Eddie Hellebuyck "'Yeah,' he says, 'I did it.'"

ghost wrote:

He cheated, but he did not deliberately take money from people. The EPO use enabled him to run faster,

How do you completely miss the connection? The EPO enabled him to run faster, thereby beating other people and therefore taking money they would have won.

Why is Eddie so vilified, yet in other sports where doping is common, the ones who are caught are not subjected to that type of psychological aggression?

You realize this logic is just a variation of the classic parental line "if Jimmy's mother let him jump off a bridge, does that mean I should let you as well?"

Why would you argue that running should compete with other sports in a race to the bottom?

It is sad for the guys who lost money, but once again, it is also sad that Eddie has been subjected to such venom.

And again, anyone who was not aware that such a response is a very real consequence of cheating, is being willfully ignorant. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

And if you don't believe me that it's all about him, go and look at his profile picture on Facebook: him with the two team trophies that the Ironwood Ridge kids won. Not him. The kids.

He is a pariah in New Mexico, and should be in Arizona. The coaches that know what's going on can't stand him, and the rest don't know enough about the sport to have any idea who he is.

ghost wrote:

I also gained a scholarship to Mansfield University, Pennsylvania, in 1980-82, where I ran the school indoor 3 mile record (14:42) at Bucknell in February 1981. That record, still stands in Mansfield.

And when was the last time anyone at that distance powerhouse actually competed in an indoor 3 miler (as opposed to a 5000)?

I understand your feelings about Eddy, and you are entitled to your opinions. But for every negative thing said about him, there are many who have positive things to say. Did you read the article? Even his detractors concede that Eddy has a certain charm, and did good to a lot of developing runners over the years he hosted runners in New Mexico.

It is human nature, unfortunately, to focus on negatives, and those (negatives) usually surpass the positives.

Now to the other poster who claims Steve Brace was juiced. That is slander and should not have been printed. During the years Steve ran big city marathons, he would have been tested. And the man had too much integrity to take something.

Yes, he retired relatively early, but not surprising, as he suffered from osteo arthritis in his knee and could not take the pounding any more. Did you know that in the last two years before he retired and including the years he ran his best marathons, including 2:10, Brace did all of his running around several rugby fields in his hometown in Wales! such was his dedication in keeping off the hard surfaces.

Here again we can witness the unsupported 'pointing the finger' at a decent runner (Brace) who was universally liked and appreciated by all who knew him. Brace now holds a key position in Athletics in Wales and vigorously campaings against doping. Had he doped he would, surely, have been reluctant to take on such an onerous task.

Ghost in Saudi, wwww.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.

I hear there were some people who had some really nice things to say about Charles Manson, too. I believe they were called his "family," or something...?

The point is, there will always be people like you who are willing to make apologies and excuses for someone who has continually shown us what kind of a crappy person they are. I'm sure there are still people out there who think that Stalin was a great guy! But it doesn't matter. Prevailing opinion states that he was a horrible man.

But I guess that's just people "focusing on the negatives," right?

Eddy sucks. He is an awful and selfish person. Good to see he admitted that he cheated, but it was after lying for a long time. If he is really sorry about what he did, he would pay back everything he stole, even if it means taking the bus instead of driving a hummer. Until then, he can say whatever he wants, I won't believe he is sincere.

And, his wife sucks even more, and that is really hard to do. I do feel sorry for his son though, and for his sake hopefully Eddy will stop being such a loser.

Not sure why we are bothering pointing out the obvious, but 2 real gems you had in this last one:

"Even his detractors concede that Eddy has a certain charm"

Well, lovely. I guess all should be forgiven, since he is charming. Let's only go after the non-charming crooks from now on, the charming ones we'll give a pass to.

and:

"Now to the other poster who claims Steve Brace was juiced. That is slander and should not have been printed. During the years Steve ran big city marathons, he would have been tested. And the man had too much integrity to take something."

You are aware, I hope, that many drug cheats pass lots of tests, if not all of them, before they are nailed by either a test that hit in the wrong time of their cycle, or by non-test evidence (drug purchases, testimony of others, lab records, etc). Marion Jones never failed a test. Regina Jacobs passed many before getting nailed. Even your saint Eddy passed a bunch of tests while cheating (fyi- it's not "allegedly" cheating when the guy admits to doing it), but only got caught because of good timing. And the list of people with "integrity" who end up taking something is a very long one. So if those are the only arguments in this guys defense, they aren't conviincing. But, what would be convincing to you? You still think a guy is an "alleged" cheater after a positive test and a tell-all confession. Hard to understand.

Ghost, you conveniently overlook the 5 year endorsement contract Eddy H. had with Saucony ($50,000 per annum plus bonuses). It wasn't just race winnings alone. That endorsement would have been better going to someone clean like John Tuttle or Tracy Lokken or Paul Aufdemberge or the Utah dude.

Yes, I am aware that some guys were never caught, because they were not tested during the correct time frame when EPO was in the system.

This is the first time Brace's name is mentioned with regard to EPO and it is all too easy, it seems, for anonymous posters to do that on this site. It is really not cool to do so, because Brace is the last person to want to dope.

Everyone in Wales and South West England knows about Brace's background. He was a rugby player (the 'national' sport in Wales) who turned to running to keep fit for rugby in the off season. He took part in a fun run and ran very well. Then he quickly took to the roads, long distances and did very well from the start, showing natural endurance. He quickly improved over most distances thanks to the good club system in Wales (Swansea harriers) at the time.

In those days - the early to late 80s - good runners trained in groups (like the Kenyans) and would run hard 10 mile runs through the streets of places like Cardiff, Newport, Swansea and small mining towns in Wales. Those were the days before the internet and the ipod. Hard running supplemented by hard drinking in the pubs was the routine these tough men adhered to, week after week, month after month, for years.....

Those Welsh and British working class heroes ran their guts out in training, and would then converge on the pubs after training to down copious amounts of ale. Often the evening would finish at the fish and chips shop. Brace was like that, and he ran all the club races. I saw the same thing in Ireland, in the late 60s and 70s with runners like Des McGann, Paddy Coyle, Danny McDaid, Donal Walsh and others......those were the days, and we will never get them back.

It is a pity to put his name (Brace) in association with illegal substances, because he would have been the last person to dope. On that one, I am sure everyone in the UK would agree.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

Ghost, if you are uncomfortable with the name Steve Brace, how about Khalid Skah....if Steve Brace is "the most unlikely to dope", then what about Khalid Skah????

Care to comment on that.

Adam??

Ghost,

That was me that posted as 'ghost?.' I didn't do that so others would think it was you. Clearly my comments are nothing like yours. I did that as in....Ghost, really? How can you be so ridiculous? Are you attempting to sound as dumb as you do or do you just not realize how pathetic your posts are?

But now that you have posted your times/best events, I am clearly arguing with a hack. This is my last post. I doubt you ever even met Eddy H.

I'll make an attempt to avoid reading anything you post from here on out as I doubt any of it comes with any experience or truth behind it.

You sucked me in. I thought I was arguing with an athlete.

I love this post. There's so much good stuff here. There's the 14:42 three-mile record that "still stands" at some university, there's the failure to follow a coach's instructions because you're just such a "maverick," there's the heartfelt thanks to some guy for giving you the "unique opportunity" of beating him in a five-mile race -- I love it all. (By the way, I once beat Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers in a five-mile race in a much, much faster time . . . . thank you, Frank and Bill, for that unique opportunity. And I'm not trying to blow my own horn here.)

And yes, I was familiar with your running history when I described you as a former recreational runner. The fact that you visited Morocco once and East Africa twice just makes you a former recreational runner who has visited Africa. And the fact that you hosted a few foreign athletes when they came to town for a race just makes you a running fan with a spare room. Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. Really. I'm not one of those who believe that you have to be a fast runner to have opinions about fast runners. It's a different matter, however, when you start spinning tales about the "integrity" of your alleged buddy Eddy or some other well-known cheat, or when you write fiction like this:

Keep in mind that there are impressionable young people on this site. Some of them may actually believe that you have some idea of what you're talking about.

I have been informed that Eddie gave this guy the interview and created the admission of "guilt" in order to get the internet board people off of his back. His only concern is for the children, with whom he is very charming, and he hoped that this story would bring closure to the issue, despite the fact that he is such an honest man who never touched EPO or any other illegal substance. It is very sad, but fortunately he has the wonderful woman in Shawn who will console him by polishing his trophy every night.

The drug accusers on this board should consider the feelings they are hurting and refrain from all the accusations, which are too easy to make.

This sad situation was told to me by a Moroccan friend, who is a Good Muslim, who would never deceive people as he reads the Qu'ran with regularity. Last season he improved from 3:57 to 3:34 for 1500m, the result of following a wholesome path in life, unlike the posters here who pester Eddie so badly.

I never wrote the above post, and the person who did is guilty of impersonation or usurpation of identity. Thank you.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

Yes, but people who post here, are presumably, make up their minds about who deserves credit or not.

I showed some of these posts to my non running colleagues at KFUPM and they are surprised at the lack of courtesy and downright obnoxious behaviour of some posters on this board. They compare this to other sites they go to and the general consensus is that there is a lack of civility when tackling delicate subjects like this one.

No, one does not need to be a top level performer to coach or hold worthy opinions on the sport. Look at some of the best coaches in the world - in all sports, and many of them were 'journeymen' in their respective sports (Mourinho, Wenger, Roux - in soccer), Lenny Wilkins in basketball, and the list goes on. In fact the converse is often true....just because you were good in the sport does not confer great coaching skills...look at Keegan and Maradona who both flopped, as both were extremely talented individuals (naturals) but they were not students of the sport, like Wenger and company who are truly passionate.

In Iten, February 2009, I was privledged to meet Father Colm, who has coached the many world class Kenyans over the past 30 years. He did not even come from a running background!

To get back to Eddy, despite the negatives about him, one has to concede that he is 'outward looking' and loves to coach and help people. His passion and knowledge are infectious. Look at the good work he is doing now in Arizona - and yes, there will be detractors, but that is always the case. There are tons of people, no doubt, who hold Eddy in good esteem. He would have never passed the stringent checks that all school boards demand in the U.S. without being competent. He has paid most of his dues and should be allowed to get on with this life.

Ghost in Saudi, wwww.kfupm.edu.sa

Just today in 'Athletics Weekly' (November 4, 2010 issue), an article about Linford Christie, the famous British sprinter, reveals that he has supporters and detractors at about a 50/50 level. And it is no different with Hellebuyck, no doubt, but the difference here is that the people who support the pint sized former Belgian do not post here, so the negative posters prime on this site.

Linford, one assumes, had doped, but people are willing to forgive him for the massive contribution he made to British sport. And the same could be said for Chambers, who made a comeback, without doping, actually surpassing his former feats, which shows that with the right preparation, one may go far.

A pity for Christie, that Coe does not recognize him, and he (Christie) will not be on the list of 'invitees' for London, 2012. But Christie, with his numerous coaching duties and other professional commitments does not need validation from those who do not appreciate his presence. He commands big fees on the lecture and t.v. circuit, so he is not complaining.

The same for Eddy, one can learn from him, and he has still made a contribution to the sport.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

, apply today, great positions.

Interesting to note, that on another thread on 'letsrun'there is an article on Marco Pantani, the famous Italian cyclist, who died from cocaine overdose in 2004. He had doped and was caught, yet no one had a problem with it in Italy and Europe, and over 20,000 people attended his funeral, such was the love felt for the genial, outstanding mountain climber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantani

Eddy and Pantani have similar qualities, yet Eddy is vilified and Pantani revered. A bit of perspective here.

Ghost in Saudi, wwww.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today. Over 50s welcome, M.A. and PhDs preferred, all disciplines.

ghost wrote:

Look at some of the best coaches in the world - in all sports, and many of them were 'journeymen' in their respective sports (Mourinho, Wenger, Roux - in soccer), Lenny Wilkins in basketball, and the list goes on.

Ghost, you should stop while you are behind. You have no credibility as knowing what you are talking about. Lenny Wilkins is in the basketball Hall of Fame as a player (and as a coach, inducted twice).