I wonder how long you can remain a media darling as a rapid rise to elite once you stop being an elite, does the recent foray into more mainstream non-running podcasts suggest that the running invites are drying up? Although I guess if you aren't performing as an elite the next best way to get people to think you're one is to get podcasts and articles to refer to you as such, but two years after your last decent performance there must be an expiry date approaching?
Unfortunately I'm sure these invites will continue because of the massive lack of knowledge about the sport in the country. She's been marketed as someone who knocked ~3+hours off her marathon time, because she once walked about London Marathon many years ago before she ever really started in the sport. So between that & the fact she'll still knock out sub3:00 means many outlets will still presume she's elite/pro and the general public lap it up, 'inspired' by improvements and how 'that could be me'.
Then also nowadays when someone has their own platform to put out content, they can stay relevant and get invites to places just as a social media personality (especially when you can attach a very old PB to the heading). Just look at Ben Parkes who ran 2:25:57ish in 2017, has never run under 2:30 since but still introduces himself every video as a 2:25 guy. Slightly different but Coleen Quigley has also transitioned away from the serious end of the sport purely into an influencer, and I dont think the general public in the U.S. would be able to tell the difference - she's still someone they saw once as a decent athlete, and they still see she is out jogging, so presume it's all the same.
To your point, I'm sure AC will end up completing the full transition to social media influencer because she seems to be prioritising that and she doesn't have the knowledge (or seemingly the self-motivation) to get back on the horse (to the same level) herself. It's just a shame that nowadays you can remain relevant without being competitive.
I'm one of those people that still hold on to my PRs os 2:16 and 1:04 even though I ran those over 13 years ago and very likely never will touch those times again (mainly because of my pulmonary embolism and focus on trail-ultras). I've actually been thinking of changing my Youtube banner to "The 2024 Denver Taco Bell 50km Champion" instead of saying I'm a "2:16 marathoner" (seriously).
As a competitive runner though, your identity is tied to your PRs. Your sponsors care about your performances (podium wins and times and CRs). As a coach in the space it is nice to put down some of your own (relatively fast) credentials because they are objective and quantiative values:
"Coached myself to 16th place at Boston and 10th at CIM and 8th at the USATF Marathon Champs.... 5 sub 2:20 marathons"
So I can see why Ben would want to do that as a Coach selling Training Plans. Yeah he ran 2:25 but usually runs 2:40s-2:50s nowadays (or is he hurt now and barely running)?
But as an INFLUENCER I don't think it really matters at all...you just have to be "faster than most." In fact, he is probably more relatable to the "just barely BQ and just barely sub 3 crowd" like a Kofuzi.....as well as the 4 hour marathoners. Top that off with doing "shoe reviews" and giving little basic "running tips" and it's more lucrative than actually trying to run fast and be competitive (being an Influencer in running nowadays is a lot more lucrative compared to being a sponsored pro probably for many). It also always helps to have money and free time to fall back on for "content creation" but that's a whole other story....
The other thing of course is that we all (eventually) get older and slower! So yeah "to stay relevant " you better be finding ways to keep reinventing yourself, creating new content, gaining those clicks and likes, and showing new value to brands and the running community.
I'm not going to lie, it's gotten really competitive nowadays because basically everyone has a Youtube channel and a podcast and posts stabilized Instagram video reels in 4k with drone shots. Competing for eyeballs and attention with all the "influencers" out there who just started running yesterday drowns out a lot of good advice from experienced coaches and pro runners imo.
Not to minimize the rest of what you wrote, but just reading the rules for this 50K:
-50K (11 hour cut off).
10 Taco Bells.
-Consume at least one menu item from 9 of the 10 (drinks don't count).
-Consume at least one (1) Chalupa Supreme or one Crunchwrap Supreme, and (1) Burrito Supreme or one Nachos Bell Grande.
-No on-course Pepto, Alka Seltzer, Pepcid A/C, Mylanta will be allowed.
I'm trying to figure out whether running a 50K while eating 10 Taco Bell menu items would make it easier or harder to recover from the exposure to all of that Taco Bell.
Unfortunately I'm sure these invites will continue because of the massive lack of knowledge about the sport in the country. She's been marketed as someone who knocked ~3+hours off her marathon time, because she once walked about London Marathon many years ago before she ever really started in the sport. So between that & the fact she'll still knock out sub3:00 means many outlets will still presume she's elite/pro and the general public lap it up, 'inspired' by improvements and how 'that could be me'.
Then also nowadays when someone has their own platform to put out content, they can stay relevant and get invites to places just as a social media personality (especially when you can attach a very old PB to the heading). Just look at Ben Parkes who ran 2:25:57ish in 2017, has never run under 2:30 since but still introduces himself every video as a 2:25 guy. Slightly different but Coleen Quigley has also transitioned away from the serious end of the sport purely into an influencer, and I dont think the general public in the U.S. would be able to tell the difference - she's still someone they saw once as a decent athlete, and they still see she is out jogging, so presume it's all the same.
To your point, I'm sure AC will end up completing the full transition to social media influencer because she seems to be prioritising that and she doesn't have the knowledge (or seemingly the self-motivation) to get back on the horse (to the same level) herself. It's just a shame that nowadays you can remain relevant without being competitive.
I'm one of those people that still hold on to my PRs os 2:16 and 1:04 even though I ran those over 13 years ago and very likely never will touch those times again (mainly because of my pulmonary embolism and focus on trail-ultras)
So I can see why Ben would want to do that as a Coach selling Training Plans. Yeah he ran 2:25 but usually runs 2:40s-2:50s nowadays (or is he hurt now and barely running)?
I think the major difference is that your PRs came as the result of a complete running journey with experience at the collegiate level. I feel like almost all these influencers seem to pop a quick time relatively early in their running journey and then struggle to match that again despite having a relatively young training age and at an overall age where you'd expect them to be able to conitnue improving (not to mention they can dedicate much more time than most others can to training). This is why I think their coaching is kind of scammy because they can brandish a PR or improvement in time but it doesn't really reflect their understanding of training. But Sage, you have a wealth of training experience that has happened leading up to those PRs and even more experience since then that makes you a valuable coach for runners at various levels. These other influencers basically only have their times as credentials and their only experience is what worked for them.
Not to minimize the rest of what you wrote, but just reading the rules for this 50K:
-50K (11 hour cut off).
10 Taco Bells.
-Consume at least one menu item from 9 of the 10 (drinks don't count).
-Consume at least one (1) Chalupa Supreme or one Crunchwrap Supreme, and (1) Burrito Supreme or one Nachos Bell Grande.
-No on-course Pepto, Alka Seltzer, Pepcid A/C, Mylanta will be allowed.
I'm trying to figure out whether running a 50K while eating 10 Taco Bell menu items would make it easier or harder to recover from the exposure to all of that Taco Bell.
Not to get off topic, but there was another surprise, "unwritten rule" that actually proved to be the hardest part of the event: "Puking at anytime was an automatic DQ". I was in a lot of stomach pain the last 5 miles!
Many in Parkes native land view his egregious 2.25 in a different way from how they might view your 2.16 Mr.Canaday. the fact that it's still such a core point of his brand just confirms why they may have this view.
Unfortunately I'm sure these invites will continue because of the massive lack of knowledge about the sport in the country. She's been marketed as someone who knocked ~3+hours off her marathon time, because she once walked about London Marathon many years ago before she ever really started in the sport. So between that & the fact she'll still knock out sub3:00 means many outlets will still presume she's elite/pro and the general public lap it up, 'inspired' by improvements and how 'that could be me'.
Then also nowadays when someone has their own platform to put out content, they can stay relevant and get invites to places just as a social media personality (especially when you can attach a very old PB to the heading). Just look at Ben Parkes who ran 2:25:57ish in 2017, has never run under 2:30 since but still introduces himself every video as a 2:25 guy. Slightly different but Coleen Quigley has also transitioned away from the serious end of the sport purely into an influencer, and I dont think the general public in the U.S. would be able to tell the difference - she's still someone they saw once as a decent athlete, and they still see she is out jogging, so presume it's all the same.
To your point, I'm sure AC will end up completing the full transition to social media influencer because she seems to be prioritising that and she doesn't have the knowledge (or seemingly the self-motivation) to get back on the horse (to the same level) herself. It's just a shame that nowadays you can remain relevant without being competitive.
This will sound a bit cryptic and I wouldn't swear to it being true but I believe AC approached a really smart coach post bester and that coach declined her because of all her SM stuff at the time. I think that coach made a smart choice looking where this has now headed. She seems to have found a niche and if it's a niche that is away from the serious side of the sport then I'm sure both her and it won't lose out.
I know of at least two coaches that turned her down.
I'm one of those people that still hold on to my PRs os 2:16 and 1:04 even though I ran those over 13 years ago and very likely never will touch those times again (mainly because of my pulmonary embolism and focus on trail-ultras)
So I can see why Ben would want to do that as a Coach selling Training Plans. Yeah he ran 2:25 but usually runs 2:40s-2:50s nowadays (or is he hurt now and barely running)?
I think the major difference is that your PRs came as the result of a complete running journey with experience at the collegiate level. I feel like almost all these influencers seem to pop a quick time relatively early in their running journey and then struggle to match that again despite having a relatively young training age and at an overall age where you'd expect them to be able to conitnue improving (not to mention they can dedicate much more time than most others can to training). This is why I think their coaching is kind of scammy because they can brandish a PR or improvement in time but it doesn't really reflect their understanding of training. But Sage, you have a wealth of training experience that has happened leading up to those PRs and even more experience since then that makes you a valuable coach for runners at various levels. These other influencers basically only have their times as credentials and their only experience is what worked for them.
Sage also has bigger networks with pro runners, pro teams, docs, coaches, etc. That's a huge force multiplier!
Unfortunately I'm sure these invites will continue because of the massive lack of knowledge about the sport in the country. She's been marketed as someone who knocked ~3+hours off her marathon time, because she once walked about London Marathon many years ago before she ever really started in the sport. So between that & the fact she'll still knock out sub3:00 means many outlets will still presume she's elite/pro and the general public lap it up, 'inspired' by improvements and how 'that could be me'.
Then also nowadays when someone has their own platform to put out content, they can stay relevant and get invites to places just as a social media personality (especially when you can attach a very old PB to the heading). Just look at Ben Parkes who ran 2:25:57ish in 2017, has never run under 2:30 since but still introduces himself every video as a 2:25 guy. Slightly different but Coleen Quigley has also transitioned away from the serious end of the sport purely into an influencer, and I dont think the general public in the U.S. would be able to tell the difference - she's still someone they saw once as a decent athlete, and they still see she is out jogging, so presume it's all the same.
To your point, I'm sure AC will end up completing the full transition to social media influencer because she seems to be prioritising that and she doesn't have the knowledge (or seemingly the self-motivation) to get back on the horse (to the same level) herself. It's just a shame that nowadays you can remain relevant without being competitive.
This will sound a bit cryptic and I wouldn't swear to it being true but I believe AC approached a really smart coach post bester and that coach declined her because of all her SM stuff at the time. I think that coach made a smart choice looking where this has now headed. She seems to have found a niche and if it's a niche that is away from the serious side of the sport then I'm sure both her and it won't lose out.
That would certainly tie with her power of 10 having listed a respected UK coach for a very very short amount of time, while she was a Clapham Chaser (with the coach not being Clapham based); but now her being uncoached/unknown coach but still a Chaser.
I can see it being very frustrating to try and coach an athlete all while knowing that if the Panama Canal swim or the Arctic ultra-relay™ offer enough money whatever plans you sketched out for a training block are gone immediately
whats the sexual predator Matt Fox been upto? I dnt wanna give the punk any views, just enjoy hearing what the challenge the chubby little bell end has failed most recently
He sent me two messages at the start of this month that were just the word die repeated over and over, sometimes misspelled.
I think a lot of people generally like Ben Parkes and his 2.25 is less of an outlier as stated- noting that it came in late 2018 (not 2017) as stated and was actually documented really well with people seeing the training improvements and process that got him there.
Yes, he followed this up with 2.33 and 2.35 before kind of fading off the other side of COVID but he posted some pretty impressive times in that period that showed the marathon wasn't just a flash in the pan - 67 half, 52 minute 10 mile, low 15s for 5k etc. I think it's a solid strategy now - go and bang out a few tempo marathons a year and make a living - it's what he's earned and I'm not sure that his injury/ mental health is going to let him get back to that level so why begrudge a dude a good living and some fun videos?
I think Brits like people with less of an ego - he doesn't do any of the weird stuff like banditing races or being over the top.
Parkes purple patch was very well documented indeed and so was the period which led to him running 2.37 in the spring before his late autumn 2.25. Both times align sensibly with his other PBs at the respective dates. That, though, is the thing; all the things he had in place for autumn 2.25 were pretty much in place for the 2.37, his SM stuff reveals. I realise of course that he had scope for improvement over that c 7 month window. 12 minutes though.
I think a lot of people generally like Ben Parkes and his 2.25 is less of an outlier as stated- noting that it came in late 2018 (not 2017) as stated and was actually documented really well with people seeing the training improvements and process that got him there.
Yes, he followed this up with 2.33 and 2.35 before kind of fading off the other side of COVID but he posted some pretty impressive times in that period that showed the marathon wasn't just a flash in the pan - 67 half, 52 minute 10 mile, low 15s for 5k etc. I think it's a solid strategy now - go and bang out a few tempo marathons a year and make a living - it's what he's earned and I'm not sure that his injury/ mental health is going to let him get back to that level so why begrudge a dude a good living and some fun videos?
I think Brits like people with less of an ego - he doesn't do any of the weird stuff like banditing races or being over the top.
No, he just misleads his fanbase about alot of stuff and makes excuses. His injury was how many years ago? So why are we talking about that stopping his return? He's often begrudged in the UK for always hiding behind excuses, targetting purely the entry level runner for his media (because anyone with any knowledge on the sport can see where he is wrong on topics) and constantly recycling video ideas or taking them from other creators, and relying on donations to fund his lifestyle because he chose to quit his job.
Secondly a little fact check:
HM: his PR is 69:05, that 67:48 that he touts was scrubbed off his Powerof10 as "downhill" because of the insane elevation loss the entire way (it's an entirely downhill HM, every single KM had an elevation loss, feel free to check it)
10M: his 10M PR of 52:06 is barely quicker than the 10M split of his HM PR.
10K: the 10K PR he talks about is actually from a solo TT he did near the Olympic Stadium in QEOP London, and the GPS jumps to 2:40/km on a certain stretch, so it will have definitely been short
5K: he's broken 16mins only twice, a 15:51 and a 15:24 which he talks about as his PR....except it was a Parkrun and shortly after Victoria Docks Parkrun had to change their course route because it was proven short, and throwing up too many dodgy results. Even his Strava has his best ever GPS for 5K as a 15:42.
This is what I mean, his brand is built on half-truths which aren't ever checked closely enough.
SJD is back, baby! And what better way for our guy to announce the start of his half marathon-specific training block where he'll be gunning to better his 1:05 half (~5 flat pace) than with a 10 mile run at 9:31 per mile pace. Time to get that Strava mileage chart trending up, skim a college physiology textbook, and discern that aerobic engine!
No snark, I love that SJD is doing a half specific block, rather than gunning for a marathon—I think it puts him in the best possible position for all around success. He's right about half training fitting into his family life better than marathon training (particularly the way he insists on marathon training), half training will transfer over just fine to the mountain stuff he really excels at, and he can go out way too fast (as he is prone to doing) in the half with more minor blowups than his marathon or 50k efforts.
I suspect he's going to be playing all the hits this cycle—1) Needlessly insisting he needs to build his aerobic engine at 9+ minute pace, 2) Flying across the country for one 10k tuneup race rather than hopping into 2 or 3 local races as fitness checks throughout the cycle, 3) Driving hours to Leadville to recruit red blood cells over a long weekend, and 4) Refusing to do anything resembling a real workout until 10 days out when he puts on spikes to run something like 5x800m all out—but I'm going to be rooting for him. It'll be a long shot, but if he does somehow manage to PR, I'll even order myself a hat with the "BIG D" logo on it.
how's the big D making money these days? is this just a "in-laws accepting their daughter and son in law will never have real jobs or a viable way to pay for an ever-growing brood of offspring, so handing over the inheritance early" situation? must be nice to just make a youtube video once in a while and hang out the rest of the time.
You forgot he fulfills one to two orders a week. It must take him forever to discern the right size box.
He's often begrudged in the UK for always hiding behind excuses,
I live in the UK and I'm embedded in the running scene with mutual friends who have met him. Can debunk the claim that Ben Parkes is often begrudged here, literally never heard anyone begrudge him once.
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but it feels difficult to find a coach, and I've never seen Sage with openings (Cornellian hook up please?). I think most people are not going to read books, build their own running plan, and then tailor it to themselves as they figure out what works for them. I assume most people just want to be spoon-fed exactly what to do, so I doubt many of the people who sign-up for Runna through Kofuzi would have made the leap to getting a coach.
I'm curious how many people will run themselves into a stress-fracture from the 'I Ran to Japan' youtuber that has been popping up lately.
He's often begrudged in the UK for always hiding behind excuses,
I live in the UK and I'm embedded in the running scene with mutual friends who have met him. Can debunk the claim that Ben Parkes is often begrudged here, literally never heard anyone begrudge him once.
yeah but you're not the only one who lives here or who knows him personally. I could name 30x people from different clubs off the top of my head who I've met in London (typically more competitive club-athletes) who've moaned about him (without me bringing up the topic first)
a little less so recently as he has faded more into obscurity, and people seem pre-occupied about complaints re Bester & Bowden's respective content
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