Billy Konchellah the 87 world champion and who arguably started the era of African domination, also had moved to the USA. Given his subsequent conviction for drugging and raping children, you'd have to be crazy to believe he wouldn't have been taking any substance he could get his hands on to win. There was also another thread which claimed that another runner had heard him admit to taking drugs.
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
Bad Wigins wrote:
two things:
1) FREE JAKIR to comment on this.
2) I recently tried to explain to a lot of idiots why Mo Farah moving to marathon made no sense, when he was the second best 1500 runner without even training for it. Now he's the best 1500 runner of the past 5 years, without even training for it. Whereas his marathon progression shows he will probably never even be top 10 at the pinnacle of his career at the distance.
He would have been an average fish in a competitive current. There have been some ridiculously fast 1500m times the past ten years. Maybe Mo could have pushed Kiprop to the line the day Kiprop ran 3:26.X.
From 5k up he could jog 90% of the race and waste scrubs over the last quarter off of slow paces.
All you need to know about Mo Farah is he only time trialed the 1500m— never contesting it in a Championship—(and he still never stuck to the leaders..) and also never really attacked the 5/10k in any meaningful sense but was satisfied to lap up medals.
Mo Farah will PR at the double half mary again but never win a major unless the field is watered down.
The bottom line: Kenyans still can't access the superior (undetectable) drugs that next-gen EPO?
Maybe with more positives (+) turning up, there will be more incentive to invest in the future.
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
Ok but where are all the high tech doping sub 205 North American marathoners?
Do not make this about race. It's about opportunity available in respective countries. What we see is that a non East African can win a marathon major ONLY if the pace is very slow for this day and age (Chicago, Boston, NYC) the last couple of years, and then only rarely.
It would be foolish to think no one in N. America is doping, but I really do think it is of a lesser percentage than East Africa, and again it is due to availability, testing, and financial incentive. Not race or some other whacky moral or ethical argument.
Coevett wrote:
Billy Konchellah the 87 world champion and who arguably started the era of African domination, also had moved to the USA. Given his subsequent conviction for drugging and raping children, you'd have to be crazy to believe he wouldn't have been taking any substance he could get his hands on to win. There was also another thread which claimed that another runner had heard him admit to taking drugs.
Ummm ever heard of Kip Keino
(or Bikila)
(or Yifter)
El Keniano wrote:
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
Please El Keniano, explain HOW or WHY OOC testing is better than Kenya than it is anywhere else
El Keniano wrote:
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
There is not one single WADA affiliated drug testing laboratory in East Africa, let alone Kenya. If Kenya is now getting serious on drug testing (after being forced to through threat of suspension), then I wouldn't be surprised if this trickle of busts becomes a flood. Maybe a few big names will suddenly decide to retire this year, rather like El G did in 2004.
As for 'Alternate Theories', every top Kenyan runner could be busted, and not one European or American, and you freaks would still play the racism card rather than accept that the myth of East African supremacy is dead.
El Keniano wrote:
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
This is a non-sense statement. There are more Kenyan busts because there are more Kenyan dopers. Lance Armstrong was way bigger "fish" than any runner and USADA went above and beyond to bring him down.
The fact is, in America you can almost certainly make more by getting a normal job can you ever will from distance running. The incentive to dope is so much less when even if you win, you aren't making money like the big sport stars do.
NOP Defender wrote:
He was the favorite in Rio. Centrowicz was a shocker. The shocker walks away clean while the favorite is a cheater. Interesting.
Alternative theory: Kiprop EPO was "known" to Coe and secret crew, and they "black-mailed" him (and/or bribed) to allow the "clubby" Centro win. Guess now he's sufficiently unuseful, so they expose.
El Keniano stays home DEVESTATED!
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
3) Africans are finally being tested in some measure after getting a freebie for two decades. Still no unannounced OOC blood testing. Tip of the Fing African iceberg. Ethios still can hide.
Coevett wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
There is not one single WADA affiliated drug testing laboratory in East Africa, let alone Kenya. If Kenya is now getting serious on drug testing (after being forced to through threat of suspension), then I wouldn't be surprised if this trickle of busts becomes a flood. Maybe a few big names will suddenly decide to retire this year, rather like El G did in 2004.
As for 'Alternate Theories', every top Kenyan runner could be busted, and not one European or American, and you freaks would still play the racism card rather than accept that the myth of East African supremacy is dead.
No doubt if the OOC even happened in Kenya (I would be surprised) it might have been his first there and why he was busted.
El K, we have said that there is a very big doping problem in Kenya that makes it impossible for us to admire what would otherwise still be a remarkable degree of talent and depth unprecedented in world history. There has not been serious testing in Kenya for very long and even the testing there was was largely announced in advance, subject to bribes and extortion with Athletics Kenya, and limited to urine testing. There is more now and it shows, but this is a big problem and needs to be acknowledged as such without going to the old anti-colonial excuse that the West, which gives large amounts of aid to East African nations, is out to get them. (Maybe Trump is, but that's not the Western norm). There have been well over fifty tests. This is not only a Kenyan problem. It is also an Ethiopian problem where there is more of a national doping system, also ready availability in country for pennies, very little or nothing in the way of national testing, and also control of athletes by shady European agents and doctors, many of them from Italy, the leading doper in the article you link, and the Netherlands, as well as Eastern Europe for Ethiopia, with its old Eastern Bloc ties (remember the Soviet era agent 10 Ethiopian athletes tested positive for?). Other major doping countries and regions are obviously the Eastern Bloc, especially, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and Russia, China in the recent past, Turkey, Spain, and the North African countries of Algeria and Morocco. American sprinters have a long record of doping in great numbers as well. American distance runners do not have a long record of doping in great numbers, though there have been quite a few questionable runners--Salazar and his group, the NOP, his older group, Athletics West, his athlete, Mary Slaney in 1996.
Asbel Kiprop was an extraordinary athlete who seemed to break the mold with his impossibly long, thin frame, who could move from the back of the pack to the front effortlessly and could win kicker's races and fast Monaco races. He was very likeable and affable. It's a shame but also it is a good sign that some of the top athletes of the last decade outside Russia are being nabbed finally. For too many years, it would be just the small fry, whether out of fear of loss of revenue or because the big fish had the money to beat the tests or bribe/pay extortion fees to the IAAF and their national federations.
2008 Olympic third place finisher, Nick Willis, previously elevated to silver, now ought really to be elevated to gold--maybe a re-test is in order, because this test will probably knock Kiprop out of no championships from the past.
If he were elevated to gold, that would make him one of the most decorated Olympic 1500m runners. Currently, he stands at #7 with a silver and a bronze (from 2016). Ahead of him are, among others, Coe, Keino, El Guerrouj, Morceli, and Makh Daddy, four of whom were probably blood dopers/epo users. Gold and Bronze would put Willis tied for #6 with Luigi Beccali of Italy from 1932/36.
El Keniano wrote:
Alternate theories wrote:
So here are two theories as to why Kenyans are getting busted and western white guys aren't.
1. White guys have better access to labs/private testing/info about microdosing/tipoffs about OOC test visits
2. Only black guys are doping.
Hmm. Wonder which I'd pick?
OOC testing in Kenya is BETTER than in Europe or America!
Dude, just stop while you're ahead.
Well over fifty positive tests. I do not know how many of those were conducted in Kenya.
How elite running really works wrote:
Alternative theory: Kiprop EPO was "known" to Coe and secret crew, and they "black-mailed" him (and/or bribed) to allow the "clubby" Centro win. Guess now he's sufficiently unuseful, so they expose.
Yep, Blacks are puppeteered by Whites in Charge for as long as they bring in the $$$, and then are discarded under the sideshow when they fail to know their place. That's how Global Sports in Africa is run.
Coevett wrote:
at the creation wrote:
It was the summer of 1989 when 28-year-old Yobes Ondieki showed a form he had never shown before.
The world would never be the same. It's not just the 1500m. It's not just middle distance. It's everything and everyone. Americans and Euros and Brits as well as Africans.
The IAAF can't admit this but there's no excuse for the objective observer to adopt the ostrich position.
And yes, micro-dosing does work.
https://www.si.com/vault/1989/07/10/120169/big-show-in-oslo-africas-indomitable-runners-led-the-way-in-the-best-track-meet-since-seoulIt was 88 when Kenyans athletes like Ereng and Rono suddenly started showing form they had never shown before. Clinical research EPO was probably already filtering through to American based Kenyans such as ...Ereng (moved to USA in1987) and Rono (moved to USA in 1987).
But please, stop the craap about everybody was doing it. The Brits and Americans (leaving aside Lagat) clearly weren't or they would have been faster not slower.
Brits didn't destroy track and field. EPO didn't destroy track and field. Kenyans and Moroccans taking EPO destroyed track and field.
Please, lay down the crack pipe, while there is no doubt that Kenyan long distance running is EPO fueled, it is simply impossible that two Kenyan immigrants could have got hand on research chemical that wasn't approved by FDA by 1987.
It was 1987, not 2017, things weren't easily accessible then (you obviously don't work in the field).
The first known illegal usage of EPO, happened with the death of a few dutch cyclists in the early 1990s . Who are the Kenyans who died for using EPO then? Had Ereng been able to use it, he would have probably abused it
The theory is that when a certain (well known) dutch manager saw the results in cycling , he saw the opportunity with East Africans...
F this sport. I've had it.
Kiprop wasn't in the top seven of Olympic 1500m medalists, but he was tied for #2 at World's with Morceli, with 3 medals, all gold. El G had four gold and one silver, then came Lagat at #4, then Ramzi, Bile, Cacho, Centro, and Estevez.
If Kiprop ultimately vacates his World titles, then the questionable Silas Kiplagat (extremely consistent in the Diamond League, usually subpar in championships) gets gold in 2011, Centro moves up from bronze to silver, and then in 2013, Centro moves up from silver to gold. That would give Centro the following medals: 2011 Silver, 2013 Gold, 2016 Gold Indoors and Out.
Centro is surely also due a medal from 2012, when he finished fourth, but 1) he was a Salazar guy so we may question whether he was cheating via Salazar sauce, and 2) Makh Daddy and Iguider have not yet tested positive. If Makh Daddy was clean when he was away from Aden, as Evan Scully claims, 2012 still seems dubious. Iguider would move up to silver in 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1500_metres_at_the_World_Championships_in_Athletics