50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

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Week 13

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Bump for the week.

Still slowly working back from the knee injury. I was able to get 21 or so miles in this week. I chose to increase from 15 to 20-ish by both increasing to 5 days running, but also making one run a little longer. I should also note that I don't really know exactly how far or how long I ran this week. I've chosen to put away the watch, and I only roughly know how far the runs were...but it should be about 21 give or take a mile; I did run one day harder. The knee felt mostly good (just a little tender after the 5+ mile run and 4 additional miles of walking yesterday); the legs (IT's especially) are much improved from last week. I feel really good that things are headed in the right direction, but I remain cautious. I can sense that too much twisting could set things back, so I try to stay in the middle of the road.

Topic: How central are hills to your training schedule. Are they incidental or deliberate? Is it just hills, or hill repeats? How do you use them? For me its mostly incidental, and I often use them as portions to work hard during any of my runs. In between seasons, however, I will do hill repeats probably once every 10 days or so (once my knee gets better) to build up strength.

Any racing to report? I know that Hood-to-Coast is coming up this weekend, so Muddy Girl (and others), I hope that you all run well and have a blast doing so (I know you will.) Some of the guys I've run a relay with ran in the Ragnar Great River Relay along the upper Missisippi River this weekend, so I'll get a report from them on how that one went.

Hope everyone is in a good place.

Thanks for bumping this along lucky2b. Welcome Skuj--I've seen you around LR for a long time--and good running Great Plains.

I didn't feel recovered from the half marathon on the 7th until this past Thursday (18th), when I did 10 miles with 6 mile tempo that included 10X 1 min surges. Always a tough workout, but feels good after you're done!

58 miles for the week--biggest since my NYC meltdown in 2009. The knee thing is always there, but something that I can manage.

Great week for the HS xc kids! A new school record for the top runner, and a bunch of PRs. My son a jr went 17:17 for a 5 sec PR, and the freshman was 18:56 in his debut.

Story is the long-time old coach didn't count flat races as 'real' xc so until last year, no one had been recorded to break 16. But now two guys have done it: twice each. Exciting to see them improve. The team's 2nd guy was just over, in 16:03. The big invites start in two weeks.

As for hills--all the time. More than half my runs have substantial hills. I do hill reps about once every two weeks.

A pleasing week.

Mon, a 2hr run with about 75 of that up on the rugged and steep trails of the Nat. Park and then down to the golf course for a barefoot lap and an easy trot home.

Tues, a 2hr mtn bike ride inc a couple of long rugged climbs.

Wed, 90mins on forest trails sloshing around in pouring rain. A long soak in the (very cold) lake.

Thu, 4 x 1k reps on the old railway easement in the forest. 4.10 uphill, 3.30 downhill, 3.50 u/h (too hard!!)and 3.35 d/h (buggered from rep 3). 60sec recs. and a 25min kyak and a soak in the lake.

Sat, a 45min kyak then on the mtn bike for a solid hour of rolling trails, followed by an hour run in the forest.

Sun, 5km warmup, 5km trail race. Hit a bit of form with a 19.13 although it is a pretty fast course and the trails had dried out nicely, 5km jog. 2d fastest 0/50 behind an 18.05.

My early training was influenced by Wardlaw and the Clohessy philosophy. Tuesday was very often an intense hill circuit. If not racing then saturday would be either a hill fartlek or a hiilclimb tempo run. Sunday was usually the long run in the Dandenongs with "The Pack" (often clinging to their coat-tails!!). This was a particularly hilly area of forest trails and roads.

Later on my racing preference moved towards mountain/hill races so more emphasis was put into long hill and mountain sessions. I used to do a 7.5km 10% gradient running 1 min. hard, 1 min. float. Also a 300 metre 30% gradient doing as many as 10 reps.

These days I do most of my running on hilly terrain. The ranges behind my home rise sharply, about 200 metres higher than my home. A 90 min. run will normally accumulate close to 600 metres of elevation. I sometimes do terrain running up there and can knockup 1000 metres of gain/loss inside 2hours. The steepest hill is just 600 metres long but gains 190m, plus lots of rock/log hopping. It doen't actually have any real trail just vague roo/wallaby tracks.

I also often will do a long hillclimb time trial if there is no race on the weekend.

I also sometimes do the "Dead Dogs". This run is over steep cow paddocks, most of the hills are at 20-30% gradient but some are much steeper. 100-120 mins of quad busting, a good one to sharpen downhill skills. It always ends in bloodshed though lol!

A run in any direction from my outpost involves traversing hills of all sorts. The predominant species is approx. 800 metres at 4-6% grade. I was never a strong climber, but in my younger years was a fearless descender and used to make up some lost ground in the process.

This spring I was incorporating some intense climbs up a 15% slope for repeats of 25-30 seconds, and was happy to see some very positive response in short order.

Our small town fair was this weekend. I really couldn't pass up the 5K fun run and was pleasantly surprised to post a 22:13. Nothing to write home about to be sure, but good enough for 19th of 253 OA, and 1st 60-69. Apparently some of the bike riding does transfer to running.

Had the pleasure of finding the Master's Column of Sept. "Running Times" featured one of my old college CC teammates. Kudos, Dave!! Other wise, all quiet in the shire.

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Week 14

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Well. Seems we've had an anemic August as far as this thread goes. I'm hoping that just means there are a lot of "other things" going on. For me that's true, especially as we crank up the new semester, get the daughter back into school, etc.. Haven't really checked in myself much on Letsrun.

Hope any of you all on the East Coast are doing well. A hurricane and an earthquake in the same week on the East Coast. Who'd a thunk it?

Last week I managed about 24 miles on 5 runs. All my runs were in the 4-5 mile range. I've still considered myself to be in recovery mode, so I didn't really track my miles and times, although I have a pretty good idea how far I ran. That said, I did run a couple of hard efforts just to see how the knee would respond, and it seems OK. So I think that I'll move out of recovery mode and back into training mode this week. I'll probably up the mileage to about 30 this week, and 35 next week. I may even sneak in a short tempo run.

Question for the week: When was the last time you really felt 100% (or close to it)? It doesn't have to be when you were fastest, just halest. For me, it's been since about April of last year (yes, a year and 1/2 ago.) That's the last time I felt like I could just get up and go. No loosening up necessary; no little niggles or aches anywhere. That was at the end of a base-building phase for last year, and prior to starting to do some track workouts. Even though I got faster over the summer, I also started to notice some niggles. Probably a harbinger that I should have payed attention to. Haven't felt quite the same since.

Anyone want to report on their races? How'd Hood-to-Coast go? Hope you're all having a great week.

As we get older the fast track workouts seem to catch up to us - gotta ease into them and build slowly on them - I first started noticing around age 42 or so.

Since I broke 30 for 5 miles two weeks ago, I got to thinking I might want to jump into a flat half-marathon. I'd be happy with a 1:23, so decided to see how I felt at 6:20 pace for half the distance or so - so I ran a 10k by myself at 6:20 pace (39:22)..25 laps solo is a drag. It was very humid and my shoes were squishing, but it didn't feel too bad, somewhat comfortable though I was feeling a bit heavy by the finish.

Still not sure if I'd be able to maintain that pace for another 7 miles - I rarely go longer than 10 miles, and average 60 per week.

Great Plains, try slowing that 6-7 mile tempo down to 6:30 or so. Easier on your body, and then you'll save it for race day. I did several at slower than HM pace over the summer, and had a good race the other week.

Race report--ran a hilly 5K xc yesterday. Not an all-around great experience race-wise, as I just felt sluggish from the start. Caught a nip of a cold (sore throat on Wed Thursday and little drip at night is most of it), but also slightly short of breath when exercising. Also did 3K of reps at pace on Tuesday and just did not feel recovered in time by Saturday. So this it? You have to wait 6 days now to recover from 3Ks of reps at 5K pace?

Anyway, the course is a series of 45 to 60 sec hills (I count 10), none steep, but 3-5% is enough to knock you back on your heels, with only a short recovery until the next hill. 18:44, for 9th place, 1st in AG and 2nd 40+. That's all well and good, but I just felt lacking and fighting to go slow. The top high school kids (sub 16 xc runners on a fast course) went 16:40s...so you get the differential.

Feeling good--funny that you ask. The last time I felt really good, on top of things was just about 2 years ago this month. Mind you, it's been 19 years since I felt really spry and svelte, but at age 50-51 I was feeling incredibly good, and was running 55 to 75 miles a week comfortably and racing well. Two years and one knee injury later, it's more difficult now.

Ah, Yes, I likewise felt very good 2 years ago. After besting a few locals that I'd never been able to touch, I went on a marathon binge and injured my left arch.

PF ensued and the 2010 season was up in smoke. Rest, biking, and X-c skiing has finally rehabbed the foot and I am tentatively testing the waters of running again.

Ran 4 days this week, 15 miles approx., along with 110 road bike miles.

Entered a 10K trail run this AM, which I completed painfree winning the 60+ AG by a little over 2 minutes. 9th of 35 overall. The first gal across the line was my second cousin, 20 seconds back of me. Tanya's 38 and is in her first year of doing any running competitively.

Cooldown consisted of a 12 mile MTB ride, 75 minutes in and out of the saddle.

I'm definitely getting the bug again. Think I'll call some old buds up North and see if there's any room on the "Birke trail run" relay teams.

The crucible that hold the flames of the fires that burn in all our souls is at once, both tough as nails, and fragile as porcelain.

Well, it's good to know that I'm not the only one that feels like they've been a bit sub-optimal for some time. Certainly, I don't feel as spry as I did in my youth; part of that is simply weight, and part of it is life-style, and part it must, therefore, be age-related (however that comes into play.)

Great Plains, sounds like you should be good to go. If you can tempo 10k by yourself on the track at 6:20, I see no reason that you can't go sub-2:23. You've certainly got enough mileage to go the distance, even if you haven't really thrown in many long, long runs.

AK-53, nice job on the XC race even if you say you felt sluggish. I can only imagine what those XC courses must be like in Alaska.

Love this thread. Feels like a family. :)

Since my last post I've run 24x in 15 days, mostly 30min jogs, plus a couple of sessions with 100s and 200s...just easing into 5min mile pace. Later I'll shorten the recoveries, then get into 300s, 400s, 600s, 800s, etc etc.

I made a thread about it, but I'm thinking that 2x most days, or 10-14x a week, will be great for me and my Mile/1500m/800m goals, but I'm also thinking that 4 miles maximum total per session will also be the right thing to do. This is not a laziness thing....more later.

Ditto on imagining those Alaskan cross country courses. I'd love to run one some day. At this point though, where my knee won't tolerate ANY uneven ground, I'd be thrilled just to run a hard cross country race anywhere.

God, now skujs troll has invaded this thread. Go away little man, this is a serious thread.

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Week 15

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Greetings all on this Labor Day Weekend. Just celebrated #52 (Bday) and #29 (wedding). We're having a great extended weekend.

Running this week was good, too. Continuing to rebuild mileage following the knee debacle. Managed 31 miles on 6 days, sticking to runs in the 4-6 range, still not using a watch, and not doing anything really hard yet. Yesterday, however, my run did include a steep 3/4 mile long hill that I ran down and then back up again. The knee is feeling pretty good, however, I took a dip in the pool at the motel we stayed at this weekend, and a frog kick definitely produces an uncomfortable stress, so the lateral motion is still a bit impaired.

Skuj, I hope those doubles are working out for you. msr was doing them all spring with pretty high mileage, but I believe I read Malmo saying that doubles are the way to go even when the mileage is in the low 40's; can't find the thread right now. Wish I had the proper motivation to do more of them....it's on my perpetual "things to aspire to" list.

Topic: The Gym. Any of you have a home gym or a gym membership? How often do you use the gym? What exercises do you do and what is your focus? I've never had a membership, and have rarely used one, but I could see some advantages especially during lousy weather and for doing cross-training and strength exercises. I have easy access to a very good one that is run by the University; the membership is reasonably priced and it is right near my work, so it's been on my mind.

Hope you are all having a great weekend with family and friends.

I just finished a 10-session week, after a couple of 9-10 session weeks, so next week might be 11-sessions.

And I'm having thoughts of maxing out at 10k per session, because I so want to race the odd 5k, haha.... I could do the odd 10k session, and all other sessions are shorter, I suppose. I'm so scared of overdoing it, don't want to revisit injury days again. We'll see.

Yesterday was the 50th anniversry of my first marathon. It was the Canadian Championships run in St Hyacynthe, Quebec "sous une chaleur accablante". It was a sunny 92 degrees and very humid. A few years ago Johnny Kelley, the younger told Patti that the weather was "brutal" that day. John won by 30 minutes in 2:31:50. It was one of the greatest marathon performances I have seen.

After I retired from working and had much more time on my hands, I started going to the gym. I do not always get to the gym but my schedule is supposed to be to alternate jog/walk days and gym days. I was injured when I started and the trainer set up a program for me to stretch and strengthen the body parts that have given me trouble throughout the years. My achilles tendons and back are looser than they have been for years. The program is not to build muscle or interfere with my jog/walking or the running/jogging I hope to do again some day.

I enjoy this thread and continue to lurk here to see how each of you are doing each week.

ImaDuck wrote:

10/11 sessions/week for someone 50+ seems too much.

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha...... (Keep in mind what thread you are trolling in.)

Always enjoy your contributions to letsrun, Orville, and I really wish you would write that book! :)

I haven't posted to this group in a year. I was a semi-regular poster when it started and through last summer, but I had nothing to post since then. Last summer after running 50-85 miles per week (and 12 races in August) trying to shake a dead feeling in my hip (my hip and back have given me problems for 25+ years), I had to stop running and decided it had to be a torn labrum. I was right, but it took until July 25 to get the surgery. sA soon as I woke up after the surgery, my hip felt great. Recovery has been easy and excellent. I expected so much worse due to how long I have been fighting this. I can't find anyone that has had this easy and quick of a recovery for a torn labrum, so I am thrilled.

At 4 four weeks post surgery I ran one mile 3 times, plus all the elliptical and spinning I had been doing. At 5 weeks I ran 3 miles. I did that every other day for a total of 12 miles this week. Tomorrow is just 6 weeks post surgery. I am training again, even if I am slow and fat. Boy does it feel good to run pain free and have a stability, balance, and strength in my hip that has been missing for so many years, I can feel my body and muscles reorganizing themselves each day to be more balanced and symmetrical due to all the compensations my body had created to keep running pain free. It will take awhile, but I will be a runner again, and I can't wait!

TDF, Great news! My you savor each step on the road to returned strength and running fitness.

Orville, your life and times recaps give me goose bumps. Thanks for sharing.

Last week was down abit with scarcely any running. 110 road bike miles and many hours of walking comprised the fitness landscape here. Chalk that up to an oppressive work load, moreso than fatigue or soreness, postrace.

Gym work has played minor parts in my running career. The few times I did engage in it I felt it to be beneficial.

My hamstrings act up at times. That's when I hit the machines.i.e. Restore muscle balance, to help dig out of that hole. A wiser man would do a regular regimen to prevent relapses. Unfortunately, a gym routine never held the allure of the open road.

I'm hoping to do a duathlon some time this fall. There's also a trail run along the shores of Lake Superior in 3 weeks that I've been wanting to do for awhile.

Relishing Fall, Good week to all.