Semenya wins in court, is able to race all distances without lowering her testosterone

Sprintgeezer wrote:

trollism wrote:

So, in your world, are the IAAF the men? I don't understand which men you're referring to when it comes to 'sorting things out'?

This a more intelligent and insightful comment.

As many women will tell you, the highest levels of institutions like the IAAF and IOc are male-dominated. They were invented by men, established by men, essentycreated in their own image. They continue to be run by men in every meaningful way, especially at the IOC level.

Not to mention the Swiss legal system. Do you know that until 1985 men controlled most things, and that a wife couldn’t even open a bank account without permission? Heck, women only got the vote in 1971!! Most thingsbpublicly are still male-dominated, and let me tell you, there are women who remember, and who are still really SORE. That stuff is recent history for them.

I know because I spend lots of time there.

These are the “men” who are acting as agents for women on this issue. Just look at the gender representation in the relevant threads on this board.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

A Woman in Britain wrote:

Err, right. Fascinating having you share your misogynistic hatred for women with us.

Do you know what happens to women who complain in public - your comments are deleted. I posted quite mildly on the bbc reporting of this latest turn in the case, that the IAAF ruling only covered XY athletes with DSD and my comment was deleted. Nothing controversial or personal about Semenya at all. As usual, loads of abusive comments about women and about Semenya being a woman were not deleted and were published. Thats par for the course on media.

When Lynsey Sharp complained about Semenya, she was subject to racist comments, called slow, and received death threats. She reduced her social media presence for her own safety and also because British Athletics/lottery funding contracts require athletes to be uncontroversial. I guess its the same with sponsorship contracts - no company wants to be associated with an athlete who makes comments that could be seen as anti-trans or anti-inclusive. So start making those sort of comments or arranging something with other female athletes behind the scenes, and you risk losing your contract and funding or not being invited to races you need to run in to get points and times. It would be career suicide.

Added to that, we have to deal with abusive comments labelling women as all having the same supposed faults, as if we are one generic mass who all behave the same. Thats like saying all men are rapey.

I'm not seeing any male athletes coming out in public to make a stand against a mid packer male athlete winning Olympic and World medals by claiming to be a woman either. Where are all the other club standard male 800m runners condemning this or claiming that they should be able to identify as women solely for the purpose of winning races [which is basically the only time that Semenya appears to identify as a woman].

Like I said, another woman shooting herself in the foot by calling the biggest male woman’s advocate a misogynist.

Try reading all the posts.

Did you post on here? Not until now. Unless you’re a complete nutjob, your post would not have been deleted. I offer my own posts as evidence.

And stop being a wimp. You illustrate exactly my point. You are afraid to get a bloody nose. Ooohhh, somebody called you a name, or labelled you. If you really believe in what you are saying, FIGHT BACK instead of folding like a cheap lawn chair.

Misogyny isn’t hearing something you need to hear for your own benefit, and not liking it. Stop talking for a second and listen. And please stop reciting the same automatic ritual incantations that have gotten you nowhere other than to the situation where your complaints aren’t listened to.

A woman in Britain wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Like I said, another woman shooting herself in the foot by calling the biggest male woman’s advocate a misogynist.

Try reading all the posts.

Did you post on here? Not until now. Unless you’re a complete nutjob, your post would not have been deleted. I offer my own posts as evidence.

And stop being a wimp. You illustrate exactly my point. You are afraid to get a bloody nose. Ooohhh, somebody called you a name, or labelled you. If you really believe in what you are saying, FIGHT BACK instead of folding like a cheap lawn chair.

Misogyny isn’t hearing something you need to hear for your own benefit, and not liking it. Stop talking for a second and listen. And please stop reciting the same automatic ritual incantations that have gotten you nowhere other than to the situation where your complaints aren’t listened to.

Yer all right mate, I know a wannabee abusive twat with 'issues' when I see one.

Im not weak or helpless, and I don't need your twisted 'help' to fight my battles, 'male women's advocate' (you might want to reconsider that phraseology...) or not.

Youre not very erudite though. My post on the BBC website about Semenya being an xy individual was deleted. I specifically mentioned the BBC website. Goodness knows how that led to a rant from you about posts being deleted (or not) on a completely different website. Good though let's run is for tolerating contentious posts, it doesn't have quite the wide ranging audience of the BBC.

Oh, and a little tip. If you want to be taken seriously in this world (as well as not being mistaken for being a badly brought up abusive twat), try and engage somewhat more politely ab initio.

Not that anyone gives a flying Jeff anyway.

I Am Sam wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If Semenya had been born in a country with a better health service she would have had a blood test and a scan after she was born that would have confirmed her sex/gender as male. The presence of testes - even though internal - and the absence of female reproductive organs would have been confirmed. External features do not always determine sex. Even though she is DSD, possessing, it has been reported, externalised female genitalia, she is genetically male. This is reflected in her androgenic qualities, that include male levels of testosterone. She has more in common with any male reading this thread than any woman. What she chooses to identify with is a separate issue.

You know you are referring to the same country that pioneered heart transplants, right?

...and please tell me in which western country a baby 'would have' undergone those tests and scan as a matter of routine?

Imagine the scene: "Its a girl"!!..."no, it might look like she has a vagina, but we have to do some tests first"

I Am Sam wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If Semenya had been born in a country with a better health service she would have had a blood test and a scan after she was born that would have confirmed her sex/gender as male. The presence of testes - even though internal - and the absence of female reproductive organs would have been confirmed. External features do not always determine sex. Even though she is DSD, possessing, it has been reported, externalised female genitalia, she is genetically male. This is reflected in her androgenic qualities, that include male levels of testosterone. She has more in common with any male reading this thread than any woman. What she chooses to identify with is a separate issue.

You know you are referring to the same country that pioneered heart transplants, right?

...and please tell me in which western country a baby 'would have' undergone those tests and scan as a matter of routine?

Imagine the scene: "Its a girl"!!..."no, it might look like she has a vagina, but we have to do some tests first"

web2dot0 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If Semenya had been born in a country with a better health service she would have had a blood test and a scan after she was born that would have confirmed her sex/gender as male. The presence of testes - even though internal - and the absence of female reproductive organs would have been confirmed. External features do not always determine sex. Even though she is DSD, possessing, it has been reported, externalized female genitalia, she is genetically male. This is reflected in her androgenic qualities, that include male levels of testosterone. She has more in common with any male reading this thread than any woman. What she chooses to identify with is a separate issue.

She is medically confirmed to have a FEMALE BODY. Simple lookup can confirm that.

So while you can talk internal penis, and 46XY all day long. She should be identified as female.

web2dot0 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If Semenya had been born in a country with a better health service she would have had a blood test and a scan after she was born that would have confirmed her sex/gender as male. The presence of testes - even though internal - and the absence of female reproductive organs would have been confirmed. External features do not always determine sex. Even though she is DSD, possessing, it has been reported, externalized female genitalia, she is genetically male. This is reflected in her androgenic qualities, that include male levels of testosterone. She has more in common with any male reading this thread than any woman. What she chooses to identify with is a separate issue.

Having internal testes don't make you a male and/or absence of female reproductive organs.

Example.

A woman who had cancer and having her uterus removed. Is she still a woman SIR? Go think about that.

Is a eunuch a man or a woman ... SIR? Go think about that. Some eunuch also involves having their penis removed. Go read Chinese history.

If only everything is as straight forward as you described.

I Am Sam wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Medical practice has evolved further than you are aware of. In most Western countries, such as the UK, Australasia etc, pre-natal scans are routine, to ascertain whether there are any issues, such as defects, in the baby. These would have identified Semenya's condition, that includes internal testes and the absence of female reproductive organs. It is also significant that as the standard of health care has improved in African countries there are now fewer cases of DSD as the result of wrong identification of the child's sex.

Further than I am aware of.? ..wow, you make as if everybody else in the world are less educated than Americans. What makes you believe that I am not from one of those two countries you mention, and I am not tertiary educated?

The point is that it wasn't a question of no one knowing about Caster's condition until she started winning events, they did.