HEPS Track and Field 2012-13

Yes, I was a high school and college level thrower myself. I did the conversion in my thread. With a top flight thrower the conversion is typically 8 to 10 feet. Therefore, it is understandable that during freshman year kids who normally throw 60 or 70 feet, will be around 50 and 60 feet. That's for a Freshman.

A sophomore, who has benefited from a year or more of college level weight training and attention to technical detail, would begin to increase their distances, not stay the same or decrease. If this was the case with one 70 footer coming in I would say there is no significance. However, to have two 70 footers begin to decline is significant and speaks volumes of the program.

Glad to hear there is a new coach there. As a fan of these two kids, and knowing how difficult it is to surpass the 70 foot barrier, it's a shame to see such incredible talent squandered on a program that seems to not know the gems that they have

In all honesty, Coach Erickson was doing a great job with her squad prior to leaving. The HEPS podium was often covered in crimson for the throws side of things. She is also one of the ONLY female coaches to have coached a national champion in ANY throwing event. She knew what she was doing. It is true that *some* of Harvard's athletes have struggled over the past two years, but that can happen to any athlete or coach. Look at Mubarak at Penn State. He was one of the top recruits that year (66 shot, 210 hammer) and is just now getting close to being competitive at the national level, and he graduated high school in 2009. One of the largest mistakes people make is comparing athlete A to athlete B, especially when they have 0 knowledge of what that athlete is doing day-to-day. Maybe Glauser is injured? I know he tore his pectoral his senior year. Maybe Brode stopped training like he did in High School? One of the problems with the Ivy system is that once an athlete is in, they don't need to work hard to maintain their $$. They get the same financial award no matter what. Heck, they can commit, say they are totally going to be on the track team, get help with admissions, and just blow the team off once they are in.

Long post short, there are too many factors that go into an athletes training, practices, and school to make a judgement based on the failures of one or two athletes.

The season is young, and anything can happen at Heps.

Very solid points. I had not heard of any other extenuating factors like injuries, etc with the Harvard throwers. Perhaps that's the case here. My son and I took a visit to Harvard and got the strong impression that they viewed the team as more of a club than a competitive track program. It just did not come across that they knew how to manage national/international caliber athletes at all. This is why I was so dismayed to see the downward slope of the throwing performances there. As you said, the season is young and anything can happen. The throws will be quite exciting in the Spring; the discus and the shot could produce some top 10 national level distances.

Don't forget Michelle Eisenrich from Brown, who coached Craig Kinsley to a national championship in 2010 and in the London Olympics this past summer...

lovetothrowlong wrote:

Very solid points. I had not heard of any other extenuating factors like injuries, etc with the Harvard throwers. Perhaps that's the case here. My son and I took a visit to Harvard and got the strong impression that they viewed the team as more of a club than a competitive track program. .

I don't think that is the problem, at least from what I have seen, observed and been told.

It's not just the throwers. Take a look at the performance of the men's distance squad and compare it to the level of recruits they have gotten the past few years. And also ask why so many assistant coaches have left the program in recent months and years, including the throws coach. There is a common thread of unhappiness running though all of this and some other issues as well.

interesting. let's hope the new staff is the medicine this program needs.

so, which program does best with its throwers? i don't mean who has best athletes, but who does best with what the have.

There are three big hitters in the Ivies this Spring:

Mozia has already surpassed Nelson and is just a foot + of relegating Augie Wolf to #2. He's also a top points threat in discus and hammer.

Mattis of Penn has had a single throw with the 2k as a prep last year that would have won the Heps. Word is he never even had chance to practice with it.

Robins at Cornell comes in with a 221 jav, which i believe would be #1 in Heps.

If the kids from Harvard step up in shot and hammer, the Heps will have a national chps feel to it. we havent had this level of talent since the 80s and late 90s.

Should be fun, as anything can happen.

shazzuy wrote:

In all honesty, Coach Erickson was doing a great job with her squad prior to leaving. The HEPS podium was often covered in crimson for the throws side of things.

Yes, this is fair. In fact Harvard throwers may have cost Cornell a Heps title or two over the last couple years (something that I'm sure Princeton hopes they'll do again), and the camaraderie of their throws crew was noteworthy.

The fact is, things happen when kids move from high school to college. From personal coaching experience, I can say that the guys who were already sporting full beards in HS *sometimes* have more trouble adjusting to the college implements; other guys seem to "grow into" the college weights (to an outsider, it looks like Mozia might be one of these). As the Old Coach said: "A year of growth equals two years of coaching."

The Cantabs have done a fine job in recent Heps, and I would be surprised if they didn't produce in their home circle this month. OTOH it seems like Cornell might do pretty well outdoors...

With Rudy Winkler coming in next year at Cornell and the continued maturity of Mozia and Rhodes this is a formidable team for a few years to come. From their Spring schedules I see that Cornell and Penn team up against Oxford and Cambridge in Ithica in April. Does anyone know the history of this competition? It sounds like a great international good will event but I can't find any info on past events anywhere.

lovetothrowlong wrote:

From their Spring schedules I see that Cornell and Penn team up against Oxford and Cambridge in [Ithaca] in April. Does anyone know the history of this competition? It sounds like a great international good will event but I can't find any info on past events anywhere.

Versions of this one are very, very old. In an Oxford vs. Princeton/Cornell match, 80 years ago, Lovelock broke the world record for the mile by running 4:07.6.

More recently--and following the NCAA's rules of one foreign trip per quadrennium--Penn and Cornell have combined to compete against multiple British universities, culminating in a match versus Oxford and Cambridge. The most recent such trip to the British Isles was in 2010:

, with the Britishers having visited the U.S. the year before.

Now it's time for the Brits to visit again this spring; Cornell and Penn, typically based on results of a dual meet between the two, will field a mixed squad to make the "England trip" (not always limited to England, by the way) in 2014. On recent trips the majority of U.S. participants have come from Cornell, but Penn appears to be on the rise and should send a representative group next year.

Oxford-Cambridge comes over to the USA once every four years for a track competition tour. They will also compete against Harvard/Yale on April 16th. I believe Cornell and Penn have only been doing this competition since the 1950s, while Harvard/Yale men have been participating since 1899 (women joined in 1981).

Cornell and Penn, and Harvard/Yale also travel to England to compete against Oxford/Cambridge (typically during different years).

Typically, Oxford and Cambridge compete as one team, while Harvard and Yale compete as one team but Cornell and Penn compete as two teams.

2010 Cornell Preview of their OC Trip:

http://cornellbigred.com/news/2010/6/14/MTRACK_0614103244.aspx

2011 Harvard Preview of their OC Trip:

http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/track/2010-11/releases/2011061624mt6m

C/M Runner wrote:

Typically, Oxford and Cambridge compete as one team, while Harvard and Yale compete as one team but Cornell and Penn compete as two teams.

2010 Cornell Preview of their OC Trip:

http://cornellbigred.com/news/2010/6/14/MTRACK_0614103244.aspx

Hmm. Quoting from the Cornell story that you linked to:

"On Monday evening, 18 men and 18 women from the Cornell track and field squads will depart for the United Kingdom and the quadrennial two-week tour of Great Britain, culminating with the decades-old rivalry with Oxford and Cambridge, contested at the historic Robert Bannister Track at Iffley Road in Oxford. As has been the case since the 1950s, the Big Red will be joining forces with Ivy League rivals Penn, who will send eight men and eight women on the tour."

Excellent! Thanks for the quick reply. What a phenomenal tradition this is. I can't think of another such matchup of storied institutions outside of the Ivies.

Yes, Penn does seem to be on the upswing. Dolan, Tenisci, Martin, Dobbs and Klim are getting that program back to resembling its competitive teams of the past. The kids seem to be buying into the direction that Dolan has set forth and the administration is behind him as well. Most important is that his runners are healthy and the kids are seeing good results.

BRF wrote:

Hmm. Quoting from the Cornell story that you linked to:

"On Monday evening, 18 men and 18 women from the Cornell track and field squads will depart for the United Kingdom and the quadrennial two-week tour of Great Britain, culminating with the decades-old rivalry with Oxford and Cambridge, contested at the historic Robert Bannister Track at Iffley Road in Oxford. As has been the case since the 1950s, the Big Red will be joining forces with Ivy League rivals Penn, who will send eight men and eight women on the tour."

Good catch, BRF. I thought I remember reading somewhere that they were separate teams, but after reviewing some of the older results, it is because the athletes are not listed as Cornell-Penn but Cornell or Penn (whereas at the Harvard-Yale meet, Harvard-Yale shared a uniform AND team name HY) (see image:

)

And now, I see images of Cornell/Penn sharing t-shirts.

My mistake.

BU Valentine Invite distance entries for the men have been released. 96 men in the 3000m, 73 men in the 5000m.

Ivy qualifiers:

3000m Run – men (96)

• Nick Wade (Cornell)

• John Schilkowsky (Cornell)

• Andy Arnold (Cornell)

• Nico Composto (Columbia)

• Dylan O’Sullivan (Dartmouth)

• Paul Snyder (Columbia)

• Ben Eversole (Columbia)

• Jon Gault (Dartmouth)

• Will Geoghegan (Dartmouth)

• Curtis King (Dartmouth)

• Erik Berg (Brown)

• Tim Gorman (Dartmouth)

• Jeff Bush (Brown)

• Brendan Boyle (Brown)

• Matthew Pierce (Dartmouth)

• Anthony Anzvino (Dartmouth)

5000m Run – men (73)

• Mike Murphy (Columbia)

• Phil Royer (Dartmouth)

• Leighton Spencer (Columbia)

• Jon Gault (Dartmouth)

• Max Groves (Cornell)

• Dylan O’Sullivan (Dartmouth)

• Jake Sienko (Columbia)

• Brett Kelly (Cornell)

• Kevin Johnson (Cornell)

• Matt McCullough (Cornell)

• Mark McGurrin (Brown)

• Brian Masterson (Dartmouth)

• Peter Geithner (Dartmouth)

Grrr--*still* no scores from Princeton's hept on the tfrrs listings. Come on, Princeton, get on the stick and submit those results! Grrr...

Lancer Timing has released the heat assignments for this weekend's BU Valentine Invitational:

http://www.lancertiming.com/results/winter13/BUValentine/BUValentineMenTrack2013.htm

Considering the weather that is supposed to be hitting the New England region tomorrow, I wonder how teams will adjust their weekend (aka if they will even travel for some of these meets). Harvard and Yale should be travelling down to Princeton tomorrow afternoon (maybe Saturday AM) for the annual HYP tri-meet, and I'm personally a little concerned about their travel weather (I'm currently planning to go to Princeton to watch the meet so I want there to be a meet! but team safety comes first) Any thoughts on this?

Ok, the Valentine's Invite has been cancelled due to the weather.

http://www.goterriers.com/sports/m-track/spec-rel/020713aaa.html

Looks like HYP will still go on.

Brown should be at MIT for their COED Meet II (no official cancellation yet).

Columbia and Penn will be at the Armory for the Lafayette Rider Invite.

Cornell will be at the Kane Invitational and the SPIRE Invitational in Cleveland.

Dartmouth throwers should be at the UNH Throws meet (no official cancellation yet).

Princeton and Dartmouth will have people at the Husky Classic. No word yet on which individuals yet, but I cannot find anyone on the Husky Invite heat sheets.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/124165854?access_key=key-2m5g07jl20m0u67b78i4

Thanks for the update, C/M. I had wondered how the various teams would cope.

Meet entries for Cornell's Kane meet are up:

http://cornellbigred.com/documents/2013/2/7/2013_Kane_Entry_List.pdf?id=5173

Obviously, for a lot of teams/athletes this is the last "big" weekend, with next weekend lower-key, then Heps. This storm really throws a spanner in the works, even for people like (most of) those at Cornell who planned to compete at home: how much "outside" competition will show up?

I do note that the Big Red apparently will have some people doing quasi-pentathlons this weekend; and it'll be interesting to see whether some of the folks--from Cornell and elsewhere--who were scheduled for the Valentine races will end up making the trek to Cleveland. I'm really not sure how many distance runners these non-NE meets can accommodate on short notice.