Thorough debunking of the memo by Seth Abramson here:
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560/photo/1
Thorough debunking of the memo by Seth Abramson here:
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560/photo/1
nontrumper wrote:
I realize I'm wasting my time, but my god, are you really this dumb?!?!?
What are there... about 17 US intelligence agencies. ALL agree that Russia interfered with our election. So, do you honestly believe that all 17 decided to be pro-Democrat and ambush Trump?? Have you ever considered how crazy you sound?
Plus, ALL of our allies have signal intelligence showing Russia meddling in our election. Hell, it was our allies intelligence that started the investigation... well before the Dossier.
Let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
Exactly! Do NOT let facts get in the way. That would be unTrumpian!
Flagpole wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
We shall see.
I should be clear about some things here...as the DOJ has an agreement that sitting presidents can't be indicted (which seems like a ridiculous thing to me), an INDICTMENT by Mueller is not likely while Trump is still President. It is most likely that obstruction of justice and money laundering will be found by Mueller, presented to Congress, and then Congress makes the determination about what happens to Trump. Again, it will be clear that he is guilty of obstruction and money laundering, and with how that all comes out, the House will have no choice but to vote to impeach. I believe the evidence will be strong enough that the Senate will convict and he will be removed from office, or he will resign before that happens.
Once he is out of office, who knows what will happen. If Pence isn't affected, I expect him to pardon Trump. State charges are still possible against Trump at that point.
He is such a bad person. It is only just if some bad sh!t happens to him (all legal of course).
Just adding to this long chain here- Trump isn't going anywhere unless the dems sweep House and Senate. If they stay Republican it will be status quo, if not draconian crackdowns on freedom of the press, and continued roll back of civil liberties, public health, and the environment.
If one chamber of Congress swings it'll be gridlock for two more years and most policies that have been established will continue. But overall crappy time like the final two years of recent past presidents.
Only if both chambers go dem, and if Mueller investigation shows something would Trump be forced to resign. And even then 60% he stays and lumbers out scott free.
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
1.) The propaganda admits that the FBI's Trump probe began with information received due to drunk Papadopolous. This one FISA application happened months after the probe was started.
Although I agree the memo is nothing more than propaganda, I've read that the probe began before Papadopoulos' conservation with the Australian spy. Other countries had already shared intelligence. Netherlands, Estonia, etc.
nontrumper wrote:
There seems to be a number of constitutional lawyers that do think a sitting president can be indicted, but not prosecuted. The indictments could be the basis for impeachment. I've heard rumblings that there are already sealed indictments for Trump (RICO charges).
It's going to be very rocky over the next few months, but I think we will learn A LOT about the direction of the investigation in the next few months. Although a lot has happened in the last 12 months, I think it's going to move very fast in the coming weeks.
Yep...there is definitely debate about that. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here. I want my predictions to be based on logic and evidence and reality, not hopes and dreams, and I think they are.
When looking at extremes, I think it is more likely that Trump is charged to the teeth with crimes rather than the other extreme where he walks away unscathed.
Noon wrote:
Thorough debunking of the memo by Seth Abramson here:
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560/photo/1
Pretty damning rebuttal. Not surprising. No one associated with Trump or defending Trump has not proven to be smart yet.
Flagpole wrote:
nontrumper wrote:
There seems to be a number of constitutional lawyers that do think a sitting president can be indicted, but not prosecuted. The indictments could be the basis for impeachment. I've heard rumblings that there are already sealed indictments for Trump (RICO charges).
It's going to be very rocky over the next few months, but I think we will learn A LOT about the direction of the investigation in the next few months. Although a lot has happened in the last 12 months, I think it's going to move very fast in the coming weeks.
Yep...there is definitely debate about that. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here. I want my predictions to be based on logic and evidence and reality, not hopes and dreams, and I think they are.
When looking at extremes, I think it is more likely that Trump is charged to the teeth with crimes rather than the other extreme where he walks away unscathed.
Trump would not be exempt from prosecution for acts that occurred before becoming president. And likely any act he commits that have nothing to do with being president—an act such as diverting money to himself from treasury coffers. Being president only lets him be exempt from prosecution for acts related to carrying out the job—he couldn't be prosecuted for acts such a bombing a foreign country after starting a war with it.
Flagpole wrote:
Noon wrote:
Thorough debunking of the memo by Seth Abramson here:
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/959494066840002560/photo/1Pretty damning rebuttal. Not surprising. No one associated with Trump or defending Trump has not proven to be smart yet.
Umm...you know what I meant to write.
Flagpole wrote:
Pretty damning rebuttal. Not surprising. No one associated with Trump or defending Trump has not proven to be smart yet.
Which will not stop Trump from claiming he is "justified" in firing Mueller, and then most of the heads of the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies. Nunes is a willing dupe, willing to fall on his sword, to give Trump a reason to conduct firings at will. Nunes is Trump's Himmler.
Fire the FBI wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Pretty damning rebuttal. Not surprising. No one associated with Trump or defending Trump has not proven to be smart yet.
Which will not stop Trump from claiming he is "justified" in firing Mueller, and then most of the heads of the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies. Nunes is a willing dupe, willing to fall on his sword, to give Trump a reason to conduct firings at will. Nunes is Trump's Himmler.
But, but, but . . . Hillary!
Op one time wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
I should be clear about some things here...as the DOJ has an agreement that sitting presidents can't be indicted (which seems like a ridiculous thing to me), an INDICTMENT by Mueller is not likely while Trump is still President. It is most likely that obstruction of justice and money laundering will be found by Mueller, presented to Congress, and then Congress makes the determination about what happens to Trump. Again, it will be clear that he is guilty of obstruction and money laundering, and with how that all comes out, the House will have no choice but to vote to impeach. I believe the evidence will be strong enough that the Senate will convict and he will be removed from office, or he will resign before that happens.
Once he is out of office, who knows what will happen. If Pence isn't affected, I expect him to pardon Trump. State charges are still possible against Trump at that point.
He is such a bad person. It is only just if some bad sh!t happens to him (all legal of course).
Just adding to this long chain here- Trump isn't going anywhere unless the dems sweep House and Senate. If they stay Republican it will be status quo, if not draconian crackdowns on freedom of the press, and continued roll back of civil liberties, public health, and the environment.
If one chamber of Congress swings it'll be gridlock for two more years and most policies that have been established will continue. But overall crappy time like the final two years of recent past presidents.
Only if both chambers go dem, and if Mueller investigation shows something would Trump be forced to resign. And even then 60% he stays and lumbers out scott free.
I have to believe that most people are ultimately good people, so even if the Democrats don't take over the House and the Senate, if and when Mueller provides damning evidence, I can't believe that they can stand for it. I may being a bit naive here, but I really hope not (to be clear, any naivete would have to do with expecting the good to be expressed in people, not my understanding of the situation or what Democrats may have done, etc.). Good should prevail. Even IF their reason is to protect themselves politically rather than perform a noble act, allowing a President to continue who has been shown to obstruct justice, money launder (especially considering the countries involved) and conspire (again, I think big evidence here, but perhaps not enough to make a charge) would be ridiculous and political suicide.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
I agree with Flagpole here. When the evidence comes pouring out, I don't think the Republicans will have a choice but to proceed with impeachment hearings. And I'm hopeful that Mueller is close to sharing enough to make it obvious to Congress. Much like Nixon. It took a while, then it was tsunami.
Mueller won't do anything to jeopardize his investigation, but if anything Nunes' 'memo' will only main it rain on Trump and company sooner than later.
Gary you're so easy.
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Prosecuted Trump wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Yep...there is definitely debate about that. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here. I want my predictions to be based on logic and evidence and reality, not hopes and dreams, and I think they are.
When looking at extremes, I think it is more likely that Trump is charged to the teeth with crimes rather than the other extreme where he walks away unscathed.
Trump would not be exempt from prosecution for acts that occurred before becoming president. And likely any act he commits that have nothing to do with being president—an act such as diverting money to himself from treasury coffers. Being president only lets him be exempt from prosecution for acts related to carrying out the job—he couldn't be prosecuted for acts such a bombing a foreign country after starting a war with it.
That's not the legal opinion of the DOJ as far as I understand it. I think that legal opinion is crazy, but that is it for now. I mean, if he strangled a staffer to death, surely he could be indicted for murder. I assume that if Mueller DOES indict him that it will go to the Supreme Court quickly.
From here -
http://www.newsweek.com/can-trump-be-indicted-are-sitting-presidents-immune-prosecution-650484"The regulations that govern Mr. Mueller require him to follow the Department of Justice “rules and policies.” The OLC’s opinions are “controlling” on the Executive, so this regulatory independent counsel, unlike a statutory independent counsel or the Watergate regulatory counsel, cannot indict a sitting president, which is what my 1998 Opinion Letter concluded."
Mueller appears to be a rule follower, so even if he doesn't like it, he might not challenge the DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president. We shall see.
Dow down 665 points today.
THANKS TRUMP!
I think releasing the memo will end up backfiring for Nunes and Trump and Hannity.
Trey Gowdy today:
"As I have said repeatedly, I also remain 100 percent confident in Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The contents of this memo do not - in any way - discredit his investigation."
Jeff Sessions on Rosenstein and Brand:
"represent the kind of quality and leadership that we want in the department."
John McCain today:
"The latest attacks against the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests ― no party’s, no President’s, only Putin’s. The American people deserve to know all the facts surrounding Russia’s ongoing efforts to subvert our democracy, which is why Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation must proceed unimpeded. Our nation’s elected officials, including the president, must stop looking at this investigation through the lens of politics and manufacturing political sideshows. If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him."
Rick Wilson, GOP strategist:
"Wow. This Nune memo is even less impressive than I thought. All these mouth-breathing idiots who called this worse than Watergate just got clowned."
Another gem:
Bill Kristol (conservative):
"When the history of Trump’s presidency (and impeachment?) is written, the Nunes memo will be a minor footnote. When the history of the (temporary?) degradation of the Republican Party is written, the Nunes memo will be a significant moment."
Kinda their motto, isn't it?
Protesting the abuses of law enforcement by kneeling during the anthem? That's wrong. It's disrespectful to the police and to the troops!
Accusing the FBI of being traitors to the country? That's how you protest law enforcement without being disrespectful!
Flagpole wrote:
Dow down 665 points today.
THANKS TRUMP!
Worst since Obama was POTUS.
Yes. It was that bad!