50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Alan Bennet wrote:

Race reports! Lots of our runners at the XC this weekend, so I'm expecting lots of race reports! I might have to wait until the partying has settled down though.

Here's my preliminary report -- it hurt.

The course was not bad, but parts were getting a little chopped up even during the masters race, and times were a little slow. Winning time in the men's open was around 30:30. I expect we'll get results at the awards ceremony.

I stand corrected; winning time in the open race was more like 29:58. I was more interested in watching the racing.

Quick report before heading out to re-hydrate...Ran into L2B many times Fri & Sat. That was cool...It was very tough going...warm, breezy, mud and hills that never stopped. Heard I was 13th in the 50-54, our team was 3rd. Cal Coast & CNW 1-2...Happy about the team place, not so much about my place. Oh well....But right we need to find a place with huge burgers and cold beers!

Dave

Quick note before heading down to the reception/awards. Just want to add to what Dave already reported. SoCal simply crushed the competition in the men's 50+ (I think it was 20 team points). Atlanta didn't bring some of their best, including Tuttle; I heard they were injured. Props to Dave's team on finishing 3rd; yes, it was nice to run into and chat a bunch with Dave. On the women's side, Impala won the 50+ women, and MG's Club Northwest team finished 2nd, with MG their top scorer. Nice! I ended up in the middle of the 50-59 pack, as I figured. The course was pretty honest. I had mentioned it was coming up short on my Garmin during practice runs, but they added some length to the bottom of the loop that brought it to the full proper length. It did run pretty slow compared to 3 years ago; it was muddier and I think a bit longer. My one solace is that I only ran 10s slower than last time, so my time differential was much better; I was 1-1/2 minutes closer to Dave, for example....but he still smoked me pretty good. Haha.

Also, former poster, msr, was finished two spots ahead of Dave.

And on a gossipy note: Alan Webb wasn't too pleased at the finish, after finishing 6th or 7th...not sure which.

I'll say a bit more tomorrow. Cheers!

ugie wrote:

plantar faciatis in right heel has had me out for almost two months. getting fat and angry.

Do heel drops on stairs, stretch feet before getting out of be in morning and through day

Get a shop bought arch support, wear especially when driving

Good luck!

Results are up for USATF Club XC:

http://usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2012/USATF-National-Club-Cross-Country-Championships/Results/Masters-Women.aspx

http://usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2012/USATF-National-Club-Cross-Country-Championships/Results/Masters-Men.aspx

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Week 79

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Greetings 50+ers! I’ve got finals that still haven’t been graded; grades are due by noon tomorrow, I can give a short personal race recap, but a more colorful race report from the middle of the pack will have to wait another day or two. I hope some of the other runners will be able to chime in on their races.

My week was a tapered week leading into Club XC Nats. My total mileage for the week was about 41, which included yesterday’s race, of course. Log reads as such:

Sun: 5.2 easy

Mon: 7 easy (3.1 am, 3.9 pm) about 2/3rd’s on grass

Tue: 4 w/1@6:18 and 1/2@2:55

Wed: 6 w/ 2x3:00@5:45 pace, and 2x1:30@5:25 pace + shorter strides

Thur: 7 easy w/5.2 on grass

Fri: 3.5 easy

Sat: 8.2 w/10k hilly, muddy XC race in 39:48

No intervals again. Tues and Wed I did some pick-ups just to get some leg turnover without pushing my body into needing recovery. I actually felt pretty rested and ready going into Saturday’s race.

The short of it, regarding the race, is that the hills and mud took their toll; not just on me, but it seems most were reporting that by mile 4, they were just feeling spent.

My splits were: 5:54,6:16,6:27,6:24,6:45,6:41,1:22

Because of the long downhill on the first mile, even holding back, everyone was fast. After that, it was 2-3/4 laps of 3 uphills, 3-downhills (you don’t get the third downhill on the third partial loop.)

Even though I felt great at mile 2, I intentionally throttled it back a little, sensing that I wasn’t going to make it at that second mile pace, and 6:25 pace was feeling good for the next couple miles, so I felt that was a good pace. But on the uphill at mile 4, knowing that we still had another lap to go, I could just feel the air getting let out of the tires….and quickly. I struggled on that last lap, as did many. But I’m happy that my time was only 10s slower than three years ago, considering that many of the front runners had slowed by 1-1/2 to 3 minutes compared to what they had run back on that day in ‘09.

Sorry that I missed a lot of the wilder stuff that ensued after the awards were handed out. I took my wife back home, spent some time with her, and was waiting for Dave to call as to when they were going to move on to one of our local microbreweries. Well, things didn’t go quite as planned, and they never left the bar at the awards. Meanwhile, in the bar, there was mayhem. Some folks, who shall remain nameless, had to be carted off to their rooms, and everyone was being kicked out as I arrived back at the venue….except for Dave and a few of his Front Line buddies, who apparently weren’t associated with the rowdy crowd. The barkeeps let me in, and I was able to join them. In the end, I didn’t get to meet many other than Dave and a few of his crew, but we did have a good time talking over a few pitchers. Maybe Dan A. from the socal squad, who joined up with us after things had settled, can send my greetings to his socal buddies.

On a sad note, a woman was hit and killed by a fire truck just outside the hotel where many of the runners were staying:

http://www.kentucky.com/2012/12/09/2437194/pedestrian-killed-in-accident.html

No word at this point who it was; I certainly hope it wasn’t one of our visiting runners. Regardless, my condolences to the friends and family of the victim.

OK, that’s about all I got for now. I feel like I can settle back and enjoy some weeks of just running for fun. I’ll keep workouts to a minimum and maybe just throw in a little Fartlek to keep it interesting.

It’s time for me to get back to grading. Have a great week, everyone, as we work and run our way through this holiday season…try not to gain too much weight.

lucKY2b wrote:I certainly hope it wasn’t one of our visiting runners.

Link to that other thread you created:

"Lauren Roady killed in accident with Fire Truck at Club Nats - lucKY2b"

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4945497

Week 79: 11 hours 46 minutes in 11 runs, virtually the identical runs as week 78. I ran a hair faster, but it felt a lot easier. (I always feel really bad the first week after a fallback week.) Curiosity got the better of me, I put on the Garmin to see how far I have been running - 72.45 miles. Average HR 68%-HR-max (59%-HR-reserve), maximum HR 86%-HR-max (83%-HR-reserve). Injury avoidance mode.

I'm going to add the hills back in on Tuesdays, do more on grass, otherwise run basically the same for two more weeks. Follow that with another fallback over Christmas, 5K race on New Year's Day, then start training for the spring marathon. I have a coach now, he is going to provide the spring plan. I can't wait to find out all the things I have been doing wrong.

Sounds like muddy girl got her wish. I toyed with the idea of doing this XC race, but since I have never done XC before I figured I would just get hurt. Maybe next year. More race reports please!

Edgewood wrote:

I'm going to look back and see if fatigue was the cause of today's failure. I do not feel the race plan was agressive. Aerobically, I could still be out there. There was just no drive in my legs. Any ideas welcomed.

Edgewood,

I have about 18 marathons total, 4 since turning 50, last was 3:18 NYC 2011.

My hunch is that you need someone like me to point out what you already believe: yes, it is likely that fatigue/overtraining is your demon.

Your notes that "I've been having trouble with recovery since I dropped back down to 800s" and that " I'm going to look back and see if fatigue was the cause of today's failure." are clues to me. Also of course that this is a common curse of so many of us "that fit the demographic" (from your first post) of our thread. We just NEED more recovery in our 50s than our college days or even 40s, and the VERY COMMON mistake is to underestimate how much more recovery. Your training and perception of your fitness and absence of mention of injury tells me you had the cardio and the fitness. 3:05 with so much steady training since your 3:15 does not sound unreasonable. ... & such a collapse in the second half all point to fatigue.

My advice

1 )Get some good recovery during the holiday season,

2) during your next training program listen to your body more when you're having trouble recovering by backing off on the intensity/volume a bit (experiment) so that you feel fresh again in the point of your week/program when you should feel recovered,

3) re-think your taper (just what was your taper for this race?)

Keep it up! Let us know your 2013 goals when you figure them out. Best of luck to you. Keep posting as you motivate me.

Week 11 of 12

mon 10:04 miles (45 mins @ level 3 h/r 142 6:55 pace )

tues 8 miles rec h/r 126

weds 10:04 miles (30 mins @ level 3 h/r 141 6:51 pace )

thurs 7:15 miles steady h/r 132

fri 7 miles (3 miles @ level 3 h/r 145 19mins 57 sec )

sat 5 miles rec h/r 126

sun 9 mile steady h/r 132

weeks total 56:23 miles

Hope you all had a good race those who raced.Sorry not alot to report just abit fed up due to dark its like running in a tunnel all the time with the head tourch on.Its only sunday when i get out in the day light.Tuesday night 2 loggin trucks got stuck on a single track it seemed to take an age for them to reverse etc i could see there lights 20miins after i passed them.Well thats my lot you all take care keep on running.

52 miles this week. This is my second week back at 50+ and aerobically I felt good, but the legs felt pretty dead towards the end of the week. My 8 miles on trails with my son felt a little better this morning. Next week is my 63rd birthday, and since I now will be in the older part of the age group, my long term plan is to try to make the coming year more of a good consistent base training year with more mileage and no tapers or smaller tapers before races. Congratulations to all who made it to Club XC and raced this weekend.

I hope all had a good time at XC Club Nationals, would of liked to have attended.

Awful week of training, I've got to get this problem sorted out - 11 months of work and I'm so close! I'm typically not one to see a chiropractor but the highly recommended sports medicine doctor I've been seeing also suggested I see this one. The sports med doc's exercises not working either, in fact, this week everything got worse.

On a related note, there is a very good anatomy program, Muscle System Pro III, that I've been tinkering around with to try to figure out what is wrong. I'll have a lot of questions this week if I can get in to see the doc.

Week of 12/3

Mon AM Chiropractor, PT1+, light stretching, very slow 5 mile run, muscle associated with last Friday's workout is tight & still sore, although less.

PM stretching

Tue no run, PT2+, glut weights.

Wed AM PT3+, some PT2, 4 mile run, 'Friday's sore muscle' ok on run but sore during massage, hams better. Best I've felt running in a week.

PM massage, weights.

Thur PM foam roller, light stretching, exercises, 5+ mile run outside, felt awful from the start, felt like I'd just finished a marathon, tight everywhere afterwards, VERY frustrating. Massage.

Fri chiropractor, no run

Sat PM light stretching & exercises for warm-up then 2 miles on treadmill, legs aching by 1/2 mile, more exercises & light weights. I feel fine, even good, when walking. Weird.

Sun stretching

A good week to you all!

THANKS ALL!

@lucKY2B…I think you nailed it- too many long runs packed too close together. Because of the summer heat I delayed my first 20 miler until 15 weeks out. Previously I would have had my first at 22 weeks out. The damage occurred when I packed nine 20+ runs in a 14 week period. I’ve been ok with that quantity in the past, just spread out over 22 weeks.

@ Alan Bennet… I agree and do not hammer long runs. If I’m 1.5 – 2 minutes over expected MP, I’m happy most days. On several longer runs this cycle I would finish with a fresh group that was going only 6 miles and would close down at MP. I’ve never done that before and will rethink that strategy. While Boston ’11 was fast up front, the women didn’t throw down the big numbers. I feel I ran at my fitness level (:30 negative split).

@Charlie…I do like to tune-up with a half-marathon distance. This cycle I was unable to schedule one due to my daughter running HS XC (girls team state champ runner up’s, boys team state champs!) but I did run the Vulcan 10K in 40:15. I went 1:30:30 for the half in February after doing 12x1 mile just 5 days prior.

@over50…I shut it down 10 days out with just easy jogging. Seven days out I did 10miles. In the past this has been a 12-15 mile effort but I cut it short because of being a little stale. On Tuesday I went 2.5 with some 200m pickups. Off Wednesday and Thursday, 18 minutes the day before the marathon. This was a typical taper for me except for the shortened Saturday (depletion) run.

It is now obvious I got caught condensing too much work in too few weeks. I have never ran a fall/ early winter marathon before and my delayed start because of the summer heat did me in. I am going to enjoy easy jogging until January. I’ll close out the year with about 2300 miles. I would like to drop down and work on 5 and 10’s this spring and summer. Maybe I can get an entry to Peachtree…

Ending with a success… one of the kids (26) I coach had an 11 minute PR at Rocket City Marathon yesterday.

L2B is gaining ground on the top dogs because he seems to be slowing down at a slower rate.

ALF is building a tsunami.

WOC is injured but stay tuned

Alan is firing up with a new coach and a new approach

Old guy II is back to base can't wait till I am older now who besides us can have this wonderful way of looking at the process

Muddy was in her element

RacerDB was up against a STACKED AGE GROUP OMG!

me well I made it to 40 minutes on the dot today and feel pretty darn good also had a 34 and a goldilox 4.3

heart rate stuff

60 resting 190 max reserve 130

125 = 50 percent

138 = 60 percent

151 = 70 percent

164 = 80 percent goldilox effort probably 162

177 = 90 percent

190 = 100 percent

onward!

Thanks charlie i like that onwards and upwards

Ken, I've been worried about your back for a couple weeks now. I didn't say anything before because you know a lot more than I do about training, plus you are seeing all these specialists.... I have a good record recovering from back injuries, my first step is to drop all goals. Goal one becomes get the back healthy, and I don't know a quick way to do that. I know that's 180 degrees the opposite of what you want to hear. Sorry.

WOC wrote:

Thur ... felt awful from the start, felt like I'd just finished a marathon, tight everywhere afterwards, VERY frustrating. Massage.

Sat ... I feel fine, even good, when walking. Weird.

That rings a bell. I feel awful if I try to run after Ashtanga Yoga. In fact that's exactly how I hurt my back on April 1st. Walking is fine though! I need a whole easy day of running after Ashtanga Yoga. I can lift weights fine the day after though. I speculate that Ashtanga Yoga trashes the core so much that every muscle has to work extra hard just to run upright. Walking is fine because it only uses 1/3 of the muscles at a time and switches over when they get tired. Not so sure why lifting is fine, but I'm not doing core exercises that's for sure. I guess you are not doing Yoga, but you ARE doing a lot of ancillary stuff. Maybe some other exercises you are doing are trashing your core muscles just as bad.

Alan,

I tried doing exercises after running, and now before running in hopes of getting better alignment before using the running muscles, same with weights. I always feel good after weights, exercises, or stretching, I feel good and very solid walking, the next day too, often feeling great stepping right out of the bed in the morning. Why running is aggravating all this I don't know, assuming pelvis is tilted improperly. I ran on treadmill Saturday to take the curve out of the equation, same aches started occurring early in the run, except this time I decided to not be so disciplined and stopped at 2 miles rather than continue on to 5. An hour later I felt fine walking around. Whether I run or take a day off from running makes no difference to the leg aches and dysfunction that come one during a run.

This all started coming on gradually around the beginning of November, end of October. My times were getting faster so I kept hoping trying something new would get me around the corner to full muscle function without the, at that time, subtle hamstring discomfort. This is about the time I started doing most of my track work indoors. Being a flat 200m track and me starting to get some good speed going might have been too much for some stabilizer muscles. How to tweak them back into good form is what I don't know. I will try jogging the opposite direction indoors Tuesday and Thursday to see what that does, and of course I hope to get in to see the sports med doc as soon as I can. I did some pulley weights Saturday trying to mimic the opposite action of running the turns, which produced some muscle soreness today of the good kind. Maybe I need more sessions like that or just the opposite direction running.

RIght now I'm tired of thinking about it, I'm fully motivated and wanting to run, plus aside from the dysfunction, my muscles are well rested and ready for training. We'll see how this pans out, interesting journey, I looked up muscle cancer to be sure I wasn't developing that. Compared to many cancer patients I feel really good and I am doing quite well. Don't worry about me!

Cheers!

Ken