DiscoGary wrote:
The frenzy to muddy the waters surrounding this memo are proof of how much damage it must do to Democrats. They are feeding spin to their Dem base at a rate that I have never seen before.
It must be really, really, really bad.
But don't count on Democrats ever seeing the problem or believing that any corruption existed on this issue. They are isolated and protected by their media from ever having to confront the possibility that their people are the bad guys.
If there is corruption that is found to be true based on this memo (I might have to wait until it is all independently investigated to know for sure), then I will admit it. Corruption of one thing doesn't mean another thing (Trump) isn't also guilty of corruption.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is dead.
Flagpole wrote:
The Dow is now below 26,000.
Thanks a lot Trump!
You do realize that the markets are aggressively overextended with all the big names that reported earnings this week (Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Visa, Boeing, US Steel, etc.) Great time for a "sell the news" cool down. Unless Trump controls the quarterly earning date reporting schedules, you're talking nonsense. There was also a jobs report released this morning, which was better than expected. The economy is fine.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/january-2018-jobs-report-analysisFlagpole wrote:
A criminal like that [Trump] should know better than to run for President.
But the financial end game is worth it to Trump. Estimates are he made at least $1 BILLION from the government in his first year. Not bad for a guy forgoing a salary—of course he will deduct that "given away" salary as a tax deductible gift to the USA.
fact checkerz wrote:
Who has he paid off?
Via the Koch Bros, Ryan to the tune of $500,000 just for getting the gift to the rich bill passed through the house. . . . Other minion's money is the Way of the Trump.
Bearer of Bad News wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Mueller IS coming, and the clown IS done.
Hopefully Trumpers will talk about finding a President who actually DOES put America first and not Russia first or him- or herself first.
Sarah Sanders said it herself -- "When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing." She was right.
Here is the thing that Trumpers continue to not either understand or accept...the fact that someone somewhere might be corrupt does NOT absolve Trump and his associates of any corruption. IF corruption in the FBI, either with individuals or more widespread, is discovered, then heads should roll.
The investigation of Trump though should continue, because there is too much evidence at this point that he has done something bad. You don't attack the intelligence agencies, especially when they are headed by people you chose, if you are innocent. You don't obstruct justice if you are innocent. Trump didn't just get unlucky with those criminals he surrounded himself with. Birds of a feather flock together.
I have never in my life seen such a group of people in such deep denial about something as Trumpers are about Trump. Seriously. He has lied to you and he continues to lie to you. He and his staff have had an untold insane amount of contact with Russians (and lets remember that Russia is not friendly to the US). Robert Gates has now turned, so he joins Flynn and Papadapolous as ones we know who are now cooperating with Mueller. There is no way out for Trump. Attacking the FBI is desperation. You wanted Trump to be your champion, but he is not. He is clearly only out for himself and MAYBE his family members, but I'm not even sure he gives a crap about them.
Pundits are continuing to talk about what political damage Trump might do to himself if he does this or that. Trump is way beyond thinking about that...he is scared to death that he will be charged with big crimes and either have to pay huge fines that will make him no longer wealthy, or that he will face prison time. He doesn't want the embarrassment of having to resign or being impeached and removed, but he could live with that as long as he's still wealthy after all this and doesn't have to go to prison.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
I hate to break it to you, but here is how it will go down.
Mueller will carry on for another 9-10 months. He will release his findings. There may be a little here, a little there. Some Trump people will be implicated, but there won't be enough evidence to convict anyone of a crime. There will be enough distance between Trump and any evidence that does come out in the findings that he can claim plausible deniabiilty.
That's how it's going to end up. Anyone is a fool to think otherwise.
Doubt it.
Obstruction of Justice appears extremely likely. If he's innocent of conspiracy, it was foolish of him to do this.
Money Laundering appears extremely likely.
If he's interviewed (and he should be), Perjury appears extremely likely.
Conspiracy appears not as likely but still within the realm of possibility.
A little here? A little there?
Imagine if you were Trump. You have four people associated with you who have either been indicted or pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI - four of them are cooperating with Mueller. You have a fifth who quit the Trump team because he saw what he believed was obstruction of justice (and he's a lawyer). You have another guy (Carter Page) who had conversations recorded and who hasn't been brought in yet. Is HE cooperating? You have an investigation that is continuing long after your own counsel told you it would be over. You have at least 28 people associated with you who have been interviewed with the expressed intent to discover if you did anything illegal. You know about yourself that you have done illegal and shady things in your life for decades. Would YOU be concerned about your future?
Obstruction of justice and Money Laundering can carry felony convictions. Even if conspiracy is not proven, those are bad things. His lifestyle at a minimum is at risk.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
Wall Street guy wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
The Dow is now below 26,000.
Thanks a lot Trump!
You do realize that the markets are aggressively overextended with all the big names that reported earnings this week (Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Visa, Boeing, US Steel, etc.) Great time for a "sell the news" cool down. Unless Trump controls the quarterly earning date reporting schedules, you're talking nonsense. There was also a jobs report released this morning, which was better than expected. The economy is fine.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/january-2018-jobs-report-analysis
I know how it all works. Just ribbing Trump a bit. If he takes all the credit for a rising stock market, then he needs to take the blame when it drops.
Thanks a lot TRUMP!
DiscoGary wrote:
The Memo:
https://www.axios.com/read-nunes-memo-fbi-doj-fisa-mueller-7fb8bcb7-1f18-4294-aa95-628d2f67bcdf.html
Will just be one of the things eventually listed on the milestones timeline that we will see when this is all over and Trump is ousted OR not re-elected and is being punished in some fashion.
Looks like John Kasich is going to run for the Republican nomination against Trump. You Republicans would do well to support him...he is reasonable, moderate, and a decent man. Depending on who the Democrats run, I might even vote for him.
Flagpole wrote:
Bearer of Bad News wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but here is how it will go down.
Mueller will carry on for another 9-10 months. He will release his findings. There may be a little here, a little there. Some Trump people will be implicated, but there won't be enough evidence to convict anyone of a crime. There will be enough distance between Trump and any evidence that does come out in the findings that he can claim plausible deniabiilty.
That's how it's going to end up. Anyone is a fool to think otherwise.
Doubt it.
Obstruction of Justice appears extremely likely. If he's innocent of conspiracy, it was foolish of him to do this.
Money Laundering appears extremely likely.
If he's interviewed (and he should be), Perjury appears extremely likely.
Conspiracy appears not as likely but still within the realm of possibility.
A little here? A little there?
Imagine if you were Trump. You have four people associated with you who have either been indicted or pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI - four of them are cooperating with Mueller. You have a fifth who quit the Trump team because he saw what he believed was obstruction of justice (and he's a lawyer). You have another guy (Carter Page) who had conversations recorded and who hasn't been brought in yet. Is HE cooperating? You have an investigation that is continuing long after your own counsel told you it would be over. You have at least 28 people associated with you who have been interviewed with the expressed intent to discover if you did anything illegal. You know about yourself that you have done illegal and shady things in your life for decades. Would YOU be concerned about your future?
Obstruction of justice and Money Laundering can carry felony convictions. Even if conspiracy is not proven, those are bad things. His lifestyle at a minimum is at risk.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
I also dislike Trump but Bearer of Bad News is right. This will go on into 2019, and it looks like a few people (Flynn, Manafort, Page) will get hit up with indictments but I doubt it reaches all the way to the top (it probably does, but the evidence might just not be there). Trump will end his presidency in 2020 with the same approval rating he has now : 35% i.e. the people who are in such deep denial (looking at you Disco Gary) that there is no return.
A Billion a Year wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
A criminal like that [Trump] should know better than to run for President.
But the financial end game is worth it to Trump. Estimates are he made at least $1 BILLION from the government in his first year. Not bad for a guy forgoing a salary—of course he will deduct that "given away" salary as a tax deductible gift to the USA.
Well, that's the rub...is potentially making more money (I saw one estimate that said he LOST $700 million in his first year) worth potentially being found out that he's a fraud and that he might have to go to jail? Wouldn't be worth the risk to me, but then I wouldn't have risked all the criminal behavior he's been involved in for years either.
Flagpole wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:
The Memo:
https://www.axios.com/read-nunes-memo-fbi-doj-fisa-mueller-7fb8bcb7-1f18-4294-aa95-628d2f67bcdf.htmlWill just be one of the things eventually listed on the milestones timeline that we will see when this is all over and Trump is ousted OR not re-elected and is being punished in some fashion.
Looks like John Kasich is going to run for the Republican nomination against Trump. You Republicans would do well to support him...he is reasonable, moderate, and a decent man. Depending on who the Democrats run, I might even vote for him.
Hopefully he changes his tune in regards to women's health and abortion rights and becomes more socially liberal. If so, I'd vote for him
I've read it. Here's the summary.
1. No FISA warrants would have been issued without the dossier.
2. The dossier was funded by the DNC and Hillary, and created by a hard-core anti-Trumper. This information was not presented to the FISA court even though it was known. This is a violation of the law.
3. The dossier was largely uncorroborated.
4. Anti-Trumpers in the FBI and DOJ colluded with the Hillary campaign and the DNC to corrupt the FISA process and bring down a President.
All "ifs" are now gone. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the US.
Flagpole wrote:
A Billion a Year wrote:
But the financial end game is worth it to Trump. Estimates are he made at least $1 BILLION from the government in his first year. Not bad for a guy forgoing a salary—of course he will deduct that "given away" salary as a tax deductible gift to the USA.
Well, that's the rub...is potentially making more money (I saw one estimate that said he LOST $700 million in his first year) worth potentially being found out that he's a fraud and that he might have to go to jail? Wouldn't be worth the risk to me, but then I wouldn't have risked all the criminal behavior he's been involved in for years either.
The $700 million means that is what he plans to write off of the billion he made. Like you, I run my own business. Like Trump, I can claim that I lost money last year—over $100k in in expenses. Unlike Trump, I only claim actual costs paid out to vendors and operating expenses, and I do not claim them twice, which is what Trump appears to be doing.
DiscoGary wrote:
blah blah blah.
^Nothingburger
Let's summarize: There was an attempted coup on the President of the United States based on a dossier, written by a foreign national, that was never vetted.
And many of our nations leaders knew about it. Rosenstein, Comey McCabe and many others should be arrested.
Imagine if Trump and other Republican leaders had done this against Barack Obama. It would have been apoplectic.
Flagpole wrote:
Bearer of Bad News wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but here is how it will go down.
Mueller will carry on for another 9-10 months. He will release his findings. There may be a little here, a little there. Some Trump people will be implicated, but there won't be enough evidence to convict anyone of a crime. There will be enough distance between Trump and any evidence that does come out in the findings that he can claim plausible deniabiilty.
That's how it's going to end up. Anyone is a fool to think otherwise.
Doubt it.
Obstruction of Justice appears extremely likely. If he's innocent of conspiracy, it was foolish of him to do this.
Money Laundering appears extremely likely.
If he's interviewed (and he should be), Perjury appears extremely likely.
Conspiracy appears not as likely but still within the realm of possibility.
A little here? A little there?
Imagine if you were Trump. You have four people associated with you who have either been indicted or pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI - four of them are cooperating with Mueller. You have a fifth who quit the Trump team because he saw what he believed was obstruction of justice (and he's a lawyer). You have another guy (Carter Page) who had conversations recorded and who hasn't been brought in yet. Is HE cooperating? You have an investigation that is continuing long after your own counsel told you it would be over. You have at least 28 people associated with you who have been interviewed with the expressed intent to discover if you did anything illegal. You know about yourself that you have done illegal and shady things in your life for decades. Would YOU be concerned about your future?
Obstruction of justice and Money Laundering can carry felony convictions. Even if conspiracy is not proven, those are bad things. His lifestyle at a minimum is at risk.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
Tell us your predictions. Not what is likely, maybe, perhaps...
Concrete stuff.
Racket wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Doubt it.
Obstruction of Justice appears extremely likely. If he's innocent of conspiracy, it was foolish of him to do this.
Money Laundering appears extremely likely.
If he's interviewed (and he should be), Perjury appears extremely likely.
Conspiracy appears not as likely but still within the realm of possibility.
A little here? A little there?
Imagine if you were Trump. You have four people associated with you who have either been indicted or pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI - four of them are cooperating with Mueller. You have a fifth who quit the Trump team because he saw what he believed was obstruction of justice (and he's a lawyer). You have another guy (Carter Page) who had conversations recorded and who hasn't been brought in yet. Is HE cooperating? You have an investigation that is continuing long after your own counsel told you it would be over. You have at least 28 people associated with you who have been interviewed with the expressed intent to discover if you did anything illegal. You know about yourself that you have done illegal and shady things in your life for decades. Would YOU be concerned about your future?
Obstruction of justice and Money Laundering can carry felony convictions. Even if conspiracy is not proven, those are bad things. His lifestyle at a minimum is at risk.
Mueller is coming.
The clown is done.
I also dislike Trump but Bearer of Bad News is right. This will go on into 2019, and it looks like a few people (Flynn, Manafort, Page) will get hit up with indictments but I doubt it reaches all the way to the top (it probably does, but the evidence might just not be there). Trump will end his presidency in 2020 with the same approval rating he has now : 35% i.e. the people who are in such deep denial (looking at you Disco Gary) that there is no return.
Well, time will tell. I can't imagine how Flynn got such a sweetheart plea agreement (from potentially 60 years in jail plus indictment of his son to just 0-6 MONTHS in jail and no indictment for his son) if he wasn't giving big big stuff to Mueller. Gates cooperating along with Flynn and Papadapolous and likely Carter Page as well as Mark Corallo. Bannon WILL have to talk and tell the truth when he meets with Mueller as will Don Jr.
And "dislike" is not the appropriate word for Trump...neither is "hate". This should have nothing to do with liking him or not. It has to do with whether he has committed a crime against the United States or not. He is acting like a very guilty man...guilty of at least something. He's a horrible person beyond that, but I could tolerate it if he were just a horrible person. He is a threat to our democracy and therefore must be removed in any legal way possible...resignation, impeachment and conviction, lose in election. If he loses in 2020, then the investigation should continue and the truth discovered not JUST to punish him but to say to future Presidents that they can not behave in this way in this country.
DiscoGary wrote:
I've read it. Here's the summary.
1. No FISA warrants would have been issued without the dossier.
2. The dossier was funded by the DNC and Hillary, and created by a hard-core anti-Trumper. This information was not presented to the FISA court even though it was known. This is a violation of the law.
3. The dossier was largely uncorroborated.
4. Anti-Trumpers in the FBI and DOJ colluded with the Hillary campaign and the DNC to corrupt the FISA process and bring down a President.
All "ifs" are now gone. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the US.
1. Simply false and has been explained numerous times. I won't bother with the rest of your nonsense.
As I said the 'memo' will have a brief news cycle. The media will make a big deal out of it for viewership/readership, but it's totally a nothingburger.
Again, the Dutch notified the US in 2014 about Russia hacking. Well before the dossier. Page was under surveillance back in 2013-14.
The 'memo' narrative is distraction, nothing more. Mueller time is fast approaching Good times ahead for patriots. Not so much for Trumpers.
DiscoGary wrote:
I've read it. Here's the summary.
1. No FISA warrants would have been issued without the dossier.
2. The dossier was funded by the DNC and Hillary, and created by a hard-core anti-Trumper. This information was not presented to the FISA court even though it was known. This is a violation of the law.
3. The dossier was largely uncorroborated.
4. Anti-Trumpers in the FBI and DOJ colluded with the Hillary campaign and the DNC to corrupt the FISA process and bring down a President.
All "ifs" are now gone. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the US.
The FBI already indicated it was seriously misleading and contained inaccuracies. The whole "scandal to release" the memo isn't even a scandal because it's the word of a well known Trump supporting slim-ball disgrace of a politician versus the word of the FBI.
DiscoGary wrote:
I've read it. Here's the summary.
1. No FISA warrants would have been issued without the dossier.
2. The dossier was funded by the DNC and Hillary, and created by a hard-core anti-Trumper. This information was not presented to the FISA court even though it was known. This is a violation of the law.
3. The dossier was largely uncorroborated.
4. Anti-Trumpers in the FBI and DOJ colluded with the Hillary campaign and the DNC to corrupt the FISA process and bring down a President.
All "ifs" are now gone. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the US.
5. We're pretending the FBI is presumably so freaking stupid that in the FISA request they failed to mention that Carter Page was known to be the subject of Russian intelligence recruitment for which he was interviewed by the FBI in 2013.