The Trials and Tribulations of Running YouTubers

Right now I just don't the time to do a lot of personal coaching...sorry! (go Big Red though?!). It's quite time consuming if you're actually creating custom plans/workouts and giving real feedback on an individual level nearly every day (or at least 3-4 times a week). I like to create more general Training Talks on my Youtube channel (making videos is actually a big passion of mine....as well as filming running and mountain adventures).

Apparently the demand for run coaching is high though. It also has been an big issue in the industry imo: Other coaches saying they are doing "total custom training plans that are individualized and personalized" (and charging a relatively big monthly fee for it), but then are really kind of just sending out the same "group workouts" to dozens and dozens of different athletes all at the same time. I think it's gotten a bit out of control and hurt our small business actually. It also can literally hurt the athletes that think they are getting personalized training from a coach who is doing this. It messes with the periodization. I also just think it's unethical and not something that I could ever do (I'd have trouble sleeping at night!)...despite for sure feeling like I need to make more money at this point in my life (it actually wasn't that long ago that I finally paid off my college loans from undergrad...)

When Sandi or I actually do "personal individualized coaching" it is a lot of 1-1 interaction, some phone/video calls on a monthly basis, working with the athlete as an individual to fit their schedule, needs, unique backgrounds and racing goals. We charge a slightly higher monthly rate for it, but it's not nearly as expensive as some "influencer coaches" and we probably certainly don't make nearly as much money as those that do the "fake personal coaching"

On the other hand we do sell "cookie cutter" Training Plans (at what I think is a low and fair price point). You get to keep them for life as a one time buy PDF download and they come with our Running Guide booklet. Any surface, Any Distance (and different levels)! #unsponsoredad #sorrynotsorry

Just to say, I purchased one of cookie cutter earlier on in my running career and used it (not religiously but loosely) for a marathon build going from 2:31 to 2:27 to win my home town marathon a undulating course.

I'd actually highly recommend, it's one of best I've come across. Along with P&D Advanced marathoning one, there's not a lot wrong with that for novice who only has £10 to spend.

I've only had one proper coach but was going through post natal depression at the time, so called it off after 4 months. He was an elite level coach and I felt, rightly, his time was better spent with someone on the up rather than down.

I am interested in getting one now but it's so tough to know what I'll get out of it/will I just be sent generic untailored weekly plans. I probably not even 100% sure what I want. The other problem is prices can be off the scale, which in part influences could be a contributory factor, and I'm a bit tight (and not well off.....hobby jogging rather than focussing on my career).

Apparently qualified running coaches and all round "man of the people" Chris "Fordy Runs" Ford has given us an in-depth look at his marathon plan.

Basically zero rest days, on the days he doesn't run he is in the gym. Of the 6 days he does run on most weeks he has 3 days with some "Goal pace" work (the man is obsessed with this phrase) and 1 day of threshold and 1 day of fast interval. Basically only about half his mileage is easy. The bulk of his miles are short runs of a weekday and huge long runs, obviously every week filled with "goal pace"

His goal race is London (comped by BITR or someone no doubt) but he is running Brighton 2 weeks before, I'm assuming for the clicks.

He generally turns up on race day and either stops running to help a friend, chats to people and "walks it in" or runs 15 miles at "goal pace" before saving himself for the Autumn.

I'm sure one of his other videos he said he was simply building endurance on this block and then speed for the autumn when BITR or Brooks are taking him to Berlin again. No doubt something will happen so he doesn't have to actually race it

I've seen some of Fordys videos and he seems like a alright guy, but his running, in terms of concentrating on performance seems ill planned. I hope he doesn't do coaching, does he? It does look like though he enjoys the community/social aspect which is fair enough, but at this point my goals are trying to stretch what my body can do.

What? Who goes to more than one club? I only attend my team's training. I'm not some running newbie who just goes to social meet-ups to plod about and get starstruck by anyone who holds a GoPro.

These are various athletes from different athletics clubs that I've met at competitions over the years and often done cool downs with after the race, or follow them on Strava and occasionally see a joke about this topic - just this past summer I raced against an elite female at a track meet and did the CD after with her and her Coach, we were talking about her performances and potential at the Marathon to which her Coach made a quip about "could base a YouTube channel on that" and then proceeded to segway into discussing topical running Youtubers, which included BP.

The example is immaterial, my point is, just because you aren't plugged into every single athlete in the UK, doesn't mean these views don't exist. I've experienced it first hand, a lot; he appeals to the slower demographic of British runners because that's who he intentionally targets but plenty of people don't hold a positive view on him, typically those who are informed enough to spot some of his bs.

Does seem from original post that people are moaning about YTs regardless of who they are. Ben Parks before and now Bester and Bowden.

From you post, I'm guessing you a decent level, and surrounded by similar sub elites (hence 30 comments to you). I find i. our demographic, there is a lot is jealousy. That others have managed to dervive a income, quit jobs/reduce hours and receive adulation.

I do think this thread, in some parts demonstrates that jealousy towards YTs. Objectively, yes there are some terrible ones but if you think ALL of them are terrible, I'd say it's probably you with the problem (jealousy).

So my question to you is, who are good YTs?

Ben Parks to his credit, buys all his own shoes and isn't (or v.rarely I could be corrected here) gifted them. Even when your gifted something, you're a bit more positive as you want further gifts, so there is bias. I find with Ben, he has really trashed some shoes, and does it non-rarely. Which means his shoe reviews are probably one of (if the only one) I think are totally honest and without bias (intended or unintended).

And the above has happened 30 times with 30 different athletes.......really?

I talk to national level runners basically every day and when it comes to youtuber chat, on one occasion, one of them mentioned enjoying the content of Allie Ostrander. Clearly I'm talking to the wrong athletes and missing out on the red hot frothing tidal wave of Ben Parkes hatred that you are inexplicably riding daily.

I think I move in similar circles to brain cell and kilted runner and my impression is that I find zero people who like or respect the likes of parkes, bester, Bowden, Felton. Echo chamber effect, I acknowledge. Their views range from broadly neutral to deep contempt to ridicule and of course they see that each of these YT people is different. Jealousy just doesn't seem a factor. Most of them would hate to front up to a camera constantly to sell themselves. And to , one guesses, spend loads of time trying to get littie revenue streams from every product that has some link to the running world. How fricking boring must that become?Many of them earn more than these people probably do. Some don't.

Fwiw, based on my rather selective observations, Bowden seems a very able character, revolting as I find her MO. Bester seems like he didn't get fully through adolescence.(i dont equate making money to indicate any useful or interesting trait other than making money.) Parkes would maybe just have been a mentally fragile middle/senior marketing manager and reasonable runner ( I wrote "club runner " though obvs he doesn't give a damn on the club bit) if social media didnt exist.

Clayton Young - joint-favourite as the most watchable and insightful. Videos are quite indepth and he comes across really well 100% of the time. It was so cool watching his journey to the OLYs

The Distance Project (Callum Elson) - very down to earth, very focused around giving back to the running community, a decent level of athlete and has been great to watch his upwards journey over the past 2 years

the5Kguys (George Mills & Tom Elmer) - it's been amazing watching George's development from an 800m guy at Brighton to now a real competitor on the world stage for OAC-Europe. Their whole approach, while often not striking the right balance, I'm sure people find very inspirational

Morgan McDonald - my other favourite, Morgan's editing is superb and easily the most amusing/funniest running channel I've come across. Super likeable character.

John Heymans - met him in Kenya last year, one of the nicest humans I've ever met in my life. Started a Youtube channel shortly after. Dont watch too many of his videos but he has insightful IG posts and is always very focused on passing knowledge along

Adam Fogg / Fogdog - youtube legend, likeable guy, great videos, performing well

Yaseen Abdalla - I dont care for the race video commentary videos, but some of his stuff during the OLY and the lead up to it was really good + cool to see insights into someone performing really well in the NCAA

Honourable mentions:
Adam Wood of BYU - can be quite bland at time but seems a very nice guy and always putting the work in, regardless of what the outcome is
Trackstaa - channel has moved away from the OG workout videos that were really good, so not watched it in a while now, but his online presence elsewhere is very good
Rory Linkletter - quite similar to Clayton Young's channel, good editing and a good watch
Charles Hicks - not very active anymore but his channel used to be good, enjoyed following the content of a really promising young British prospect, and a super nice guy
Jake Wightman - infrequent videos, but always great to see anything from athletes of this level
Paul Chelimo - same as above

The common denominator across the channels I enjoy is that they're all very down to earth people, they're very well informed about the sport and their training, and their channel isn't a constant obstacle course of trying to shill products or inflate themselves, nor is it the bare minimum 8min videos just to pump out any old low quality content to keep on their schedule.

Whereas some of the obvious youtube names I've left out either come across as very annoying, immature, ill-informed or insincere. I don't care for people who want to make content about paid trips abroad, stupid thumbnails or do a million shoe/gear reviews, I'm interested in performance and the athlete's training, but ultimately that X individual understands and can explain their training approach and the logic behind it.

One simple example I would give is Ben Parkes doing shoe reviews and advising on whether or not a shoe is good for workouts, when you can see from his Strava he hasn't been doing any workouts for many weeks at a time, or has maybe only done 1-2 runs at all in a shoe. SJD is famously guilty of this too. I find this as frustrating as Nick Bester saying "threshold pace is a pace you could hold for an hour.. or maybe a marathon" or Ben Felton telling a 13yo listener of his Podcast that they would be fine to do 3x Marathons in a year (as a 13yo).

It's just so insincere and completely fabricated.

You've & @braincell have made some valid retorts to my point. So I'll give you both some credit, and accept my accusation of it's often jealousy is misplaced.

Specifically regarding Bowden, she's neurodivergent hence MO can off put people. I would say give her more grace as it's a condition, rather than just a personality trait. Says someone who (self diagnosed / not professional so) is also neurodivergent I feel I have to 'defend' her a little. She's also spending time focusing (and achieving) on her running, which is inspiring.

You sound like an absolute melt.

So here's a trend I see here in your post:

Nearly all these channels/names are basically legit pro runners (some Olympians) and/or at least Olympic Trials qualifier level runners (2:18 marathon etc).

So fast people. Some probably have pro video guys editing and shooting most of their content for them (makes it a lot easier!).

On the other hand you have basically "pure influencers" who aren't sponsored for their speed/performances and run quite a bit slower (i.e. the Ben Parks or Kofuzis of the world).

So that's already kind of an apples vs oranges comparison.

I've personally found myself in a weird "in-between level" (not because I ever ran that fast or was ever close to making the Olympics, but because I've been sponsored and now after my health issues and getting older I've become slower). There of course is another layer to that with "being a Coach" too....

With the "pure influencers" they have the benefit of doing things like shoe reviews with all the different brands (some probably on lucrative short-term contracts). They can go wine and dine in Boston or Chamonix and go to shake out runs and exclusive events and speaking panels sponsored by multiple shoe companies. They also have the benefit of being "more relatable" to the average runner. There may be more pressure to "create content" and spread hype via sheer consumerism and materialism, but they don't have the immense pressure of actually racing for podium positions and competitive times and prize money like a real sponsored pro. They can often dip into brands marketing budgets that are bigger and more broadly defined.

The influencer basically has to focus more on product plugs, travel VLOGs, shoe reviews and building hype. They often don't have extensive running experience or coaching/high level training knowledge to talk about so they focus more on "vibes" and giving tips/"advice" to beginner runners and being "more approachable."

In both worlds though we can have a lot of façades (and overlap). Someone can be a "trust fund athlete and/or content creator" in Boulder with all the time and resources in the world to train and make videos. Another could be a sponsored pro barely making ends meet and racing their butts off for a few thousand dollars of prize money each year while training 120 miles a week. The former may or may not showcase aspects of their real life or what they think is really a "great running shoe" that deserves an 8.8 out of 10 on their totally arbitrary "running shoe review scale"...... while the latter has to work part-time waiting tables or working in the local run speciality store for $15/hr to make ends meet.

I've been around long enough on Youtube (and in the sport of distance running) to see a lot of this evolution. Some good. Some bad imo. I think one of the biggest issues is the spread of misinformation and other harm in the sport [bad running tips from Influencers or the Matt Choi ebike disaster] and projecting often unrealistic expectations: ["you can be a full-time content creator/Influencer if you just start uploading videos online".....with a trust fund/money from your parents"] etc.

To quote Daniel Pink: "Like it or not....We're all in Sales now!"

Brain cell, I'm labouring the point but did Felton really tell a 13 y.o that AS A 13 YEAR OLD it was ok to run 3 marathons a year.? If so then I do hope his credibility is brought down to the level that this advice deserves.

Bester on "threshold " being a one hour race pace or maybe a Marathon race pace?! I suppose this suggests that sometimes one can race at one's optimum level (as i believe he has managed near as dammit) and not really twig some of the physiological stuff underpinning it. Though people paying him large monthly sums for coaching might wonder what his knowledge base is for their own training.

Let's not forget Ran to Japan, or Jake Barraclough. Guy's knocking out consecutive weeks of 130-plus miles and racing. Watching him attempt his self-described "kamikaze approach" makes for a compelling watch.

In an odd way, he reminds me of a younger Sage Canaday -- minus the in-depth training talks. Those who've watched since day one may remember Sage used film himself stacking high-mileage weeks.

@Ran to Japan is absolutely brilliant viewing. He's funny, and brutally honest with his approach (like admitting high chance of injury with training methods but if he stays injury free he'll PB). Also his racing approach is seemingly idiotic but he seems to have mental brute force to hold on to a fast pace.

He also makes my training look (somewhat) sane. I'm currently (by whisker) outrunning Jake in 2025. It's only me who is aware we're in competition though 🤣

*Outrunning in mileage terms. In real (workout) terms he's way (20s/mile) ahead.

Here we go again... Mr flog bog is back, this time with aspirations to break 2:30

Agree, he is a great story teller. Also, it's so refreshing not to watch more shoe reviews and overly segmented threshold sessions.

I actually find you a whole lot more relatable than the average pure influencer (despite my running talent level being a lot closer to matt choi than clayton young). A lot of the pure influencers have evolved their style to feel a lot less authentic. Even the authenticity Noah Lyles brings to his youtube videos is actually a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of the content youtube pushes to me.