Is Bolt doping? An intelligent discussion

Here is the progression in the 100 meter world record, starting with Calvin Smith in 1983. What you will notice is that almost everyone on the list either has served a doping ban or has been implicated in doping. For instance, Lewis tested positive for stimulants at the 88 Olympic trials, but the results were covered up. And it's hard to believe Bailey was clean--he had the puffy physique of someone on steroids--but there is no hard evidence.

The mark steadily improves by about a tenth through the 80s and 90s, and then comes the in-your-face doping era, when Greene, Montgomery, Gatlin, and Powell take a tenth off the record in a decade. The progression is actually pretty linear through that entire time.

And then Bolt comes along, and chops 16 hundredths off the record in a little over a year. Bang.

Assume Bailey is the last know clean sprinter on the list. Bolt improved Bailey's mark by 2.5%. Let's assume Steve Cram was the last clean mile record holder at 3:46. It would be like someone coming along and running 3:40, breaking Hicham's record by a full three seconds. Would you think someone running 3:40 was clean?

Or let's just look at how he improved on Powell's mark. If you apply that percentage improvement to Hicham's mile record, it's as if someone came along and ran 3:40. Either way, the point stands.

Now let's consider the number of Jamaican sprinters who have served doping bans or who have been otherwise implicated: Asafa Powell, Nesta Carter, Sheri-Ann Brooks (got off on B test technicality), Donovan Powell, Marvin Anderson, Dominqiue Blake, Julien Dunkley, Shelly Ann Fraser, Steve Mullins, Sherone Simpson, Landsford Spence, Allodin Fothergill, etc.

Add to that that it's now come to light that the level of corruption in the sport is so rampant that countries have been paying to cover up positive tests.

So you have a situation where an athlete is beating other athletes who have been caught using by a margin so big that it would be like someone coming along and dropping a 3:40 mile, and meanwhile a host of his teammates have been popped, and we know if he ever popped a positive there would be so much incentive to cover it up and keep the gravy train flowing.

And the best arguments you have for why he's clean are that he's tall and eats yams and was lazy early in his career and is some sort of genetic freak?

Weak sauce. He's as dirty as the rest of the lot. I believe in outliers, not in aliens, which is what you'd need to be to do what Bolt is doing clean.

9.93 Calvin Smith July 3, 1983

9.83 Ben Johnson August 30, 1987 (His eyeballs were yellow)

9.93 Carl Lewis August 30, 1987 (Three failed drug tests 88 trials)

9.92 Carl Lewis September 24, 1988 (See above)

9.90 Leroy Burrell June 14, 1991

9.86 Carl Lewis August 25, 1991 (See above)

9.85 Leroy Burrell July 6, 1994

9.84 Donovan Bailey July 27, 1996 ???

9.79 Maurice Greene June 16, 1999 (paper trail of drug use)

9.78 Tim Montgomery September 14, 2002 (BALCO)

9.77 Asafa Powell June 14, 2005 (Banned 18 month for doping in 2014)

9.76 Justin Gatlin May 12, 2006 (Served doping ban)

9.76 Asafa Powell June 11, 2006 (See above)

9.74 Asafa Powell September 9, 2007 (see above)

9.72 Usain Bolt May 31, 2008 ???

9.69 Bolt August 16, 2008 ???

9.58 Bolt August 16, 2009 ???

~~~~~~~~ wrote:

Scientific Inquiry wrote:

A truism:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary EVIDENCE.

The extraordinary claim: a PED-free man runs 100 meters in 9.58 seconds and 200 meters in 19.19 seconds, obliterating his (already shocking) world records in events with documented histories of drug use among its previous world record holders and world champions.

The alternative claim is also quite extraordinary.

The extraordinary claim: an undetectable drug is developed and is provided to a young Jamaican - quite possibly before 2002, when he became the youngest-ever world junior gold medallist at 15 years old. Not only is this drug undetected, but despite the monetary incentive, no other male sprinter gets access to this drug and the young Jamaican goes on to run 100m in 9.58 seconds and 200m in 19.19 seconds.

That's not a bad point, but Tim M and BALCO already happened once. And in the 1997 article by Sports Ill. there is a lab in Jamaica. fits the time line.

DAD!!! This guy is awesome.

Catlin and Yesalis should both put out opinions based on their years of study. I know they both think it's true. They are getting older and I think they will reveal the truth in time.

I would love to ask them what they REALLY think goes on.

What's the fastest a person can run clean???

10.2?

Nonono. wrote:

What's the fastest a person can run clean???

10.2?

10.1 i think

"Go to Jamaica and get the good stuff" very funny, but it is to be expected from those haters who fall short in the talent pool. Trust me Jamaica is a poor place and Bolt was dominating people before he could spell steroids. Once again if he is on it now that he can afford it if all things were equal he would still dominate

9.93 Calvin Smith July 3, 1983

9.83 Ben Johnson August 30, 1987 (His eyeballs were yellow)

9.93 Carl Lewis August 30, 1987 (Three failed drug tests 88 trials)

9.92 Carl Lewis September 24, 1988 (See above)

9.90 Leroy Burrell June 14, 1991

9.86 Carl Lewis August 25, 1991 (See above)

9.85 Leroy Burrell July 6, 1994

9.84 Donovan Bailey July 27, 1996 ???

9.79 Maurice Greene June 16, 1999 (paper trail of drug use)

9.78 Tim Montgomery September 14, 2002 (BALCO)

9.77 Asafa Powell June 14, 2005 (Banned 18 month for doping in 2014)

9.76 Justin Gatlin May 12, 2006 (Served doping ban)

9.76 Asafa Powell June 11, 2006 (See above)

9.74 Asafa Powell September 9, 2007 (see above)

9.72 Usain Bolt May 31, 2008 ???

9.69 Bolt August 16, 2008 ???

9.58 Bolt August 16, 2009 ???

Marvelous post. This is even more striking if you plot it up and look at the dips where someone's on the sauce.

Nonono. wrote:

What's the fastest a person can run clean???

10.2?

10.1 i think

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Thats about right. I can run around 10.4 clean cant see myself getting much faster clean. I have trained with guys on roids and off roids and the fastest guy ive seen clean was siadric williams from texas tech 10.11 wind and 10.27 legal. Fastest guy Ive seen on roids and trained with ran 10 flat and was waaay less talented than saidric he couldnt break 11.0 clean.

Dreday wrote:

Nonono. wrote:

What's the fastest a person can run clean???

10.2?

10.1 i think

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Thats about right. I can run around 10.4 clean cant see myself getting much faster clean. I have trained with guys on roids and off roids and the fastest guy ive seen clean was siadric williams from texas tech 10.11 wind and 10.27 legal. Fastest guy Ive seen on roids and trained with ran 10 flat and was waaay less talented than saidric he couldnt break 11.0 clean.

Darrel Green ran a 10.08, but I am not sure he was totally clean, back in the day there were alot of guys using very little for like a month or so.

Darrel Green ran a 10.08, but I am not sure he was totally clean, back in the day there were alot of guys using very little for like a month or so.

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Very hard to run 10.08 clean I train with guys on drugs and they can barely crack a 10.3. I think its very possible with wind assistance and a fast track. Anywhere under 10.2 is seriously moving for natural ability Shawn Crawford was running 10.07 assisted in the BALCO era.

http://www.diamondleague.com/athletes/14235549.html

10.01 natural cutoff

Olympic Truth wrote:

~~~~~~~~ wrote:

The alternative claim is also quite extraordinary.

The extraordinary claim: an undetectable drug is developed and is provided to a young Jamaican - quite possibly before 2002, when he became the youngest-ever world junior gold medallist at 15 years old. Not only is this drug undetected, but despite the monetary incentive, no other male sprinter gets access to this drug and the young Jamaican goes on to run 100m in 9.58 seconds and 200m in 19.19 seconds.

That's not a bad point, but Tim M and BALCO already happened once. And in the 1997 article by Sports Ill. there is a lab in Jamaica. fits the time line.

The undetectable drug story lives on. In the era of steroid AND blood parameters tracking, the iAAF knows exactly who is/isn't doping.

Bolt is never testing positive. He transcends the sport. The iAAF isn't going to ruin the goose laying golden eggs

bboxbonn wrote:

With Usain Bolt's amazing performances over the 2008 Olympics and 2009 World Championships, and his fast rise to overwhelming domination in the 100 and 200, I feel as a fan of track and field and one who sincerely wants track to become popular and others like-minded, We need to dicuss the possibility of Bolt using some kind of performance enhancing drug. As much as I don't want it to be true, It seems a likely possibility.

Thought and opinion?

Please stay civil and with intelligent discourse.

Bolt's teeth use to be packed tightly together. Now, he has large gaps in several places, included a big gap between his two upper front teeth.

All you need to know. Case closed.

Gapped teeth don't lie wrote:

Bolt's teeth use to be packed tightly together. Now, he has large gaps in several places, included a big gap between his two upper front teeth.

All you need to know. Case closed.

Bolt also used to be 4' tall. He's now 6'5".

He used to be able to run 13.0. Now he's run 9.58.

All you need to know. Case closed.

trollism wrote:

SARM is what everyone is on just like Mr Quack Quack said.

The IAAF put them on the banned list at the started if this year or maybe last year, but don't have a clue how to test for them. The athletes are laughing.

Athletes in boxing are testing positive for SARMs like ostarine. Boxing ffs. One of the sports where testing is a joke. The idea that the authorities can't test for SARMs is laughable, they are easily detectable and there is no level that occurs naturally within the body. Any level above the detection limit constitutes a positive test.

This isn't an intelligent discussion. Accusations have to be based on facts and there are no facts to support the contention that Boltbis doping. All there is is hearsay from the likes of Victor Conte and the completely unfounded assumption that all elite athletes are necessarily doping. IMO although doping happens in the sport, nobody who does it gets away with it in the long term. 12 years at the world class level with not so much as a false A sample positive or warning for inadvertent use of some banned ingredient in a cold medicine is strong evidence that Bolt is clean.

+1

And, keep in mind that it's relatively easy to dope as a sprinter. You take steroids out of competition, bulk up, then stop taking them in time for them to wash out of your system for competition.

If you live in a country that doesn't do out of competition testing (e.g., Jamaica), you have a formula for success.

jimmy bobby wrote:

+1

And, keep in mind that it's relatively easy to dope as a sprinter. You take steroids out of competition, bulk up, then stop taking them in time for them to wash out of your system for competition.

If you live in a country that doesn't do out of competition testing (e.g., Jamaica), you have a formula for success.

moran

bulking up is not why they use PEDs

Bolt was a junior phenom who was well managed as a kid by his coaches. They pulled him from the 100s early to avoid injury. They managed his racing beautifully.

Now he is older, he is getting slower. He's managing his racing even tighter, and is not as fast, or as resilient as he was.

He's just flat out talented. The most talented sprinter ever. Just like he projected to be as a 15 year old.

No he's not doping. He doesn't have to.