Let me pose this question:
If PEDs came into major play @1995 (sub 2:07), what is the list of names who have run sub 2:10 since then who are unquestionably clean beyond a shadow of a doubt? Meaning old school—nothing more than a one-a-day multi-vitamin in the morning and a couple of advils at night. I don't think the list is all that long.
Jordan won 2 Foot Locker National Championships and was a multiple time All-American in XC and Track...you make it seem like she was a JV runner catapulted into the World Championships,
ronkitaus@yahoo.com wrote:
we are being tainted by an organization and fans that continue to make innuendo with no proof. USADA either has to show proof or shut the hell up. as for athletes who are too shallow to reward great efforts without proof, i say get another occupation. what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? this crap has been going on for years. salazaar replied more than a year ago and i have yet to see an intelligent reply. for it even leaking like this USADA officials should be fired. meanwhile, the best american runners we have had in a coons age are having their reputations damaged on a monthly basis.
If you search for post Chicago Marathon news articles, you will only see Letsrun talking about Rupp, Hasay and drugs. Outside of this anti-NOP crusade there is much less frequent innuendo. And given the it is easy to use multiple identities and IP addresses, there are probably far fewer people on the crusade than appears.
Until this weekend I thought they were clean but for Shalane and Men to publicly question NOP I no longer believe they are PED free.
Make America Fast Again wrote:
Fentrekker wrote:I think she knows very well who signs her paycheck and chose to have the courage to speak anyway. She's no dummy.
When you're the public face of a large corporation (pro athletes, executives, etc.) you will have very detailed non-disparagement clauses in your contract. Everyone does this.
When Shalane made this remark, she implied Nike employee Alberto Salazar is the person Rupp and Hasay are associating with, and this investigation is a reflection of who they are as people.
It was a very stupid remark. Nike could use this against her if they choose. If I'm a megalomaniac Nike director of global marketing, I'm asking Shalane, "Who's team are you on? Because it doesn't sound like you're on our team..."
I think it is obvious Nike made there decision about Shalane before she made the comments. This is a big Stain from a Nike employee , and your PR rep can't walk it back on twitter
Rumors on the NIKE campus are claiming that NIKE will in no-way renew Shalane's contract because of the deflating remarks against her fellow elite athletes who happen to run for the same NIKE company. As one poster said, where are her comments against her teammate Evan Jager? Hypocrite she is, indeed. Her career is finished anyway.
justinknow wrote:
Rumors on the NIKE campus are claiming that NIKE will in no-way renew Shalane's contract because of the deflating remarks against her fellow elite athletes who happen to run for the same NIKE company. As one poster said, where are her comments against her teammate Evan Jager? Hypocrite she is, indeed. Her career is finished anyway.
Good. I hope they fire her. She shouldn't be associated with them either as they are total scum in the running world. Nike is the equivalent of Harvey Weinstein.
Huapango wrote:
Americans are good at eating their own. Rupp has been a true professional, and respectful towards other American runners, and those he competes against. Without coaches like AlSal, American running would be nowhere, and this forum would be whining like babies about why the US sucks so much at running. It's a fu@#$%-up world in athletics, and until chages are made at the top, this is how it gets done. Meb and Shalane should stfu.
+100000
kw1954 wrote:
Let me pose this question:
If PEDs came into major play @1995 (sub 2:07), what is the list of names who have run sub 2:10 since then who are unquestionably clean beyond a shadow of a doubt? Meaning old school—nothing more than a one-a-day multi-vitamin in the morning and a couple of advils at night. I don't think the list is all that long.
Probably 0. This sport"s history shows how easy doping is and how much doping helps. And now we learned that - not surprisingly - 45% admiited to doping in 2011, which likely includes all medalists.
I think Flanagan's comments about Hasay are much more problematic than her comments about Rupp. I don't know how many times Flanagan has raced against Hasay, but I'm fairly certain that not only has Flanagan beaten her everytime, but beaten her badly. On the international level, Flanagan has run many superb races, won an Olympic silver, and placed third in the World Cross; nationally, she has been extremely successful over a very long career. Hasay has run one excellent half and two terrific marathons. Between those marathons she went back to the track and performed abysmally. Indeed, her PRs on the track are 15:28 and 31:39. Scarcely the times of someone cutting corners.
TrackCoach wrote:
I am a fan of both Meb and Shalane, but I found both of their comments distasteful, especially Shalane's comment about association. I assume the association she is referring to is AlSal. With that being the case, she has indicted Moser, Centro, Rowbury, Sifan Hassan, Clayton Murphy, Eric Jenkins, Rupp, Hasay and a few others. None of these athletes have had performances that anyone should say a clean athlete is not capable of. NOP has not produced a Joyciline Jepkosgei, Genzebe Dibaba, Almaz Ayana or a 2:02 marathoner type athlete. If NOP relies on PEDs, perhaps they aren't taking the right ones. In terms of Chicago, only a fool would think Rupp needed PEDs to run a 2:09 marathon. Jordan ran 1:08 in her first half marathon and 2:23 in her first marathon, finishing 3rd Chicago is a major accomplishment, but not so much that anyone should say it was fueled by PEDs.
Dopers are caught by failing a drug test, BP, analytical findings and missing several whereabouts, if either of these things were the case, an NOP athlete would be banned by now. What is currently going on is a forensic investigation of AlSal, the likes of which at most will result is some type of sanction for improper use of prescription drugs or techniques, etc. However, that will have no bearing on the 2 American athletes who ran courageously in Chicago. - Shalane and Meb , please allow us to enjoy Chicago for at least a week.
Montesquieu wrote:
I think Flanagan's comments about Hasay are much more problematic than her comments about Rupp.
This is the biggest story. Especially when you consider Hasay's background and her recently deceased mother always had confidence she would be an outstanding marathoner.
She's a child prodigy, not living up to expectations on the track, mother dies unexpectedly, moves up to marathon, trains/races in memory of her mother, finds her niche as a runner. It's a heartwarming story.
No one has accused Hasay of PEDs in her career until Shalane Flanagan yesterday.
ronkitaus@yahoo.com wrote:
we are being tainted by an organization and fans that continue to make innuendo with no proof. USADA either has to show proof or shut the hell up. as for athletes who are too shallow to reward great efforts without proof, i say get another occupation. what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? this crap has been going on for years. salazaar replied more than a year ago and i have yet to see an intelligent reply. for it even leaking like this USADA officials should be fired. .
Ok , do you also say the same thing about Aden/Dibaba?
To everyone who thinks Rupp is definitely clean and the investigation has gone on too lng, do you also say the same thing about Aden/Dibaba?
Can't have it both was in my book.
So there is testing of athletes always. All are in doubt these days. Meb and Shalane both had surprising performances but I did not choose to suspect they had been doping or cheating. For now the same with Rupp and Hasay. As an old runner out jogging in Eugene in the last few years I have several times jogged past Hasay putting in extra miles. LR is starting to be tiring on this. You can say I told you so if something comes out, go ahead, but until then I find myself more and more disappointed by you. I find Paula Radcliffe about 10x more suspicious than Rupp or Hasay, but innocent until proven guilty and all that is still my way to look at things. If these athletes have insider proof, speak up. If not, tune it down. Nick Willis has dropped off my respected runner list. Like Meb he has impressive times at an advanced age. Or suspicious. I chose impressive, but those who scream the loudest are sometimes those who have something to cover up. Attention diversion 101.
You could have phased it .." To everyone who thinks Rupp is definitely DIRTY and the investigation has gone on too long" ... then why no sanctions ?
Well, Jordan's two marathons don't make sense to me - exceed any expectations for her that I had based on performances on the track over her earlier career (which was good, but not predictive of being competitive at a world level). But her career at NOP started after all the noise and fury about Salazar, Rupp and NOP. So I really don't believe she is "guilty", not because I start with that assumption of innocence but because there is absolutely no evidence to believe otherwise. And this is in marked contrast to Rupp's history with Salazar, Dr. Brown, thyroid medicine and all that, where your assumption of guilt might be plausible (and still might not be true).
rojo wrote:
Looking for clarity wrote:I like Shalane and Meb. They have been great competitors and great to watch. I think they could be clearer and Gault could ask some clarifying questions.
It sounds like they are saying we should be skeptical of, and not congratulate, anyone who:
- Runs or ran for NOP - those athletes, even their friends, who ran for NOP chose to associate with Salazar for years, right? And the investigation is broad and never closes. So should we have questions about everyone? Why / why not?
- Was / is a patient of Dr. Brown? They may have non-NOP friends who went to that Dr. right? Friends coached by their own coaches perhaps?
- Improved their times a lot ( that may just be a Rojo standard in this thread)
Doesn’t this net a lot of people? Can we get a list of people who saw Dr Brown? How about people who improved their mile times at 25 or older? Improved their 5000 times by 15 seconds in a year in their mid 20s. Improved their PR substantially to win a medal at the WC?
Does it net a lot of people? Absolutely.
What's so bad about that?
I basically start with the assumption that everyone might be guilty . It's easier to start with the assumption everyone might be guilty. Start skeptical and see if the performances make sense to you.
another data point wrote:
The Nike Androgen Project wrote:I think this argument often works, but probably not in a case like this, when you have a lab report showing that Salazar already had him on testosterone when he was in high school.
(I know, I know . . . Salazar says it was a typo.)
He was taking something like testaboost, a "testosterone medication" but not actually testosterone
But you know that's not what the lab report said, right?
I refuse to believe that Hasay takes drugs. I expected better from someone like Shalane
The Nike Androgen Project wrote:
another data point wrote:He was taking something like testaboost, a "testosterone medication" but not actually testosterone
But you know that's not what the lab report said, right?
But you know that Slazar told Magness to talk to Dr. Myhre about the discrepancy, but he never bothered, right? Magness didn't really believe that a 16 year old Rupp was taking testosterone. He seized upon the issue once he was canned from NOP and had an axe to grind..
Two days after Jordan Hasay beats Shalane's fastest marathon time, Shalane strongly implies that Jordan is doing something wrong. Why did'nt Shalane bring up this point two or three years ago.
Shalane brings it up now when Jordan and her family are experiencing great JOY. Less than a year ago Jordan's mom died. Way to go Shalane!!!
Make America Fast Again wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:I think Flanagan's comments about Hasay are much more problematic than her comments about Rupp.
This is the biggest story. Especially when you consider Hasay's background and her recently deceased mother always had confidence she would be an outstanding marathoner.
She's a child prodigy, not living up to expectations on the track, mother dies unexpectedly, moves up to marathon, trains/races in memory of her mother, finds her niche as a runner. It's a heartwarming story.
No one has accused Hasay of PEDs in her career until Shalane Flanagan yesterday.
Provide said comments/accusations guys.