usual.

The Tuesday 5K was interesting because it didn't go the way my races usually go. For a change I did NOT go out too fast, did NOT get swept along by anybody else's pace! I started at a "fast but relaxed" pace (by feel, no GPS as usual), what I thought was well within my capability (still fast enough to pass dozens of runners who must have lined up wrong) but around the mile 1 marker my breathing started to climb. Somewhere around 1.5 miles I was passed by a guy who beats me every race, no big deal there. By mile 2 I was wheezing pretty bad. Probably a residual effect from the previous week's flu, at least I hope so. Even though my legs felt fresh and I wasn't hurting at all, I had to slow down. I gave a brief surge to shake a girl who tried to cling to me as I passed her. By this time that guy who passed me earlier was receding into the distance, and there was literally no one else in sight in front of me, so I gave a quick look behind to see if that girl was close, then eased off even more. Around 2.75 miles a young dude in Zen mode passed me, and I just let him go because he looked like he could go a lot faster if he wanted. At the finish I didn't exactly kick but I did accelerate quite a bit. Good thing I had something left because a small group of runners just a few seconds back would have passed me otherwise, as I found out after I crossed the line. So I was passed by just 2 runners and even though my time wasn't great I had fun, hurt a little, and did about as well as I could. Can't ask for more.

A notable performance was Frank Zito (62 years) 6th place in 19:48, which is 82.45% according to howardgrubb.co.uk

http://www.premierraces.com/ViewResults.asp?resultsID=1216

Next race is a 15-miler on 17 Feb.

I don't think my new coach is going to work out. I spoke to him on Saturday, which was to be the official start of the training, and he is by his own admission waiting to see if he can get more clients (I estimate counting me he has 6-8 right now) before deciding how to proceed. So while he is "waiting" I am just doing the same schedule as the last two months.

I reestablished the regular routine this week with 6 of 7 running days. However, at only 29 miles the volume was low. I was able to see the PT twice and experienced perhaps the most acute (pain?, discomfort?) I’ve ever felt during a PT manipulation. What I thought was a piriformis issue on the L side is actually the hamstring attachment. We have a plan to work on strength and balance. Every running related injury I’ve had over the years has been on the L side- ITB, PF, and stress fractures. I do swap sides of the road, warm up and cool down at the track in reverse rotation, run on trails at least once a week in an attempt to keep the problems from occurring. I seem to be fluid and smooth with no bio-mechanical quirks. I guess I’m just wired goofy.

2013 Goals:

1) Average 8 hours of sleep each day

2) Race 10 times at distances between 5K and ½ marathon.

3) Improve posture with 2 sessions of weight training and 2 sessions of yoga each week

4) Over 2000 miles for the year

What you are saying about stability on a bicycle hurts my head. Yes, better bicyclists can better remain upright at slower speeds, this is partly skill but mostly due to riding a better quality bicycle with lower mass (requires less effort to move it laterally), better geometry (rake and trail), and lots of other betters (freer bearings for example) that improve handling generally. However, better bicyclists don't typically ride at slower speeds, they ride at faster speeds and thus the gyroscopic effect dominates, same as for motorcycles.

For running there is no gyroscopic effect, so I am not sure why it would be "easier to (remain laterally upright) the faster we move relative to the ground"? Granted a stronger or more skillful runner can do it better, but that doesn't explain why the same individual could do it even better at a faster speed. I'm not saying there isn't an explanation, I just don't take it as a given. From my own experience I think it more likely that very slow AND very fast running (with slow and fast defined uniquely for each runner) are less efficient than the middle range.

As for the benefits of static balance exercises for running: I think runners should work on their weaknesses. If your balance is poor, by all means do balance exercises. We do balance exercises in yoga, similar to what you described in your week. They are challenging and fun, beyond that I don't know.

Skinandbones, sun sounds good this time of year, wife was taling about going to sun next Christmas, maybe we can meet you in AZ.

Alan, LOL about head hurting regarding LucKY2b!

LucKY2b, interesting thoughts, I was thinking I need the opposite, dynamic lateral & diagonal (forward & backward) motion. Trails probably the easiest way to get most of it, not sure about the rest, although bball good candidate but not something I want to try currently. I'd be happy with lateral, diagonal, forward movement. Perhaps too much running on ideal surfaces for me - treadmill, track, & bike path, although I'm convinced all the fast flat 200m track work did me in, even though in lane 6. Never in my past have I done that much small track work.

A difficult week personally as friends of ours tragically lost their son, and another friend of one of our sons received set-back news regarding his cancer. Prayers for broken hearted parents and for a young man needing healing help. Thank you.

Another weird week healthwise for me, I'll have a follow-up blood test this week to check for anything abnormal. Tired, low motivation, but legs feel like they are getting better. There is a low grade flu going around, I'll be glad if that is all I'm dealing with.

All the best to you for 2013!

Week of 12/31

Mon nothing, exhausted

Tue 5 miles on treadmill @ 2.5% grade, down to sub 7:00 pace, felt ok, stretching.

Wed AT, dry needle. 5 miles on treadmill @2.5% grade, down to sub near 6:00 pace (last mile 6:14), felt easy, light stretching & exercise.

Thur massage, stretching, no run

Fri 2+ mile run on treadmill @ 2.5% grade until it broke, was feeling good. Stretching, felt loose.

Sat 5 miles on treadmill @ 2.5% grade, felt ok, down to sub 7:00 pace, exercises, light stretching.

Sun no runs, stretching

Ken, very sorry for the continued tragedies within your circle of friends. Condolences to them all. I wouldn't be surprised if all this emotional load has had an impact on your own training. Best wishes.

Thanks for your comments, Alan. I didn't mean to make anyone's head spin. But I do want to point out, though, that if you follow the links and/or watch the videos, you'll learn that the gyroscopic effect for bicyclists is not a substantial reason for the stability. If it were, I wouldn't be drawing the parallel. The point is that to keep yourself from falling you have to accelerate in the direction of the fall. Falling sideways to the direction of motion allows correction using a centripetal acceleration (a_c =v^2/r), this is why you lean into turns and tracks are banked. But even going straight, you are micro correcting all the time. For example, if you've ever seen bike tracks after a light snow you'll see that the back wheel's track is nice and smooth, while the front wheel's track weaves back and forth. The more in-tune with the center of gravity, the smaller these corrections need to be. Sorry to dump some physics on you guys. I do agree, thought, that regardless of whether it makes you a better runner (which I'm trying to argue it does), it can't possibly hurt to be better in-tune with your sense of balance.

Ken, I think this and balance are related, but still separate issues. But I agree that running on trails is a good way to build lateral strength.

proprioception is most important to reduce injury.

Gotta do dynamic strength through a range of the running motion static stuff just look up isometric

WAG you lose form as you tire and this causes the hip problem.

Had a good week but not nearly as good as the ALF. Some real interesting workouts the 1 2 1 2 1 was pretty stout

My week kinda wordy but what the heck:

Sunday Dec 30th another Deceleration Long Run 15:55/15:55/16:30 + 6 minutes jogging at the end to get to 55 minutes.

Monday Dec 31st ez 32 minutes

Tuesday Jan 01 steady 2 loops 14:47/14:30 apx 26.5 first loop and 27 on second felt good not hard also warmed up with a 5 mile walk hike on powell butted cold sunny and windy day .

Wednesday jan 02 zippo

Thursday Slow Long Run 62 minutes mostly on Powell Butte trails with a couple of miles on the springwater corridor felt really good afterwards at or below 70 per cent mhr except on some of the hills but still not very much effort.Walked 4 miles . Three before the run and the fourth after the run barefooted in just above freezing temp coming down an icey trail with major wind gusts and a spectacular view of Mt.Hood.

Powell Butte will never be Mt. Tabor but the Butte is getting better trails and other goodies to help us swallow the additional 50 million gallon tank(s) they are planting underground.

Friday jan 04 zippo

Saturday Jan 05 EZ 30 minutes just crawling along actually felt good

Sunday Jan 6th back up on powell butte a nice foggy soggy 45 degrees

8 mile hiking around 2:20 minutes guess on distance

8 mile run kinda all over the place lots of FUN

10 minutes uphill hard

7 minutes ez down hill

6:03 mile on springwater mile post 12 to 13 hr about 180 90percent

this was kind of spontaneous cranked it back up at the 12 mile marker felt good so I decided to run up to 12.5 marker was at 3:07 which seemed kind of slow so I kept going same pace to see what the next half (13 mile marker) was gonna be felt a bit better to see 6:03. The heart rate measure was not very accurate as I started the count before starting the watch but effort wise it was HARD but FUN .Also this is about as fast as I have run in 5 years so I am being very very careful not on the toes ect.

so then I jog for a few minutes and crank it back up once back up on the trails.

I just ran hard until I stopped feeling springy then slowed it down just enough to recover not really timing stuff but hit the top in 14 minutes.

Walked down the west side very steep no way am I running this deal.

Then ran kinda hard for another 16 minutes with the short slow down recoveries back up to the top.

Kicked of my shoes and walked a mile back to my truck . I do a mile of barefoot walking after every run and at least a mile of warm up walking before every run.

So as James Brown might say I FEEL GOOD.