I don't think that Snell really ever ran seriously at 2-3 miles so any times you see would likely have been much slower than he could have produced if he'd had a serious go at those distances. But he did sometimes take cross country seriously.
I don't think that Snell really ever ran seriously at 2-3 miles so any times you see would likely have been much slower than he could have produced if he'd had a serious go at those distances. But he did sometimes take cross country seriously.
HRE wrote:
What about van Aaken seems extreme to you?
The dieting and the mileage.
And the 5 hours sleep per night ...
Well, I think I never question the supply of oxygen, or suggest we go anaerobic. I always talk in terms of lactate accumulation, or blood pH, which are things I know do happen. I guess this ventilatory threshold is roughly coincident with these other events.So when you suggested before, to start races and training in a low glycogen storage state to avoid acidosis, do you really just mean liver glycogen?
systems wrote:
Noakes is saying that we never run out of oxygen during intense exercize. And that the brain must protect the heart from anoxia which would cause heart failure.
The term "going anaerobic" refers to the crossing of the ventilatory threshold where we start to breath out an excess of carbon dioxide in response to metabolic acidosis, the acidification of the blood.
The extra efficiency in our running comes from a combination of stiffer muscles and more relaxed running. We get into that state, with the right warm-up, which doesn't have to be running, or even exercize because we get get into that state just by thinking about it a lot. This is called visualization and has been proven by studying brain activity.
Blood glucose comes from liver glycogen, yes.
Glycolysis from blood glucose: 2 molecules of Lactate, each accompanied by 2 molecules of ATP plus one hydrogen ion.
Glycogenolysis from muscle glycogen: 2 molecules of Lactate, each accompanied by 3 molecules of ATP with no extra hydrogen ion.
Muscle glycogen stores are 4 time as large as liver glycogen, and from this we get 50% more ATP per Lactate (3vs2 molecules) so, multiplying the 4 by the ratio of 3/2 we get six time as much ATP from muscle glycogen as we do from blood glucose.
systems wrote:
HRE wrote:What about van Aaken seems extreme to you?
The dieting and the mileage.
A lot of what he wrote on those topics was theoretical. I don't know of any athlete he coached who covered the "recommended" mileages he listed for their main racing distance. I recall that he said a 5,000 runner would ideally cover 25 kilometers a day. Norpoth may have had a 25 km day somewhere along the line but he probably averaged about half of that. And I never heard of any of his athletes eating only 1,000 calories a day. Again, he was making a point about eating lightly but the 1,000 calorie thing was theoretical.
systems wrote:
The extra efficiency in our running comes from a combination of stiffer muscles and more relaxed running. We get into that state, with the right warm-up, which doesn't have to be running, or even exercize because we get get into that state just by thinking about it a lot. This is called visualization and has been proven by studying brain activity.
You are completely and utterly nuts.
Muscle tension and running economy are well researched. Maybe this is completely new to you, but I have no idea why you should be so unaware of this?
Adrenalin release increases muscle tension and this mucsle tensiono is essential for good hard training and racing. How could you not know this?
rekrunner wrote:
Well, I think I never question the supply of oxygen, or suggest we go anaerobic. I always talk in terms of lactate accumulation, or blood pH, which are things I know do happen. I guess this ventilatory threshold is roughly coincident with these other events.
So when you suggested before, to start races and training in a low glycogen storage state to avoid acidosis, do you really just mean liver glycogen?
Liver and muscle glycogen. We have enough of both for about 30k of fast running. But how much we need depends of course on how long the race is. For a 10k race, perhaps 50%, for a sprint, much less. With pre-race nerves, we are obviously using up stored glycogen, but this also depends on how good our race conditioning is.
HRE wrote:
A lot of what he wrote on those topics was theoretical. I don't know of any athlete he coached who covered the "recommended" mileages he listed for their main racing distance. I recall that he said a 5,000 runner would ideally cover 25 kilometers a day. Norpoth may have had a 25 km day somewhere along the line but he probably averaged about half of that. And I never heard of any of his athletes eating only 1,000 calories a day. Again, he was making a point about eating lightly but the 1,000 calorie thing was theoretical.
Even 2000 kcals is too low for an average size male distance runner. I eat double that, and when I was at my thinnest I was also eating more than 4000 kcals per day average.
Well i am with you when it comes to what the mind can do. Also with the fact that being warmed up is a state of mind. It just so happens most people access this by warming up the physical. Where i may not be with you is that adrenaline and increased tone etc are not that important compared to what is important. Sure without the right range of tone or the right range of adrenaline in the system we won't be able to perform near our best, but to get into these right ranges is not very difficult and is something most athletes should have learned within a few months of serious training. There are a lot more difficult things to learn that this one.
Holding the optimum muscle tension for the duration of the race is the quest of every runner. For example, Bekele's 10000m record is 25 laps of 63 seconds. That is some serious motor control.
HRE: Paul is my dad, what do you wanna know about this period. I am lucky enough to have ALL of his training diaries here from that period...
ryanballinger wrote:
HRE: Paul is my dad, what do you wanna know about this period. I am lucky enough to have ALL of his training diaries here from that period...
Hi Ryan, my name is Bob Hodge and I knew your dad a bit back in the day. In fact I have a NZ Track Suit that I traded for with your dad.
It would be interesting to see his 1982 buildup for Fukuoka. I was not aware that he was directly coached by Arthur but that of course does not surprise me.
I have my running logs here for 1982:
http://www.bunnhill.com/bobhodge/TrainingLogs/training82.htmI was in that Fukuoka race with your dad.
Cheers, Bob
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