Wyner

Wyner wasn't taunting anyone.

He was waving his arms.

Then after the race he turned and bowed.

There is nothing wrong with bowing.

It's a sign of respect.

Anyone who thinks he needed to be DQd is a pansy. Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupBT6XdC2c

Sebastian Coe winning the 1984 1500 and immediately upon finishing flipping the bird to the british press. Maybe they should of DQd him.

This thread has degenerated into a bunch of people going, "I say Charles, I would never show that much emotion, I would act like I've been there before". Well he hadn't been there before and neither have you. There's no way of knowing how you would react. If any other runner in that field, with the exception of Miller because he has a C on his chest, did the same thing people would of cheered and there would be no DQ. It's complete BS and shame on the officials for robbing him of a Heps title. Really, you should be ashamed, it was a bad day for the sport.

Let me start by saying I don't think he should have been DQ'd, he won that race in dominating fashion.

That being said, what he did was embarassing and shameful to the entire league. I'm all for celebrating, but (and I was there) celebrating with 50m to go in the race is absurd. I would have no problem if he had just waited until he got to the line. It was so absurd that he had to keep looking back over his shoulder after his initial celebration to make sure no one was catching him. And let's make sure everyone understands that it wasn't just the Dartmouth kids booing him, it was everyone. When they annoucned on the loudspeaker that he was DQd, he got the largest standing ovation ANYONE received at the meet. I think that should tell you something. I thought his bow was actually a decently appropriate response to all the booing. But don't give me any BS that he was DQd because he was from Cornell or any of that. You don't celebrate 50m out in the 1500... just get to the goddamn line first (like Coe did, in your video).

If ever the unsportsmanlike DQ was going to be employed, this was certainly an appropriate situation. But as a competitor, I do feel bad for him; he ran the smartest race, and had the strongest kick... it is very unfortunate that his extremely poor judgment got in the way.

I hope these non-Cornell Ivy League people realize that they are projecting exactly what they want to see onto Wyner's personality.

I'm sure if Nick Willis ran for Cornell and often beat your guys you would see him as a cocky asshole, a horrible hitler-esque character, what with his 150m long celebration in the indoor mile (this is not an exaggeration) and smirky countenance.

I just showed the people at my office this video - promising them a 'wild celebration' at the end, and after he bowed the woman who sits next to me asked 'when does he start celebrating?'

You really hate Cornell, and you REALLY hate losing to Cornell. That is pretty reasonable, and I'm sure this coming Fall the boards will be once again full of people who hate Princeton as they tote away another Heps XC trophy. ("Oh they are the worst! Oh they get so much talent! Oh they are the evil empire!")

Bump this in 6months and prove me wrong.

Ok. I just read that interview and he is now 100% my favorite runner. I think the visitors of LRC should start a fund-raiser to sponsor him as a pro. The LRC community should sponsor the guy.That interview is UNREAL. You have to read the whole thing. He is having fun, is emotional and is even misunderstood by his own teammates.I'll paste the beginning.

Rojo himself gave him a shirt that called him primadonna. But if you read the interview you realize it's all in fun. He's enjoying life.

"I think I can be. I’m not even going to lie about that."

Classic!!!

Primadonna but the people's champ.

The Muhammad ali of his era. Ali was hated by Americans before being embraced. Let's make sure the same is true for Wyner.

There had to be some element of jealousy involved in Wyner's DQ. Consider a scenario in which Wyner did the same celebration including the bow, but he had gotten second. I really don't think there would have been a DQ. Makes you think that he was the victim of a petty coach's personal insecurities.

Little known fact:

Princeton and Dartmouth student-athlete populations have more micropenises per capita than any other Ivy.

It all comes down to penis envy.

Lets face it, Wyner's probably gotten more ass than those schools' distance squads cumulative total over the last 5 years. Jealous pricks.

wyners new #1 fan wrote:

Let's make sure the same is true for Wyner.

Let's not. If Ali had been a track athlete he wouldn't have ever shoved his own teammate in order to finish first or celebrated winning an 800 prelim at his conference meet.

I think its pretty obvious that "it is what it is" refers to the DQ decision, which he has no control over. The phrase can be correctly used regardless of whether or not he was aware of the decision. I like it when people try to exercise their great intelligence when in fact they're wrong. It's not english class, so quiet down.

Um... Ian Marcus?

I just want to make the point that Wyner was not booed because he was from Cornell - there were plenty other winner from Cornell including Hine who celebrated early as well who were not booed. Wyner was booed because he is Wyner, and is known for being an all around ass.

Maag should somehow refuse to accept 1st place. And the next guy should also refuse it, and so on and so forth until there is no winner and no finishers. [/quote]

You are not the first to say something like this, but Maag should absolutely not refuse his first place medal, or give the medal back to Jimmy, or any such thing.

It sucks that Jimmy got dq'd, and I don't think he should have, but a Princeton athlete should never give anything to a Cornell athlete, just as a Cornell athlete should never give anything to a Princeton athlete. Even if there is mutual respect between the athletes on the two teams, the rivlarly between the teams should be bitter for as long as those are the two teams on top. It is more fun that way. The fact that every couple of years (or even every year) there is some big scandal that pisses everyone off on all teams, makes it even better.

If Maag and Jimmy happen to be friends outside of track, that is fine. But if that is so, I don't really want to know about it.

a few observations from the meet

1. i was at the meet and there was a collective silent groan from the cornell section (of which i was an anxious member) when wyner crossed the line like he did

2. there was a huge uproar of boos like i have never heard at a heps from the princeton, yale and dartmouth sections at jimmy

3. the stadium was buzzing like crazy after the event. the only question was: do you think they're going to dq him. cornell was trying to win the meet, this question was important

4. the princeton coach was going crazy, he was literally at the official's tent before wyner was finished bowing to his boo'ing tiger fan/opponents

5. the booing was, in my mind, just as unsportsmanlike as the 10 seconds of jubilant celebrating. it definitely had a cornell vs. the world feel to it which was interesting.

6. the princeton coach was trying to get miller dq'd as well for "tripping" amirault. amirault was a rabbit (look at the race, he was checking his watch for splits) to help maag win. amirault, if anyone, should have been dq'd for trying to drop out of the race but cutting off and tripping the cornell runner actually running the race legitimately

7. so princeton was rabbiting the heps final, for whatever that's worth. (i hate rabbited championship finals way more than ANY celebration i've ever seen, whether its done by the team i'm rooting for or another team)

8. wyner gets dq'd, everyone sort of felt it coming. the cornell section was deflated. and I'm serious here, there was a standing ovation from the princeton, yale and dartmouth athlete/fan/coach sections. again, ivy sportsmanship at its best.

9. mike maag waved from the podium as he got his first place medal. kind of an odd moment for a guy who just got beat in the race.

10. everyone who called me after the meet said wyner shouldn't have been dq'd (they watched it on video)

11. everyone who was at the meet (at least the cornell people) knew immediately that there was at least a 50/50 chance he'd get dq'd, the atmosphere was that intense! It was crazy! I kept telling myself to calm down but it was almost sickening for the rest of the meet.

12. there is a lot of history here that people have talked about but i'll share a couple stories.

a) cornell wants to win that meet really badly. i used to compete for them and we wanted it bad. we wanted to take out whoever was on top. now cornell has been on top a lot and the other teams are gunning for cu. back in the day there were fights after meets, people getting thrown to the track in big situations, coaches calling for dq's and "re-do's" all sorts of crazy stuff.

b) a while ago the yale team started a facebook group called: 'cornell track athletes are snakes' and the yale team would hiss at cornell athletes while competing and even hiss at the coaches walking around at the heps. my last race in a cu uniform ended badly and a group of yalies hissed at me as i crawled to the finish of my last meet. from what i've seen, there's equal or less "class" and "dignity" in the ivy league compared to any other setting. it's a lot like the ivy leaguers on wall street... but we won't go there.

c) one year the entire penn team stormed the track in celebration after their guy beat a favored cornell guy, and they actually impeded a guy finishing the race. of course, this form of jubilant celebration was ignored/welcomed by officials.

the rivalries are great. controversy and intrigue are great. why? because those things mean that people care, that the meet MATTERS to people.

taking a victory away from a guy who won the race fair and square is not good for the sport or for anyone.

is celebrating good for the sport? it is what it is. personally, I'm not offended when any runner celebrates (though I'm not a big celebrate-r myself... aka i've never really been in a position to celebrate!) and if i were coaching i would never try to get a guy dq'd for celebrating, no matter how much it hurt to see it not be my guy.

here's a question: if a USA athlete like Ryan Hall wins the olympics and pumps up the crowd in the final miles, praising god and screaming and pointing up a #1 sign, do they boo him? maybe if it's in Mexico or something. but in the usa he'll be a hero forever. the olympics celebrate human beings doing amazing things.

the heps should be about kids doing great things, but it's also about rivalries and hatred and intense competition. in my opinion, jimmy ran a great, emotional race and was hastily removed from the record books due to 1 thing: EMOTION and MOB RULE. It was a mob mentality.

i'm more embarrassed for the officials succumbing to pressure without thinking objectively about the person who won the race and what he did. just because his celebration angered the crowd who wanted desperately to see maag, robbins or gallagher win (and cornell lose), doesn't mean he didn't earn his win fair and square.

why did jimmy's fellow athletes boo? why did they give a standing, roaring ovation when jimmy was disqualified? the same reason jimmy celebrated his win: EMOTION. they did things they wouldn't normally do because it was an extra-ordinary situation. sorry to all the haters of "celebration" who call it by its negative name: "showboating". you have emotions. when your baby is born you may cry. when your wife calls you at work and says she's pregnant you might run around the office high-fiving (does your baby get dq'd?). when a bully picks on your kid you will have to face emotion. when your marriage hits the rocks in your 40's it'll be tough times. too bad! we have to deal with emotion and rules are not the answer.

dq'ing somebody because half the stadium wants it that way doesn't do any good. and this result is a total shame. though i was worried and angry at jimmy at the time for putting himself and the team through that, i recognize it was his decision and i'll side with the minority at the meet (with the performer who had everything to lose), not the angry (ahem, "morally superior?") mob of harmless spectators who howled from their not-so-ivory tower without a thing to lose. i bet they'll remember who really won. although i guess in their minds they did!

You are a straight up moron. You don't know what the officials were thinking. Considering your affiliation with Cornell, I would say that you are the one who is lacking objectivity.

What did coach Rojo say to Jimmy after the DQ?

Now thats thinking with your dipstick Jimmy!

You're totally off on this. People didn't hate Ben True, who won almost everything he raced for three years. People didn't hate Boylan-Pett, who had some pretty excessive celebrations. People didn't hate Bruce Hyde, who dominated for a year or two. It has nothing to do with Wyner's success, or that fact that he goes to Cornell, and everything to do with the attitude he projects.

As for XC, the only beef Ivy people have with Princeton is that they choke at the regional each year and don't make nationals. No one who actually follows track and XC has a problem with them winning-it's fair. They just need to figure out how to make the NCAA meet and give the league a little more credibility (on the men's side).

In_Ithaca wrote:

Anyone who thinks he needed to be DQd is a pansy. Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupBT6XdC2c

Sebastian Coe winning the 1984 1500 and immediately upon finishing flipping the bird to the british press. Maybe they should of DQd him.

It's complete BS and shame on the officials for robbing him of a Heps title. Really, you should be ashamed, it was a bad day for the sport.

You hit the difference right here:

Seb Coe was a multi-world record holder, previous Olympic Gold medalist who just won another Olympic gold medal, in Olympic record time - after coming back from a serious illness that kept him out of competition for almost a year.

Jimmy Wyner is a guy who has never even qualified for the NCAA meet, hasn't even run the NCAA regional qualifier this spring, competing in the Heps Championships.

Yeah, same thing.

Those comparing Wyner to Usain Bolt, Coughlin, or Coe are complete morons. Those guys are/were professionals, competing at the highest level of the sport, in front of thousands of fans - who did actually incredible things (world records, olympic records, etc). They were all established stars in the sport who had actually achieved things before hand (world records, olympic medals, etc.)

Wyner is a guy from a mid-major NCAA conference, who's never even appeared at the highest level, notable only for being previously DQ'd.

[/quote]

You're totally off on this. People didn't hate Ben True, who won almost everything he raced for three years. People didn't hate Boylan-Pett, who had some pretty excessive celebrations. People didn't hate Bruce Hyde, who dominated for a year or two. It has nothing to do with Wyner's success, or that fact that he goes to Cornell, and everything to do with the attitude he projects.

As for XC, the only beef Ivy people have with Princeton is that they choke at the regional each year and don't make nationals. No one who actually follows track and XC has a problem with them winning-it's fair. They just need to figure out how to make the NCAA meet and give the league a little more credibility (on the men's side).[/quote]

Ummmm do you read this message board? You think Hyde didn't get hate from the league? Are you kidding me?

His celebration at the end of the race and the bow to the booing crowd made me feel like going out and training and racing again. I love when guys are emotional and thrive on rivalries. I dont care if he is a mid-major guy and not Usain Bolt or Seb Coe. Personally his celebration would make me pissed and want to beat him the next time out. Not whine about unsportsmanlike conduct and beg for a DQ.