Official 2019 NCAA XC Discussion Thread - We'll be doing a live pre-race show starting at 10 am ET

This reminds me a lot of when Oklahoma State was so highly favored to win the head they had Farrell Erassa and all those guys.

skyboy wrote:

I know they have exemptions for their missions where they "don't run", but how is having a 23 year old sophomore even a fair competition?

Years these kids graduated high school:

Connor Mantz [SO] - 2015

Daniel Carney [SR] - 2012 WTF???

Jacob Heslington [SR] - 2013

Brandon Garnica [SO] - 2018 (as far as I can tell, the only proper college aged kid on the team)

Matt Owens [SO] - 2014

Michael Ottesen [SR] - 2013

Connor Weaver [JR] - 2014

It's not even good coaching, its just straight up age cheating against the rest of the ncaa

The other guys are older but the 22, almost 23 year old sophomore, is also competing against seniors that are the same age or close to it. And those that he is competing against didn't have a break in training like the BYU sophomore did.

skyboy wrote:

I know they have exemptions for their missions where they "don't run", but how is having a 23 year old sophomore even a fair competition?

Years these kids graduated high school:

Connor Mantz [SO] - 2015

Daniel Carney [SR] - 2012 WTF???

Jacob Heslington [SR] - 2013

Brandon Garnica [SO] - 2018 (as far as I can tell, the only proper college aged kid on the team)

Matt Owens [SO] - 2014

Michael Ottesen [SR] - 2013

Connor Weaver [JR] - 2014

It's not even good coaching, its just straight up age cheating against the rest of the ncaa

Wow. If this was a team of foreign kids with these ages people would be even more livid.

I don't think its fair to say it isn't good coaching. Even with a clear age advantage, good coaching is still needed.

However, I can actually see some advantages to the mission downtime. Say you get an 18 year old freshman. He spends 2 years ramping up volume and getting adjusted to college training. Goes on mission for a year (or is it 2?). That's a block of time where his body can heal from the training load. He comes back to training after mission fresh and healthy even if there was detraining. Plus he is physically more mature. Takes him six or twelve months to get back to where he was and beyond. Another year or two to compete.

I am not a scientist but neither are they.

But look at the size of the team too:

That's at least 30 guys. Give me 30 guys who are 23 year old freshman and I can "coach" them to pretty much any title they want against a bunch of 18 year olds

blamb61 wrote:

skyboy wrote:

I know they have exemptions for their missions where they "don't run", but how is having a 23 year old sophomore even a fair competition?

Years these kids graduated high school:

Connor Mantz [SO] - 2015

Daniel Carney [SR] - 2012 WTF???

Jacob Heslington [SR] - 2013

Brandon Garnica [SO] - 2018 (as far as I can tell, the only proper college aged kid on the team)

Matt Owens [SO] - 2014

Michael Ottesen [SR] - 2013

Connor Weaver [JR] - 2014

It's not even good coaching, its just straight up age cheating against the rest of the ncaa

The other guys are older but the 22, almost 23 year old sophomore, is also competing against seniors that are the same age or close to it. And those that he is competing against didn't have a break in training like the BYU sophomore did.

Klecker is about 3-weeks older than Mantz. I couldn't find Kurgat's age.

What do Mormons and Ivy Leaguers have in common?

EXCUSES!! Jesus, give me a break.

Not choked. B.Y.U. student-athletes most likely drank less booze over the past three weeks as compared to N.A.U. student-athletes.

I ran in the 70s and often competed against guys in their mid 20s - foreign athletes for the most part. You raced against who showed up. No excuses, and no whining.

I am surprised at the intolerance here (“It goes without saying Mormons don’t understand facts or science” - some in fact do - my Mormon physician friend does / he compartamentalizes many do). While I absolutely don’t find that faith my cup of tea, the sweeping conclusions don’t make sense. Would those making such statements say the same about Muslims? I doubt it - it is just emotional thinking taking place, and what the heck does someone’s faith matter to a race?! You have to beat who shows up, and kudos to BYU In dealing with the rain and mud (I was a 3:42 1500 guy who ran high on my feet, and I can only imagine how poorly I would have done on a day like this).

Rono from WSU was 24yo in 1976; running 28:07; still the NCAA XC record ...

Just to be clear, I have nothing against the Mormon faith. I just think there should be an age limit to competing in the NCAA

If BYU has such an advantage with their older runners, then how is this their first NCAA championship?

No, you couldn’t. And having a bunch of 800m guys who don’t compete in cross country jump in a workout doesn’t mean they’re among your pool to choose from for the XC team. It’s 15-20 guys.

Because other teams only race 18-yr olds!

That's why I came here and this is the first mention of him. Looks like he didn't even run. I wonder why?

Fair enough and worthy of discussion. I just don't like bigoted comments.

Going on a mission and not training is a disadvantage

I think finally getting back in shape after a mission and being older probably is an advantage.

I think the 1st year back from a mission the lack of tng offsets the age and the runner is at a disadvantage. It is probably even the next year and probably an advantage any years after that.

Conner Mantz had a disadvantage if anything since he is racing people the same age and he had a break in tng.

sp2 wrote:

tally wrote:

Ratcliffe in 152nd team place.

If he's top ten, Stanford is right there.

Would like to find out, obviously, what happened to Ratcliffe, but Stanford never found a 5 this year, so there's no way they were getting there. Even with a solid Ratcliffe today, they would've been 4th.

Fahy and Parsons with a excellent end-of-season comebacks to give very solid performances today was nice, but without a solid 5, it wasn't gonna happen.

+1

skyboy wrote:

Just to be clear, I have nothing against the Mormon faith. I just think there should be an age limit to competing in the NCAA

If that happens say Bye bye to Iona and Alabama and UTEP and all the other foreign dominated teams. Back in the day Providence had 24-26 year old frosh (DEEGAN, RAY TREACY, GEOFF SMITH etc.)

blamb61 wrote:

Fair enough and worthy of discussion. I just don't like bigoted comments.

Paradox of tolerance. Look it up. You can't be "bigoted" towards a people whose entire ideology hinges upon supremacy and hatred.

Cute to see you double-down on defending the age cheats.

Just stop it with the 18 year old comments. In a quick perusal there were 4 freshman in the top 50 and maybe the same number of sophomores. By this time of year almost one third of freshman are already 19 given that most places have a cut-off for starting school set at 1 September.

No rules were broken in fielding their team. I for one celebrate the BYU men winning their first Cross Country National Championship!

I guess haters will always hate. I am signing off of this message string.