People don't seem to realize how bad the heat was at Chicago

And I'm saying that as someone who did not do well.

Boo-freaking-hoo. So put on more clothes for your runs, Benji Durden was doing it before you were even born.

adamJ2 wrote:

I have run a 2:19 (2 years ago though). But PR'ed is other events this spring so it was logical to try and PR Sunday because my build up was very good. My case is a little worse because I train in a mild climate and early morning before work. It's been 55-60 when I do my workouts.

Again, I want to make it clear I am not BlAMMING the weather for anything, it was just a negative factor. I am starting to think it this will turn into a normal letsrun.com crap thread though when people start asking for training logs and PRs. Which is too bad because it was an experience Sunday and I think there are 50 guys in my position that have some interesting/bad/funny stories as the weather did a little sneaking up on athletes.

Dr. Steve Brule wrote:

If you look at Chicago this year, all things considered, it was not a bad day to run a marathon.

Wrong

I love to compete. Unfortunately, when you run a race 1000+ miles from home and don't know anyone in the race and are not elite, you better have some other strategy than racing some random person who you know nothing about. What is the best strategy? A realistic time goal. Maybe you adjust for the weather forecast, maybe you go for it anyway. If you go for it, you think you ran with balls, but then the if gamble doesn't pay off, you are a wussy on LR. 99% of the people in the race were not there to even place in their age group. They had time goals. Heat made it difficult and improbable, though not impossible, to reach them.

Grassy knolls wrote:

No conspiracy. Hourly temperature reports are here.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KORD/2010/10/10/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

These temps are from the airport which is going to be warmer than downtown Chicago because of the Lake effect.

This is wrong. I watched the local weather forcasts in Chicago the night before and the morning of and they mentioned several times that the closer to the water that you were the warmer it would be. Using this logic I would bet that the airport was cooler than the majority of the race course.

the dude with the funny hat wrote:

[quote]PapaROTC wrote:

Yes, thank you. I was going to say just that. To say the weather was not conducive to getting the lowest time possible, fine. But still race, dammit! And if you need an example to follow, look at the elites. They did not set a world record. However they did race.

I agree, we should not be going for times in the marathon. 20 years from now you won't care whether you ran 2:33 or 2:35. You will care that you gave it your all and raced up to your potential and beat a bunch of people who should've beaten you, on a given day.

Why do people think that 'racing' and shooting for a fast time are two things that are mutually exclusive?

Best post on this thread.

Wilted in the sun wrote:

Yep - Another comment from someone who was not there, just looked at stats on a web page somewhere, and either did not read the previous posts, or decided to ignore the facts that most of the folks that were actually there and ran have stated that the last 10 miles was MUCH hotter than the stated temperature indicated.

If you were not there, and didn't experience this run personally - SHUT THE HELL UP!

How much of this last 10 miles being "MUCH hotter" was due to the fact that they were probably a little dehydrated during these miles?

Yes, I do agree that 100% sun (no cloud clover) and 80 degrees FEELS a lot hotter than 75% sun and 80 degrees.

Like many have said, you have to re-adjust your plans/strategy/time goals on warmer days. I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for those that don't properly re-adjust. The other thing is, quite honestly, its a marathon in early October. Did you not do a majority of your training in the summer months when, in a majority of the country, conditions are similar to or above what Chicago had on race day?

2007 study regarding the impact of temperature in a marathon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473775?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA

Benefit of the doubt for the ones saying it wasn't that hot would leave most of the race in Q3 and towards the end going into Q4. According to the study they saw a mean average slowdown of 2.5%(+/-2.1) and 3.3%(+/-2.0) respectively for elites and even greater on those finishing slower.

hmmmm wrote:

2007 study regarding the impact of temperature in a marathon.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473775?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA

Benefit of the doubt for the ones saying it wasn't that hot would leave most of the race in Q3 and towards the end going into Q4. According to the study they saw a mean average slowdown of 2.5%(+/-2.1) and 3.3%(+/-2.0) respectively for elites and even greater on those finishing slower.

Edit: 3.3%(+/-2.0) for Q3 and 4.5%(+/- 2.3) for Q4

Was it hot in Chicago or what?

OldManRunner?! wrote:

Like many have said, you have to re-adjust your plans/strategy/time goals on warmer days. I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for those that don't properly re-adjust.

A guy going for the OT qualifier does not get to "adjust his time goals." There's no point. He might as well drop out. It's either he makes it or not.

The fact is a large percentage of the people who run Chicago are looking for a time, not a place. They're not looking to race some random person who runs beside them, they're trying to hit a time goal. So glib statements like "Adjust your time goals" are pointless. It won't make the result any more pleasant. Either you make it or you don't. If the weather keeps you from making it -- because you tried to hold pace and blew up or because you "adjusted your goal" and shuffled in, you still have nothing to show for your training except a slow marathon

I ran Chicago on Sunday and had run previously in 2006 (cold), 2007 (hot) and 2009 (cold). Although conditions were certainly not ideal, I didn't think it was that bad. It was nothing close to the heat 2007 and was not humid at all. There was plenty of water and sponges available to cool down with (this year).

I ended up with a PR even after readjusting my goal in the days leading up to the race. I did this knowing that it was going to be warm. I haven't read all the pages, but I believe that many people who bombed likely did so because they didn't run a smart race and/or were unprepared.

Let me preface by saying I respect the performances that all the Hanson runners put forth on Sunday. Everyone completed admirably, not only Sunday but in their consistent hard work to be able to put up those times. However, with the exception of a brilliant run by Davilla I failed to see any huge breakthrough races or big PR’s.

I don’t know all the details but it appears 11 runners were fielded with 8 finishing, a 27% dropout rate. Morgan hung on over the last few miles to improve 16 seconds over his personal best, from Chicago back in 06 under much cooler conditions. It appeared as though it was only Young’s second marathon and he improved on his 2:25 initial outing. Canaday improved on a 3 year old PR by about 2:30 after steady improvements at other distances since. The ladder two just missed out on the Olympic standard time, however their relative youth and ability to improve shouldn’t be diminished. I however don’t see using these athletes recent relative gains as being indicative of the ability to run a good fast race this past Sunday.

After going through this entire thread and its relative worthlessness one thing I have noticed is neither the Brojos or Hanson has bothered to concede to the many athletes who claimed the heat had adverse effects on their overall ability to run a good race. Nor own up to how offensive it was to competitors who struggled on Sunday with the conditions but still raced as hard as the could. I know its become cool to flaunt your balls in running lately between Reavis and Fleshman this summer, but show some class, I’m sure everyone, including you guys have lacked the necessary balls to execute a race.

As an aside I was personally really hoping rojo would defend his take on the trials race and chicago but however as others have pointed out, they usually look away in this type of instance.

yess..... wrote:

[quote]OldManRunner?! wrote:

Like many have said, you have to re-adjust your plans/strategy/time goals on warmer days. I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for those that don't properly re-adjust.

A guy going for the OT qualifier does not get to "adjust his time goals." There's no point. He might as well drop out. It's either he makes it or not.

The fact is a large percentage of the people who run Chicago are looking for a time, not a place. They're not looking to race some random person who runs beside them, they're trying to hit a time goal. So glib statements like "Adjust your time goals" are pointless. It won't make the result any more pleasant. Either you make it or you don't. If the weather keeps you from making it -- because you tried to hold pace and blew up or because you "adjusted your goal" and shuffled in, you still have nothing to show for your training except a slow marathon[/quote

i would say if you cant run 219 on a hot day you dont belong at the trials. They set that time at 219 to make sure that 215 guys get in even if they have bad luck with weather at qualifying races. Not to let in the guys who can only run 21855 on a perfect day. Therefore a guy who can only run 221 in subpar conditions should be focused on doing so and placing as high at chicago as possible. If placing high at chicago doesnt mean anything to you then go for usatf champs that way you can say you placed top 10 or top 20 or whatever in the country. If youre more a 230 type then run a smaller local race and go for top 5 or top 10 and maybe inspire some of the local high school kids in the process.

I've written some dumb things on here, but I think you just topped all of them with that completely ridiculous drivel. They made the trials at 2:19 not so that a 2:19 guy can get in, but to allow a 2:15 guy to have a bad race and still get in? Seriously, what are you smoking? I would show no more preference to a 2:19 guy who ran that under harsh conditions then a 2:19 guy who ran that under perfect conditions. Both are 2:19 guys.

One of the great things about a marathon is that training, race plan, weather, has as much to do with who you are as a marathoner as your talent or ability. 2:19 is 2:19... whether you were in shape to run 2:15 or not, its still 2:19.

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Ryan Hall understands. Post #200.