laugher wrote:Oh really?
Then how come other ethnic groups cannot replicate them?
Why does'nt everyone else just dope like crazy and win every major city marathon available?
It's a good question, perhaps there is an East African gene that makes them more likely to cheat and dope??
Naturalrun wrote:
After Hearing Abeba Aregawi testing positive, I felt entitled to give me opinion on the most annoying message board in the running community. well I know I am not going to get a good feedback on this but after following running for 10 years and participating in running for 10 years, I would like to express my feeling on doping and distance running. I want to write about doping on distance running only because I do not know much about sprinting. First of all my opinion on human limit, I think men are capable of running 12:55-13.00 flat for 5km. 26-50-27 for the 10km. 59:30-1 hour for 21km, and 2:06-2:08 for the 42km. Anything faster than those times, there is something added, it could be something natural resource that are not accessible to everyone or it could be enhance substance that are prohibited in distance running.
Here is the people that I Think are doping anyone who ran faster than 12:55 and it does not matter if he is white, black, Kenyan or Ethiopian, he is not clean, the same for the 10km, 21km, 42km.
So lets take a look on the best distance runners over the past 20 years.
Haile gebresslassie, 5km pr 12:39 and 10km pr 26:22 and half marathon 58:55 marathon 2:03:59. Was Haile Clean ? well at some point yes but he was not clean his whole career.
Daniel Komen: 3km 7:20 WK, 12:39 5km. Was he clean? at some point yes but he was not clean when he run those world records.
Bob Kennedy: 7:30 3km, 12:58km 5km. Was bob Kennedy clean? yes he was clean until the time he broke the 13minute 5km. then right after that I am not sure he was clean. He trained with Kenyans for while but I do not much about him.
Kenenisa Bekele, 3km 7:25 5km 12:37 and 10km 26:17. Was Kenenisa Clean? well yes at some point but not when he was broking the WR.
Zeresnay Tadesse, 10km 26:37, 21km 58:23WR. Was Tadesse Clean? Absolutely yes, I trained with him but At some point around 2007, Tadesse changed to different person. So I do not think he was or he is clean.
Eliud KipchogeL: very fast running on the track and road. with 12:46 5km and 2:04 Marathon pr. Is clean ? not right now.
Mo Farah: 5km 12:53 and 10km 26:44. Is Mo clean? well he was clean until 2010 but after that I do not think so.
Galen Rupp: 5km 12:58, 26:46 10km, Is Rupp Clean? Well he was clean when he was very young, when he get out of high school. After that I do not think so.
Meb. 5km 13:10 and 27:10 10km. Was or is Meb Clean? yes absolutely. I think Meb is clean. And here is why I think he is clean.
Meb is on the range where I think, is possible to run for men. and every time Meb finishes a race, he looks very tired and beat up. while every one else I mentioned above do not seem to be bothered by the fast time they run. Like when Haile run the world record for the 5km. The same goes to Bekele when he run the last 6 laps to broke the already impossible 5km world record and the same goes to Komen and Rupp. When rupp ran the 2 mile U.S record, he went to do a work out. Which is very suspicions.
Do not just think I am just blaming those people, I am myself is a good runner, and I know how it feels when you run 4 minute a mile. but those people make it seems it is like nothing. And we start believing, they are clean but it is not easy to almost 4 minute a mile for 3 mile straight. or to run 4:41 mile for 26 mile.
This is just my opinion so do Judge to much. pay attention on how those people look when the finish a race, you will see the difference.
Myself and naturalrun are the only posters here who have been elite, or near elite, or known WR-holders...or even been around elites and WR-holders, apparently.
And to the MORON track coach who whined that "you just can't put limits on human performance"........: BULLCRAP Is anyone going to go out and run a 3:00 5k? You stupid F. There's absolutely limits, stop being such a stupid apologetic F mechanically repeating your garbage PC mantra.
THINK before you type. What you're saying is idiotic.
there might be an African gene that makes them good responders to
dope. This would kill the "hypothesis" of coach Conowava that
it doesn't work on Africans!!!!!!
ChumpRunner wrote:
How does Meldonium affect an athlete's performance? Apparently, it's popular in Russia and other eastern countries. Hmm...
It doesn't improve performance, it's fatty acid oxidation inhibitor. It's used for people with heart problems. It's banned for health reasons.
Just another example of druggie stupidity. Who the heck gave her that stuff?
Jon Orange wrote:
ChumpRunner wrote:How does Meldonium affect an athlete's performance? Apparently, it's popular in Russia and other eastern countries. Hmm...
It doesn't improve performance, it's fatty acid oxidation inhibitor. It's used for people with heart problems. It's banned for health reasons.
Just another example of druggie stupidity. Who the heck gave her that stuff?
What health reasons? The side effects are nothing. Just another example of you believing what you want to believe?
You believe in drugs, you don't believe in the ability of the human body to run those time naturally.
You people are part of the drug problem, the reason why we have a drug problem. Which idiot gave her this stuff?
Devil Dog wrote:
Jenny to get another gold?
Any proof that Jenny is not doping herself?
Declaring the race null and void instead would be most logical course of action. Like they did with Lance Armstrong's tour de France results.
At the end of the day this not that important. We are talking about a competition between a protected massively overpaid subcategory of runners, none of whom would be ranked in the world's top 1000 in open competition.
agip wrote:
"no kidding. I wrote on this or a different thread the same thing you are writing. that I can't really follow the sport anymore other than a dozen or so handpicked athletes I have faith in.
It just rubs me wrong when the EVERYONE claim is made. I jusst don't believe that is possible. Mary Cain? Molly Huddle? enfield? Ritz? Jenny S? I think the EVERYONE claim is as silly as saying there are just a few bad apples. "
OK, fair enough. I have my short list of "cleans" that I root for. If one of them gets busted my faith in the integrity of this sport will take a huge hit. It's not EVERYONE. But the pool gets bigger by the day.
I guarantee you their performance was 100% due to doping.
More like 110%. They were doped before they were born. They doped in the womb. Their DNA is full of dope, the dirty dopers.
Don't feed the troll. He has been shown to post nothing of value, post nothing to back up his claims, and to avoid truths and logical conclusions. Don't respond to Jon Orange, as his character only survives so much as people respond to it.
[I am going to copy and past this every time someone responds to him, from now on.]
aduck2002 wrote:
cera was 1/2 injections a month
sure bekele find minute alone in month
same for shaheen nd other qatari tat used, canova
Quack
The whole PED concept is nonsense. Runners still have to produce sustained power through the feet and ankles. There is no drug to give you that skill.
Why don't runners understand that running is a skill?
That's not trolling, that's basic physiology.
BASIC PHYSIOLOGY ANYONE???????????????????????????
Hitler69 wrote:
What do the people in the list below have in common?
Morocco - Rashid Ramzi
Ethiopia -Abeba Aregawi
Kenya - Isaiah Kiplagat
Turkey -Asli Cakir Alptekin
Canada - Ben Johnson
Spain - Josephine Onyia
Russia - Anna Lukyanova
USA - Michael Jackson
Jamaica - Asafa Powell
They're all going to hell?
The drug believers are getting quite desperate, convinced of ridiculous claims that have no base in reality.
Finally someone with brains wrote:
coach d wrote:There ARE no distance genes. We now know how they got that way, and the truth isn't pretty.
Thank you for someone finally saying it! The whole Kalenjin farce gets me riled up. People like Tim Noakes (of The Lore of Running) conveniently ignores the fact that these guys have been able to dope like crazy. He also raves about Salazar and we know how dodgy he is. Sorry for off topic rant.
No sprint genes, either? It's complete coincidence that the majority of elite sprinters are of West African heritage?
druglord wrote:
In a true dirt-free running scene there would be more parity especially since training has been more or less the same for decades. There is no magic and there is no such thing as a group of people being genetically superior to another race in running. Bullshit. We haven't had time enough to evolve to those distinctions.
But with more exponents of significant talent. Why have NBA records shifted from mostly white people 60 years ago to mostly black people?
And training and diet have improved. Henry Rono ran multiple world records while being a alcoholic and you don't think he could have run quite a bit faster had he been sober?
arte wrote:
angry willy wrote:Rowbury had some interesting companions in 2012.
"The 2013 world championships were Aregawi’s first major global championships for Sweden. While still running for Ethiopia in 2012, she was sixth in the 1500 meters, one place ahead of American Shannon Rowbury, at the London Olympics.
That 1500 meters at the 2012 Games may be one the most drug-tainted Olympic distance finals ever. Asli Cakir Alptekin, of Turkey, was awarded the gold medal but has since been stripped of the title and suspended for doping. Fourth-place finisher Tatyana Tomashova of Russia served a drug suspension of more than two years between the 2008 and 2012 Olympics, and seventh and ninth-place finishers Natallia Kareiva of Belarus and Ekaterina Kostetskaya of Russia were also disqualified for drug offenses"
Just sayin' ;-)
If I remember right (and I may have the years wrong), Rowbury changed coaches in 2007, went from a 4:10+ runner with a stress fracture to a 4:00 runner in 2008 at the age of 23. Good, clean American coaching - as evidenced by all the American sub-2:00 800m runners and around-4:00 1500m runners suddenly popping up around that time.
Those American middle distance runners, always getting cheated out of the medals by foreign dopers...
Rowbury, I would expect an undertrained college athlete to make a jump when they finish school and start training like a pro. I think Shannon only ran about 45 mpw in college.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Why have NBA records shifted from mostly white people 60 years ago to mostly black people?
Because they're more interested to play basketball.
Why not? ~ wrote:
Because they're more interested to play basketball.
White people are less interested in millions of dollars in contracts and the fame and glory that comes with being an NBA All-Star? They went from being interested in the 1950s to not being interested when there was more money available?