17 years old at the moment.
17 years old at the moment.
middle aged middle distance wrote:
Question on which training group I should join:
I'm 43 and ran 17:30 for 5k this year on the roads. my winter goal is to break 10 for 3000 meters.
I am on a team with two training groups: a middle distance group and a longer distance group. The mid d group will do workouts like 800/400/800/400 at mile pace, with a long rest. The longer d group rarely goes faster than 3k pace - usually more like 400m-1000m at 5k pace with short rest.
I am more of a strength type runner - I have comically poor speed. I doubt I could run 65 for a 400. I'm pretty good at maintaining 95% speed though. So 3k-5k is my sweet spot.
So my question is...do I train with the fast group to try to improve my speed? Or stay with what has been working with the VO2 max/slower group? I think I got pretty close to my potential this year with the slower group.
Long distance group
kindasucks wrote:
I have some all-over-the-place Personal Bests.
5k - 17:04
10 miler - 62:xx
half marathon - 1:18:38
Marathon - 2:55:58
The last time I ran a mile that i trained for was in HS and I ran a 4:38, and my sophomore year in college I ran a 2:01 800 and then stopped competing after that year for college.
I'm looking to continue running 10 milers, halfs, and fulls, but don't know where I should go from here (as in, what paces I should shoot for for each distance). I regularly run between 40-60miles per week and have peaked at just over 70 (while training for my one, and only, marathon).
Any advice?
I do, figure out what your goals are. That makes my or any ones advice worth even a penny. Till then we are just guessing
Young guy wrote:
17 years old at the moment.
You have more speed then you think.
I know plenty of people who have jumped from 4:30's to 4:teens in a year at your age.
Trust your coach.
I am 53 years old. 205 pounds of cookies and cake. Need to drop weight so I can be a runner again. I love to eat since I now wear glasses, am bald and am constantly saying speak up. Somehow my Johnson still works as I have sex 3 times a week.
Masters PR is 1;16 for a half and 17;10 5k and 5 minute miles before weight gain. Any hope for me ? How do I stop sugar cravings ?
TIA for all the advice so far.
Do you believe there is a strong causal connection (as opposed to merely a correlation) between VO2Max, and 5K / 10K / 13.1 / 26.2 pace? A good number of running friends, much faster than I, insist that as you improve your V02Max with track, all your other paces 'move with' your VO2Max.
I have my doubts ... I just believe that track workouts tend to work the things that improve paces at longer distances (e.g. running economy), but so do other workouts. Plus it's a safe assumption that someone doing track workouts is also doing other running, so I am not sure that people crediting track with improvements really have that evidence.
Point being, if someone is trying to improve their 10K or 13.1 time, I am being told that it is vital for them to work VO2Max. And I don't believe them. (I'm talking about local road racers at best, nothing faster.)
What are your thoughts?
Thanks much!
this is the deal wrote:
I am 53 years old. 205 pounds of cookies and cake. Need to drop weight so I can be a runner again. I love to eat since I now wear glasses, am bald and am constantly saying speak up. Somehow my Johnson still works as I have sex 3 times a week.
Masters PR is 1;16 for a half and 17;10 5k and 5 minute miles before weight gain. Any hope for me ? How do I stop sugar cravings ?
I'm impressed you have sex 3 times a week.
As for not eating sugar, I was once told duck tape over the mouth helps with losing wieght.
How much did you weigh when you ran those times? How old?
Thank you for the input.
Bored X Coach wrote:
middle aged middle distance wrote:Question on which training group I should join:
I'm 43 and ran 17:30 for 5k this year on the roads. my winter goal is to break 10 for 3000 meters.
I am on a team with two training groups: a middle distance group and a longer distance group. The mid d group will do workouts like 800/400/800/400 at mile pace, with a long rest. The longer d group rarely goes faster than 3k pace - usually more like 400m-1000m at 5k pace with short rest.
I am more of a strength type runner - I have comically poor speed. I doubt I could run 65 for a 400. I'm pretty good at maintaining 95% speed though. So 3k-5k is my sweet spot.
So my question is...do I train with the fast group to try to improve my speed? Or stay with what has been working with the VO2 max/slower group? I think I got pretty close to my potential this year with the slower group.
Long distance group
glad you said that - that's where I was leaning too. thanks.
Bean Taxi wrote:
TIA for all the advice so far.
Do you believe there is a strong causal connection (as opposed to merely a correlation) between VO2Max, and 5K / 10K / 13.1 / 26.2 pace? A good number of running friends, much faster than I, insist that as you improve your V02Max with track, all your other paces 'move with' your VO2Max.
I have my doubts ... I just believe that track workouts tend to work the things that improve paces at longer distances (e.g. running economy), but so do other workouts. Plus it's a safe assumption that someone doing track workouts is also doing other running, so I am not sure that people crediting track with improvements really have that evidence.
Point being, if someone is trying to improve their 10K or 13.1 time, I am being told that it is vital for them to work VO2Max. And I don't believe them. (I'm talking about local road racers at best, nothing faster.)
What are your thoughts?
Thanks much!
What do you consider VO2Max stuff? I want to make sure we are on the same page.
I was 165/170 lbs and 45 years old when I ran those times. Hurts to even say my former weight but I gain and lose quickly. I was 188 on September 1st.
I think your PR years are behind you. That being said, get healthy. 205 sounds like a rough place to be. Hell, I hope you go out, get healthy, and PR. Prove me wrong.
Very fair question. I guess I am talking about 2 things.
Thing 1: I have seen it cited (JD maybe?) that speed at LT is some fraction of speed at V02Max, and that for almost everyone this fraction falls in a certain range. And I have no problem believing that. But it seems this gets interpreted, that this fraction is a constant, and so improving V02Max 'magically' improves LT, even without threshold work, simply through the power of Math. And this I doubt.
Thing 2: I know some mid to back packers, who are trying to break 1:00 or so for 10K, on limited training. They are religiously doing track once a week, yet do no tempos. They seem to have been told that all distance paces are linked railroad cars, and so by improving their 400 they are inching that whole train down the track. And this I doubt also.
Is this helpful? Or have I just created 2 vague questions instead of 1?
I know my PR days are behind me but give me a reasonable goal. Do I run three miles a night five days a week to start or seven ? is 3 miles too much or should I do 2 ?
I'm happy when I'm 185 lbs as I am a former football player and 165 lbs looks like I'm frail and people ask if I have the big C.
Please give me a starting weekly running plan. Thanks !!
How much mileage would you suggest for the 800?
Bean Taxi wrote:
Very fair question. I guess I am talking about 2 things.
Thing 1: I have seen it cited (JD maybe?) that speed at LT is some fraction of speed at V02Max, and that for almost everyone this fraction falls in a certain range. And I have no problem believing that. But it seems this gets interpreted, that this fraction is a constant, and so improving V02Max 'magically' improves LT, even without threshold work, simply through the power of Math. And this I doubt.
Thing 2: I know some mid to back packers, who are trying to break 1:00 or so for 10K, on limited training. They are religiously doing track once a week, yet do no tempos. They seem to have been told that all distance paces are linked railroad cars, and so by improving their 400 they are inching that whole train down the track. And this I doubt also.
Is this helpful? Or have I just created 2 vague questions instead of 1?
2 vague questions.
Running speed once a week isn't an awful thing. But for the 10k if you can only pick one the tempo will help you a lot more.
No just because you run the 400 faster doesn't make you a better 10k runner.
Ufgjjjhfcccg wrote:
How much mileage would you suggest for the 800?
Depends on the runner
I'm a high schooler and am wondering which days I should do 2-a-days. Last season i got in the 70mi/week doing 3 days, but didn't have a good idea of which days to do them on. This season, I only plan on doing 3 of them a week, again. Should they be on workout days... easy days... ? Thanks.
'Most athletes hate Tempos and I don't blame them, but if you want to make jumps in fitness you need them.'
Are you kidding they ae hard;y the hardest session
You were coaching guys with a fair amount of talent don't kid yourself this BS:
'Tempo runs are your best friend. Every coach does them different.
McDonnell- start fast and hold on
Simmons/Walker/Louie- Progression style
Daniels-Steady'
is what made them good. Doing doubles, hard workouts and training hard is what made them run those times
( ) = edit, sorry about the previous post
I'm a high schooler and am wondering which days I should do 2-a-days. Last season i got in the 70mi/week doing 3 (2-a-days), but didn't have a good idea of which days to do them on. This season, I only plan on doing 3 of them a week, again. Should they be on workout days... easy days... ? Thanks.