Still waiting for the first Kenyan to reveal who organized their doping.
Still waiting for the first Kenyan to reveal who organized their doping.
casual obsever wrote:
Still waiting for the first Kenyan to reveal who organized their doping.
This is the key thing, we need some top Kenyan to do a tell all with a British tabloid to expose it all. But they're all scared which tells me that the supplier has some sort of power in the country.
Subway Surfers wrote:
This is the key thing, we need some top Kenyan to do a tell all with a British tabloid to expose it all. But they're all scared which tells me that the supplier has some sort of power in the country.
Scared, maybe. Or the organizers have more to offer than the IAAF,
or the IAAF doesn't want them to talk in the first place.
Oh the irony. This whole post is opinion supported by belief.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Your "real facts and arguments" are merely opinion. You may be surrounded by scientists, as you say, but you are clearly not one, as you are always selective with data and how it is to be interpreted so that it inevitably supports a predetermined conclusion. Such information that doesn't fit you either ignore, assert is wrong or seek to minimise. Your arguments are therefore tendentious and your methods those of the propagandist - but they are not that of a scientist. It would be safe to say of you that nothing could change your mind once you have formed a belief. It is apppropriate that you keep coming back to that term when discussing doping, because to you "belief" is everything. What you attribute to others is a thus a description of yourself. Freud would be amused.
Looks like local doctors play a prominent role in many cases, either intentionally or unwittingly. But you need wait no longer for the first Kenyan. When Matthew Kisorio was busted for steroids, he sat down in an interview with Hajo Seppelt. "Seppelt: He claims that he was incited by his doctor. With better results, which are easier by doping, an athlete earned money. The doctor wanted to have his share. The doctor has apparently given him injections of banned substances and also tablets. One of these tablets led to the alleged positive test." Could it be European coaches and managers? "Seppelt: I can not imagine that the coaches and managers, who come mainly from Europe by the way, know nothing about it. But he did not accuse them in this interview." WADA recently investigated Kenyan doping and issued a report: "The doping practices of Kenyan athletes are unsophisticated, opportunistic, and uncoordinated and there is no evidence of an institutionalized system," "Some local medical practitioners and quasi-medical personnel are unaware and/or wilfully blind to their role in facilitating the access of athletes and their entourage to Prohibited Substances,"
casual obsever wrote:
Still waiting for the first Kenyan to reveal who organized their doping.
rekrunner wrote:
WADA recently investigated Kenyan doping and issued a report:
"The doping practices of Kenyan athletes are unsophisticated, opportunistic, and uncoordinated and there is no evidence of an institutionalized system,"
WADA also wants Russia re-admitted, so they are even softer on doping than the IAAF.
It all depends what you consider an 'institutionalize system'.
When AK appointed Japheth Kemei as the official team coach for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games :
1/ The manager of the 2016 Rio team was under investigation for accepting bribes in relation to doping AND for running a doping ring for top athletes out of a hospital in Eldoret opened for athletes by David Rudisha.
2/ He (Japheth Kemei) had already had a junior female athletic start suspended for four years for failing an EPO test.
I appreciate life is a bit chaotic and 'unsophisticated' in a Third World country like Kenya, but those two facts above could not co-exist together in any non-African country, and if they did, the country would likely to be banned for institutionalized doping.
Even though the junior athlete suspended died suddenly last year at age of 20 AND Kemei's star athlete Bett was suspended for doping, I know of no sanctions against Japheth Kemei. For all we know, he might be named the official coach for the Doha World Championships. (and if he is, and I post a thread on it, the Brojo's mods will delete it and Jonathan Gault will no doubt interview him before Doha without mentioning anything about doping).
Coevett wrote:
I know of no sanctions against Japheth Kemei.
Looks like he's still active:
http://www.mediamaxnetwork.co.ke/people-daily/lemotit-sigowet-training-camps-fete-their-athletes-522000/rekrunner wrote:
Oh the irony. This whole post is opinion supported by belief.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Your "real facts and arguments" are merely opinion. You may be surrounded by scientists, as you say, but you are clearly not one, as you are always selective with data and how it is to be interpreted so that it inevitably supports a predetermined conclusion. Such information that doesn't fit you either ignore, assert is wrong or seek to minimise. Your arguments are therefore tendentious and your methods those of the propagandist - but they are not that of a scientist. It would be safe to say of you that nothing could change your mind once you have formed a belief. It is apppropriate that you keep coming back to that term when discussing doping, because to you "belief" is everything. What you attribute to others is a thus a description of yourself. Freud would be amused.
You probably think analysis of character requires statistics. For "accuracy". I'm sure we could allocate a percentage to your bias.
Looks like he's still active: wrote:
Coevett wrote:
I know of no sanctions against Japheth Kemei.
Looks like he's still active:
http://www.mediamaxnetwork.co.ke/people-daily/lemotit-sigowet-training-camps-fete-their-athletes-522000/
Wow, that's disgusting. Good find - we need to keep track of him and his athletes.
Top on the list of those recognised was Beatrice Chebet, who won the junior women’s World Cross-Country title in Denmark in March, before winning gold in 5,000m at the Africa Under-20 Championships in Abidjan, Cote d’Ivoire last month to be crowned StarTimes Sports Personality of March a week ago.
Zena Chemutai, who romped to victory in 3,000m in Abidjan and Caren Chebet, silver medallist in the same event, were also feted by the leaders and the camp’s coaches.
Kenyan athletics really does have zero credibility at this point.
LotsOfAfricanCheaters wrote:
The Ethiopians do a better job of completely avoiding out of competition testing at all costs, but they're just as dirty. Imagine if a WHITE European nation were caught with the level of dopers in middle and long distance running as we've seen with Kenyans - Kenyans who are enjoying a high level of behind the scenes protection whenever possible. The Africans have shown themselves to be far beyond the Russians yet they enjoy sympathy from the idiotic SJW types.
Agree with your points mostly, Ethiopia is just following the strategy of not testing therefore no positives. Yes Kenya should have been banned by now from international competition - at least the distance runners. This has happened to China in swimming and Russia in track and field and Kenya is at least as bad as those two nations when you look at the pile of positive tests they are piling up.
However, sometimes white athletes are protected too - look at Radcliffe: dodgy blood test results covered up for years then leaked to the investigative press then some BS excuse about dehydration put up by the IAAF and no punishment was administered. Also East Germany was never banned from competition despite obvious doping of their athletes for years.
Coevett wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
WADA recently investigated Kenyan doping and issued a report:
"The doping practices of Kenyan athletes are unsophisticated, opportunistic, and uncoordinated and there is no evidence of an institutionalized system,"
WADA also wants Russia re-admitted, so they are even softer on doping than the IAAF.
It all depends what you consider an 'institutionalize system'.
When AK appointed Japheth Kemei as the official team coach for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games :
1/ The manager of the 2016 Rio team was under investigation for accepting bribes in relation to doping AND for running a doping ring for top athletes out of a hospital in Eldoret opened for athletes by David Rudisha.
2/ He (Japheth Kemei) had already had a junior female athletic start suspended for four years for failing an EPO test.
I appreciate life is a bit chaotic and 'unsophisticated' in a Third World country like Kenya, but those two facts above could not co-exist together in any non-African country, and if they did, the country would likely to be banned for institutionalized doping.
Even though the junior athlete suspended died suddenly last year at age of 20 AND Kemei's star athlete Bett was suspended for doping, I know of no sanctions against Japheth Kemei. For all we know, he might be named the official coach for the Doha World Championships. (and if he is, and I post a thread on it, the Brojo's mods will delete it and Jonathan Gault will no doubt interview him before Doha without mentioning anything about doping).
Doping doesn't have to be institutionalised to be endemic. Most doping isn't state-led or organised. Kenya isn't E Germany or Russia but its doping is widespread. For doping to become prevalent all that is necessary is for it to become part of the sporting culture. That is everywhere now. Weak anti-doping allows it to flourish. Some countries and sports are worse than others.
whites cheat too wrote:
LotsOfAfricanCheaters wrote:
The Ethiopians do a better job of completely avoiding out of competition testing at all costs, but they're just as dirty. Imagine if a WHITE European nation were caught with the level of dopers in middle and long distance running as we've seen with Kenyans - Kenyans who are enjoying a high level of behind the scenes protection whenever possible. The Africans have shown themselves to be far beyond the Russians yet they enjoy sympathy from the idiotic SJW types.
Agree with your points mostly, Ethiopia is just following the strategy of not testing therefore no positives. Yes Kenya should have been banned by now from international competition - at least the distance runners. This has happened to China in swimming and Russia in track and field and Kenya is at least as bad as those two nations when you look at the pile of positive tests they are piling up.
However, sometimes white athletes are protected too - look at Radcliffe: dodgy blood test results covered up for years then leaked to the investigative press then some BS excuse about dehydration put up by the IAAF and no punishment was administered. Also East Germany was never banned from competition despite obvious doping of their athletes for years.
+1
All good points there! And yes...I agree; Kenya should have be been banned by now. They're simply out of control with a culture of doping and making a mockery of the sport. And if there are some clean athletes at the top the dopers have ruined for them as every top performance now by a Kenyan is going to be questioned.
Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:
And yes...I agree; Kenya should have be been banned by now. They're simply out of control with a culture of doping and making a mockery of the sport. And if there are some clean athletes at the top the dopers have ruined for them as every top performance now by a Kenyan is going to be questioned.
It's a good point. And If it were just isolated individuals or a couple of dodgy camps/coaches, then surely the 'clean' guys/camps would be more outspoken about getting rid of them? A doped up athlete like Bett didn't just cheat Kyle Langford out of a medal, he cheated another 'clean' Kenyan guy out of a place on the Kenyan team. How does that athlete and his coach think about Japheth Kemei continuing to train elite athletes? Why does Bernard Ouma lose his temper over an AIU tweeted picture showing his athletes with Asbel Kiprop yet not get publicly angry about coaches of convicted dopers being allowed to continue to coach and potentially drag Kenya's reputation further through the mud?
Looks like he's still active: wrote:
Coevett wrote:
I know of no sanctions against Japheth Kemei.
Looks like he's still active:
http://www.mediamaxnetwork.co.ke/people-daily/lemotit-sigowet-training-camps-fete-their-athletes-522000/
Someone needs to take note of this guy's associates because if this trend continues we will be reading in about two years time that assistant coach X coached athlete Y who got busted for ____
Coevett wrote:
he cheated another 'clean' Kenyan guy out of a place on the Kenyan team.
I'm not sure how deep the rabbit hole is anymore. If the list for some events is very long and really rotten, the first clean guy might not meet the qualifying standards.
rekrunner wrote:
Looks like local doctors play a prominent role in many cases, either intentionally or unwittingly.
But you need wait no longer for the first Kenyan. When Matthew Kisorio was busted for steroids, he sat down in an interview with Hajo Seppelt.
"Seppelt: He claims that he was incited by his doctor. With better results, which are easier by doping, an athlete earned money. The doctor wanted to have his share. The doctor has apparently given him injections of banned substances and also tablets. One of these tablets led to the alleged positive test."
A worthless "confession", if there is no follow-up, to punish that (still unnamed?) doctor and to find his other customers.
See Mark Schmidt as a positive example of follow-up from another country.
rekrunner wrote:
Could it be European coaches and managers?
"Seppelt: I can not imagine that the coaches and managers, who come mainly from Europe by the way, know nothing about it. But he did not accuse them in this interview."
So Seppelt doesn't trust his interviewee, not surprising. Doping works a lot better if intelligently weaved into the training...
Subway Surfers wrote:
Coevett wrote:
he cheated another 'clean' Kenyan guy out of a place on the Kenyan team.
I'm not sure how deep the rabbit hole is anymore. If the list for some events is very long and really rotten, the first clean guy might not meet the qualifying standards.
Ouch.
And yet the 'scientists' are still trying to explain Kenyan success. Almost a sick joke at this stage..
https://qz.com/africa/1628684/why-kenyans-keep-winning-marathons-long-distance-races/
A Kenyan writing about Kenyans. What do you expect.
Armstronglivs wrote:
A Kenyan writing about Kenyans. What do you expect.
2:01 really is a FloJo time, 1:59 is a Koch time.