This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
This poster seems like one of the crew. Or the runner knows that he is being closely watched.
At this point, any logical person would agree that this run is 99.995% NOT legit.
Please don't let this one review dissuade. These guys are charlatans.
The one thing I am still confused by... will c, you seem mostly legit, but after you visited the "run" didn't you say you still would say it was more than likely legit? I don't understand this... or perhaps I just misinterpreted.
As a non partial thread reader, this has always reaked of scame since very early on.
Be well ya'll ...
There ya go...y'all ask for observers and you got one. Now this poster decides "don't believe the person who observed him actually running it!"
B) While he has been wearing a watch for every run (yes, they were swapped out early on), he is also wearing a Whoop device 24/7. I believe that Whoop will do exhaustive analysis of that data and will be able to show overwhelming evidence of his movements all day every day.
I 1000000% don't believe the smear campaign that he is yanking money from the charitable donations. Show me any evidence that he has ever done that.
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The runner could do a lot to establish the credibility of this effort by: a) immediately turning over his GPS watch data files once this is done for independent analysis (not just an analysis by "Whoop," who appears to be sponsoring or has sponsored this runner in the past), and b) provide an accounting of where the GoFundMe money is paid (with proof of payment).
This runner and his team are not obligated to do either, but providing this information will certainly bolster the legitimacy of this run.
Hard to tell if PED would be a fit for this event. This is event is all about running slow as hell and mixing in walking. But just doing it for a huge amount of the day.
Don't most PED help aerobic capacity? Some of course speed recovery. Steroids.
Epo helps at all paces. Even the easiest pace becomes easier. That said steroids are by far the most available and would be the most beneficial for an event like this. I don’t think that explains what is happening here though.
The most likely scenario is he is run/walking in the morning and then creating a fake gpx file for the afternoons.
Yes I have read the negative split debate. But you said he sped up post nap. As I’ve seen from both posts here and on IG, those naps have been in the 40ish mile range. Excluding last couple of days that leaves 10-20 miles. That does not represent half of the day. That means that some of his improvement in speed has been prenap. Negative splits are first half of distance compared to second half…surely you get that fundamental point. Several has stated that 12-13 mph is not Earth-shattering. it isn’t like he is knocking down 8 min miles over and over again. So, negative splits as a “gotcha” really don’t make a strong basis. Show me anywhere on any of these days where he is knocking down fast miles repeatedly. Aren’t you able to run 12-13 min miles for long distances?
I am asking if it is possible. At no time have I stated that is the reasons for his endurance and pace. I have asked if it is possible, a question you have chosen not to answer.
Perhaps you can also come up with a reason why every time he has company for prolonged periods he slows right down and his heart rate goes up??
Every time he has company for prolonged periods...to my knowledge you have one person who did that (guessing that you are implying prolonged periods as more than a 6 mi segment) and that is WC. Unfortunately he is the further thing from an unbiased observer. He attacked their legitimacy before they even began. And, speaking of that observation, weather elements (wind/rain) sure seemed pretty darned rampant during that period if you saw any of the videos. I am not, repeat not, saying these are reasons for the higher HR, but was he wearing the watch tighter on his wrist? I don't know. But, I believe the Whoop data could validate it. And, 'slows down'...he STILL did 40-50 miles those days even with a ton of walking. So Every time is really 1 time/1 person I don't have the answers, but neither does anyone else on this feed. WC's stats and opinions are not facts.
Interesting that neither the ACS or Macmillan Cancer feature him on any of their social feeds. You'd think that if he was trying to raise money for charity (rather than to cover costs) they'd be on at the charities to drum up support for such an incredible feat...but maybe the engagement with the charities is low for a reason...
Supposedly a crew that has a carefully thought out diet and sleep enhancement programs, yet have a few beers, which if nucalm actually did anything for your sleep as claimed, the beer would have the opposite effect.
Originally I thought the whole, if you want to run with WG, contact the crew upfront was plausible as a lot to organize and don't want a circus, now we have the mornings only line. Juxtapose this with hardestgeezer (I didn't choose his moniker) currently running across africa at around 30k a day with all sorts of townsfolk joining him unannounced.
Now the poor guy can't have a beer at the end of a 50-60 mile day without being scrutinized? LIvory was wrong in his recall of my statement on when to run with him. It was not mornings-only. The preference was early afternoons. And, what's wrong with his crew wanting to limit the time others. I know when I ran with him, we talked non-stop. That isn't easy to do and takes unneeded energy away from the rest of the day. But, any one anytime could have gone to observe him. As others have said, it's a free country.
This poster seems like one of the crew. Or the runner knows that he is being closely watched.
At this point, any logical person would agree that this run is 99.995% NOT legit.
Please don't let this one review dissuade. These guys are charlatans.
The one thing I am still confused by... will c, you seem mostly legit, but after you visited the "run" didn't you say you still would say it was more than likely legit? I don't understand this... or perhaps I just misinterpreted.
As a non partial thread reader, this has always reaked of scame since very early on.
Be well ya'll ...
Hi, yes, a complete misinterpretation, never said that. I put out a diplomatic peace giving them a chance to behave, but that was it. Nothing on my observation told me this was real, and ever since I left, there has been total chaos with the data.
Whatever, whatever, comes out of this, these 10 things can't be denied:
1) RB and WG eschewed a tracker for no good reason, when most everyone else wears them, and a Hall of Fame US ultrarunner has said that alone means, "all bets are off."
2) HR monitors pick up a credible pulse on a runner circa 99% of the time, and let no man say otherwise - and if they do they're in the 1%.
3) WG and RBs hearts work 99%+ of the time outside of these multiday fundraising events.
4) But during them, for 14,000k, over 5 events, 6+ watches, and two different runners, they only work 10% of the time. There is no debate about that, the debate is as to why. The grave fear is that RB and WG are tampering with their watches during these events. And if tampering has ever occurred, that is grossly untoward, and a hostile act toward the noble sport of distance running - much of which relies on the "Honours Code".
5) RB and WG have never once commented or tried to address their filthy HR data in these 14,000k and 4 years. Their intellectual and emotional curiousity about the issue has been zero; even though a human pulse for a professional endurance runner is a fascinating and critical piece of data. It tells onlookers that the runner is actually doing it, and how hard they're working, and it gives the athlete huge insight into how things are going, whether they need to back off... whether they're getting sick, etc etc.
6) Balenger doesn't record heart rate, maps or splits for his runs out here, but nobody knows why - he didn't for his Speed project to Vegas either, which is riddled with inconsistencies and strange moments. He blocked me on Strava the moment I started looking into his inexplicably bizarre Transcon. Check it out for yourself [March 2019], it's a nonsense, and has nigh on identical modus operandi to this. He then hooked up with WG and they've been inseparable ever since, and WGs Jogle a few months later is pure farce.
7) The chances that WG's heart will return to normal after this event is over 99%. We know this because it works perfectly for the hundreds of runs he has done outside of these events since 2019.
8) It is never too hard to find really weird stuff going on with these two's other runs either: Caught watch-sharing at RB's Transcon the very first time I clicked on another runner. Caught riding at Jogle the very first time I saw a strange kink in the road. A flurry of 2 minute Ks at RBs TSP. His Central Park run is a huge "tech fail", if you want to call it that, and more importantly some 4 hours up on what you would expect for him. 100 miles in hilly Central Park in 16:39 [18:07 elapsed] is ludicrously quick for a runner who did 87 miles in 33 hours, and 27 hours for a 100 miles in the same year.
9) The acute hostility, arrogance, rampant profiteering, lifestyle, and sheer disrespect these two show for running is far unlike anything I've seen in my 40 years in the sport. WGs big speech to camera the other day that other runners and their achievements are nothing to him because he's just done 121 marathons was a disgrace, as was his assault on Bruce Tulloh's legacy and his absolute cast iron certainty that he would demolish Bruce even though his MDS and other running pointed to a ca. 80 day Transcon. Bruce's daughter wrote to say she was keeping all this from his widow as she would find it far too upsetting.
10) As we now know the research of RB and WG was a sham and a downright lie. The British/English record was 53 not 64 days, but they knew darn well they could never go for that as they would simply have been laughed at from the outset. When this error was highlighted about 3 weeks in, NOT ONCE have they acknowledged the blunder, apologised for it, or corrected the media. News articles are now being released, saying WG is about to become the fastest Brit. It's a moral outrage - you are seeing skulduggery right before your eyes.
For all those who believe in the classic, historic ideals of running, dating back centuries, I urge you all to give these potty-mouthed, grasping, shady opportunists a very hard time in the coming years. They hide behind charity and Mandy's legacy as a means of turning their backs on the workplace and making wonderful living and a life of adventure in the outdoors. WG is to now go and live the life of an international playboy in 12 nations all over the world for the next 12 months, from his profits off these runs and his generous sponsorships and Gofundme raising. They're not obliged to hand one penny of their Go Fund Me to charity if they don't want to. He notes that when working as a model he was broke and living off credit. He's not broke any more.
In terms of their social media fans versus the relatively small community of serious runners who care about what is at stake here, this is a David versus Goliath conflict, and WG and RB know this, and it's why they laugh at us and viciously ridicule me in their videos and other media.
Well, let me remind them: David won.
1) Most is not all. So, one TC HOG's word is good, but the King of TC's word is not...why, because he doesn't agree with your opinions?
2) I sure hope you have evidence to back up your tampering claims...those are rather dangerous to slander. Then, real lawyers get involved, not us arm-chair ones
3) They don't have to address it to you, particularly when you came in attacking their efforts before they even began.
4) Does every person post their Strava maps and all details? I know for a fact that each user has a choice to turn off certain details for privacy. Is he not allowed any privacy now? Boy, you love to say that he blocked you on Strava. So what?
5) Do you have his Whoop data to validate against the Strava data? You may look very, very foolish if/when a report comes out showing all of your stats to be bad. Or, is Whoop now a snake-oil product too?
6) Caught watch sharing? Your 1 single example of that was with someone who literally said they were out running with him. Strava has a little checkbox that allows you to include another runner on yours. Is it a crime to check a box to share that data?
7) The hostility towards you, while not the way I would have handled it, is actually reasonable. In the same video you use are your calling card as the victim you are seem telling them they are a fraud. Are you saying they should have just taken it and been nice? They aren't allowed to be angry for you calling them a fraud? I agree that line was a bit harsh, but everyone has their own choice of words to use.
8) Profiteering? Because they have sponsors? And saying he is going for the record as the fastest Brit to run across the US is a marketing line. There is no record for it. Even Bruce's record isn't a record because there is only 1 record...fastest period, and that is PK. Bold statements get sponsors.
9) Up until those stated that Bruce's record wasn't really the record, you kept claiming that it was. So, you were lying as well...or your research was poor. You try to sweep that under the rug. Did you apologize and say you were wrong? Is wrong a word in your vocabulary?
10) Why don't you wait until the donation checks are made before you claim fraud? Oh wait, didn't you already contact Scotland Yard? You really think they aren't going to make a big publicity push with the donations being made. I can see the monstrous checks already!
Your name is Will, not David. You are not the little guy who conquered the giant, just a WG and RB are the giant. You said long long long ago that you were a reporter. A reporter is supposed to be unbiased and follow the story, not be the story. You have attempted to insert yourself as the story.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. It’s fascinating how people can perceive the same things so very differently. Some thoughts on what you’ve written:
You’re very generous to brush off his lies and exaggerations as mere “marketing lines.”
Waiting until the end to provide better evidence seems messed up when he’s been asking for money and attention the entire time.
Waiting until the end to provide better evidence also raises questions about manipulation of data.
It’s hard to find/monitor him and catch him in the act of cheating if he’s not wearing a tracker. Super shady.
Pushing Nu Calm is a major issue for me. Yes, it’s his job to push it now that they are sponsoring him, but he has a choice in who he accepts as a sponsor, just as we have a choice in where we work. I would never work for a company whose products and practices didn’t align with my values. The products an athlete or celebrity endorses says a lot about them as a person. His promotion of what nearly all of us agree is a snake oil product says a lot about his integrity, or lack thereof.
So you don’t care if he’s cheating. That’s fine, but very strange that you are so invested in “not caring”.
I didn’t say I don’t care, but I think we’re completely confusing “impressive” with “abnormal”. The likes of Sandra Villines and Jenny Hoffman can throw him in the dust on a transcon run, and they’re 3:20-3:30 marathoners. Yes, impressive to do 50 miles a day, but they did far more. I’m sure there are 2:20 marathoners who would give up after a few days of doing 50 miles a day, depending on how they approached it. But at the end of the day, if you run it slow with a lot of walking mixed in, it’s not an abnormal result. Sure, it gets praised since the n-size is tiny of people doing these attempts. If you gave all the finishers of Western States 100 the opportunity to do what he’s doing (50ish miles a day), probably 80% could do it. If they had to average 70 miles, maybe 2-3% would. If you can walk half the day, you’re really only “running” a marathon a day. Shoot, I run plenty of 30 mile days with a full time job. Did 32 yesterday, and I’m not in superhuman shape by any means right now.
Glad you came back on, albeit but for a moment, to share your thoughts. Gosh, I just don't know if you know anything about this sort of thing 😂😁
Lot of questions to be asked / answered, and no satisfying answers so far, but just a cursory glance at the HRs from another ongoing ultra () sees them sat in the low 110s/120s ().
Doesn't this somewhat muddy WillVLC's "never seen before on any other Strava ultra run" argument? Another example of the same low HR phenomenon - this one in much hotter conditions (in which you would expect greater cardiac drift).
In WG's case, I wouldn't be surprised if PEDs were involved - not sure if this has been mentioned? Increased hematocrit from EPO would thicken the blood (and slow HR), something that could worsen over the course of a day as the athlete becomes dehydrated. The increased O2 carrying capacity of the blood would also facilitate a low HR at the already incredibly low intensity exercise that's being presented (as others have said - this is quick by any measure).
Not out of the realms of possibility that someone who sells their image for a living would be willing to use PEDs to improve chances of completing events that they use for sponsorship / $ chasing.
Yes, all covered, not remotely comparable. Russ took 10:22 over 45k yesterday, with perfect rising data from 115 to 130. He is taking it very, very steady and his 119bpm is fine for that level of caution.
I'm looking for people running 6 min Ks at 105s for 100k. [When we have Kostelnick doing days at 165-170+ as I showed yesterday, on back to back days].
If you want to put it down to him being on drugs, or superhuman, fine, but remember normally this guy has some of the highest HR on the planet - stuff like hitting 189 at London, so this is purely a "tech fail vs tampering" argument.
My feeling is that tampering is leading tech fail on this board 97-3. On page 89 for instance, WC supporters were 226-2 up on WG supporters in the arrows.
Maybe I'm just a brilliant arguer? I don't think so... I'm just highlighting 4+ years and 14,000k of anomalies with these two [and their nondescript running elsewhere], and my opposition has Sneakers, PK, 50+, Recruiter in their ranks, all pretty fierce debaters.
As the statistician you are, I am still surprised you are yet again using up/down arrows as your evidence. Many have given up even reading these pages because they either have gotten blasted for their opinion or gave up trying to show reason how this could be valid.
We all have our opinions. And, some of us, myself included, are not great debaters but perhaps a little stubborn. I'm not in anyone's ranks. I have made up my very own opinions and will continue to discuss them.
5) Do you have his Whoop data to validate against the Strava data? You may look very, very foolish if/when a report comes out showing all of your stats to be bad. Or, is Whoop now a snake-oil product too?
Whoop does not appear to be an independent third party, so I have a difficult time trusting any analysis done by the company.
I've published long and clear papers - about a dozen on them - with crystal clear insight into the 10% clean data [Freudian slip by you there with the 90], but all the runs on Strava are there anyway. The essays are all on here, or else, the main big one from a fortnight ago is still on the Jogle page.
Yesterday, 60 miles of pure rubbish. Stick it on the tab. You want a data point? Just look at that, and then go back through their last 14,000k of these things. Someone checked out the 48/30 yesterday and they were aghast.
Of course he didn't cheat in front of me, but he presented as a completely opposite runner to that of Strava, which I've written about at considerable length. But you just say: 'there you go, not cheating.'
And to call it a smear campaign when I question runners who refuse to be tracked or file a human pulse is pretty outrageous. At what depths do people need to plumb before we can raise the flag of concern?
Ok, farewell if this is it for you.
It is truly rude and classless of you to summarily attempt to dismiss PK, one of the few in this entire thread that have actually run a TC...oh wait, more than once. Didn't you say "goodbye" to this thread many many pages ago? Why did you come back? Because no one was commenting on your FB page?
Ultimately Will C has given life to some ridiculous record that no one in the USA crossers or ultrarunning community will acknowledge, whether it’s 53 or 64 days. I guess I’ll just go for the American JOGLE record lol no thanks.
PK, this is a bizarre claim. It's quite obviously Will Goodge and Robbie Balanger that are the ones who have 'given life to some ridiculous record that no one in the USA crossers community will acknowledge'. They are the ones that plastered 'Fastest Englishman to cross America' across their van before the run even started, and made big claims about this record in the media. So how you can blame Will C for this is quite frankly ridiculous.
It.Is.A.Marketing line. Big bold statements bring in sponsors. It is really that simple.
Tomorrow I could go out and say that I'm attempting to become the fastest left-handed, brown haired recruiter and I am going to run 13.75348960394853025 miles.
B) While he has been wearing a watch for every run (yes, they were swapped out early on), he is also wearing a Whoop device 24/7. I believe that Whoop will do exhaustive analysis of that data and will be able to show overwhelming evidence of his movements all day every day.
I 1000000% don't believe the smear campaign that he is yanking money from the charitable donations. Show me any evidence that he has ever done that.
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The runner could do a lot to establish the credibility of this effort by: a) immediately turning over his GPS watch data files once this is done for independent analysis (not just an analysis by "Whoop," who appears to be sponsoring or has sponsored this runner in the past), and b) provide an accounting of where the GoFundMe money is paid (with proof of payment).
This runner and his team are not obligated to do either, but providing this information will certainly bolster the legitimacy of this run.
Does anyone happen to know the easiest way to get strava data from a public athlete (that isn't yourself)?
Quick check on the API seems like it limits you to accounts that you can authorise it for.
I'm sooort of interested in poking around the data myself but to be honest if it's gotta be manually scraped from each activity I just don't have time.
I've published long and clear papers - about a dozen on them - with crystal clear insight into the 10% clean data [Freudian slip by you there with the 90], but all the runs on Strava are there anyway. The essays are all on here, or else, the main big one from a fortnight ago is still on the Jogle page.
You publish toilet paper. I've read your garbage and you have falsified and faked numbers in everything you write with your claims of having analyzed the entirety of Strava files, which you do not have the skills to do. The only person faking things in this whole transcon is Will Cockerell.
You do seem to have a very intimate knowledge of WG's schedule Recruiter, one could almost believe you had a vested interest in all this? (You are certainly his staunchest defender - they really should put you on the payroll, you're doing a better job than his potty mouthed crew). Each day where the crew published footage of him running/walking for long spells in company WG's stats showed shorted distance, higher heart rate and slower paces. There has been considerably worse weather than the weather when WC was out there and it hasn't had the same impact.
I suspect the crew will just parade a long list of statements from insta fans who all, made an appointment to run with WG. and that Coros watch data will no doubt remain hidden forever because if they suddenly start claiming that the Coros/Strava heart rate data is all wrong then I suspect Coros might have something to say about it, particularly if they wheel out some higher heart rate data from a device provided by their sponsors.
Sadly they have now made entirely sure that whether he did or he didn't do it, there will always be doubts - and not just over the heartrate data. All of this could easily have been avoided by providing clear tracking data ON the runner, addressing the HR questions early on and by not suddenly changing the route.
I'm not even going to bother about the missing 3 miles from day 15/16 because I can actually forgive him forgetting to start his watch - but he should have been wearing 2!! A lifestyle tracker doesn't really cut it.
I sincerely hope WG's crew appreciate your efforts here!!
Agreed. Can we also agree on standards of proof for those who claim to have witnessed his running? Anyone can come on here and claim they saw him running. How do we know they’re telling the truth?
If Goodge won’t adhere to any norms of tracking, at least our witnesses can. I would think at minimum witnesses should provide at least one photo. Multiple photos and video preferred.
Video is from when I saw him 5/24 at 10:34. Pic is from when I saw him at 3:16. And to clarify, his crew said no to me joining to run with him, and I left it at that. Didn’t say I’d stop by or where. I just saw their route and found them on it.
Many have given up even reading these pages because they either have gotten blasted for their opinion or gave up trying to show reason how this could be valid.
You claimed that you didn't try and pass of opinions as facts. But here you go again, passing exactly the same opinion about why support for Goodge has dried up, and addressing it in the form of a fact.
You have no idea why support for Goodge dried up. It could quite easily be because of all the red flags surrounding this run, his believers just stopped believing after they saw the mounting evidence.
And you're claim that Will G is biased is bullsh*it. We all started out as neutral, but became sceptics because of the evidence that made this run look dodgy. And these red flags did start before the run, with audacious claims that seem well beyond the capabilities of someone with a mediocre running pedigree.