Ouch, you got me. How do I wriggle my way out of this one? No argument from me - you are the clear winner.
Ouch, you got me. How do I wriggle my way out of this one? No argument from me - you are the clear winner.
No wonder America is such a mess of cultural and social identity... this thread says it all.
RonnyH wrote:
No wonder America is such a mess of cultural and social identity... this thread says it all.
you are so educated and righteous.
we should all live peacefully with a strong sense of cultural identity.
like our hardworking african friends and their handy machetes.
Another example of someone who believes more or trains harder. Hope she doesnt go to college.
http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234836/167502
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
wellnow wrote:Talent IS self belief, you don't need special physical characteristics.
Most letsrunners truly believe the Kenenisa Bekele would run 48-49 for 400, when in fact he is flat out at 12.5 seconds for the fastest 100m sections of his races.
The fact that he can do this after 24 laps is what makes people believe he can run much faster. So he gets placed on a pedestal instead of being intelligently asessed for his true strengths and weaknesses. This breeds widescale negativity and mythologizing. Where is the new Lydiard to lead us like Moses in exodus from the desert of doom and despair?
Wellnow, I don't even need to argue with anymore since others (kudos especially to Hugo) are beating you down pretty well these days. It seems as if you have gone to some extreme places with your arguments now, as if you are truly feeling threatened (ie, acting desperate in this debate). However.....
A) Saying one does not need "any special physical characteristics" to be great is a really extreme position. I don't know what you are thinking at this point, but you are starting to embarrass yourself.
B) Bekele's "strengths and WEAKNESSES" ?? Ok, I'll bite, what ARE his weaknesses? ( Oh, I can't wait, so I'll answer: HE HAS NONE. You don't win world cross doubles a zillion times in a row with weaknesses. You don't run 12:37 & 26:17 with weaknesses. You don't run a sub 13:00 second half of a 10k championship and then smoke the other greatest runner of all time, Haile Geb, with ease in the final 200 with weaknesses. Putting him on a "pedestal" ?? Are you out of your mind. I am pretty sure he deserves the pedestal.
C) I agree that the only solution to beating more talented runners would be a coach with a completely new paradigm that somehow creates a superior training program. Of course if I knew what that was, I'd be a very rich man. However, these days there are no secrets, and that word would travel fast and the east africans would eventually train the same way (their coaches are from Italy or Eastern Europe anyway, right?), and then the beatings would continue.
Lastly, I am just wondering: do you think that Usain Bolt has any special physical talents, or does he just have a stronger mind than others?
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There is no point in me arguing with someone who doesn't believe in himself.
Running IS a skill, that skill is neuromuscular co-ordination.
Talent IS self belief. You work on your speed endurance and keep improving improving improving.
You can make all the excuses you want for failure, but it doesn't mean you are right about what works and doesn't work for me, because I don't accept failure.
I have to agree 100 percent with Paul Tergat, the only difference in performance between top Africans and Americans is with attitude.
This is why Americans can generally do okay for a mile, that doesn't take much or any special endurance if any, but the same runners get left way behind over distance.
I think most American and European runners are aftraid to even consider trying to beat the East African distance runners.
Self fulfilling prophecies of loserdom will inevitably ensue.
If you think you can't do it, you're right.
It takes a lotta balls to think positively about challenging the East African dominance. Who is actually going to coach a runner with such a postive attitude, where are those coaches? They must be around, but are they going to be listened to?
It's not just the runners, in fact I would say it's the coaches in the U.S., not the runners.
As example of this German Fernandez is gung ho to train hard to be the best in the world, and his coach Smith chastises him for running on a golf course, or for running too fast in his distance runs. Meanwhile his competitors in Africa are running hard every day.
What is a runner of German's talent to do. Either he listens to his coach and doesn't develop, like most Americans, or else he does his own training on his own.
It would be cool for group of young Americans to go to Kenya and train with the groups there for a couple of months to see the type of training they are doing.
wait for it.... wrote:
RonnyH wrote:No wonder America is such a mess of cultural and social identity... this thread says it all.
you are so educated and righteous.
we should all live peacefully with a strong sense of cultural identity.
like our hardworking african friends and their handy machetes.
F*** Africa... that's the last place I'd want to live.
Talent is an innate ability or a capacity for achievement. This sounds like a physical attribute to me.Self-belief is a psychological state of mind -- in this case, an opinion about one's level of talent. This sounds like a mental attribute about what one thinks is their true potential.Self-belief can be less than, equal to, or greater than, raw physical talent:- Having too little self-belief will likely result in under-developed realized potential.- Having just enough, or too much, belief will not likely result in realizing potential beyond your own capacity.I believe non-Africans can do better than they are now:- African domination is intimidating, and contributing to self doubt.- Improving the infrastructure to nurture talent in the long-term.- Providing a greater incentive to compete.Tergat is simply saying that most of the mythology explaining Kenyan dominance does not apply to him. The existing foundations for self-doubt should be questioned, and is acting as a barrier.
wellnow wrote:
There is no point in me arguing with someone who doesn't believe in himself.
Running IS a skill, that skill is neuromuscular co-ordination.
Talent IS self belief. You work on your speed endurance and keep improving improving improving.
You can make all the excuses you want for failure, but it doesn't mean you are right about what works and doesn't work for me, because I don't accept failure.
enough! sick of hearing your jealous pussies ranting on africans
we nigs will beat your a$$
[quote]Voice of Ray-san wrote:
Talent is an innate ability or a capacity for achievement. This sounds like a physical attribute to me.
[quote]
That doesn't make sense. Is the talent to play music physical?
Why would running be any different? Both the mastery of a musical instrument and the mastery of running technique require enourmous amounts of practise and dedication.
I don't understand what doesn't make sense for you. Yes, in this case, playing music and running are the same.Talent is an innate ability, capacity for achievement, aptitude, skill, gift, etc.Innate: native, natural, inborn, inherent.Talent is a characteristic of the whole body. Persons with a lot of talent can achieve success without enormous amounts of practice and dedication, relative to persons with little talent, who must work much harder, and may nevertheless still be doomed to mediocrity.Self-belief is psychological characteristic whose domain is limited to the mind. It's a psychological projection of what your talent may or may not be. Talent can affect self-belief, and self-belief may help you realize the potential of your talent, but they are still independent things. You can have talent, and lack self-belief. You can lack talent, and have self-belief.To assert "Talent is self-belief" is to imply they are one and the same -- that they are completely interchangeable concepts. Literally speaking, they are not. They operate in different domains.Now we could get all meta-physical and zen-like and say the body and mind are one, or that "talent is self-belief" makes sense in some other figurative way. Is that what you meant to say?
wellnow wrote:
That doesn't make sense. Is the talent to play music physical?
Why would running be any different? Both the mastery of a musical instrument and the mastery of running technique require enourmous amounts of practise and dedication.
The high achievers in any field of life are the ones who believe they can keep improving and act on this belief.
The low achievers don't have this self belief, although of course they may be high achievers in other fields.
Self-belief is important. Talent is important.High achievers have sufficient quantities of both.Low achievers lack one, or both.You need a strong mind and a strong body. Possessing a strong mind is necessary, but not sufficient.
wellnow wrote:
The high achievers in any field of life are the ones who believe they can keep improving and act on this belief.
The low achievers don't have this self belief, although of course they may be high achievers in other fields.
Well back in the 70's, Kenya had many great sprinters, there 4x400m national record was 3.06, and at that time that is awesome, but those sprint records are the same today, because Kenyan runners look for the longer distances, and thats why you see so many running marathons and other road races, because on the track, you only see the top three, sometimes top 4, but in a marathon, you see maybe 30. They have a much better chance at longer distances then sprints. So to say they dont have the genetics is wrong, its about there future, a international road win in prize money goes a long way in Kenyan.
J.R. wrote:
Meanwhile his competitors in Africa are running hard every day.
Where does this nonsense come from? Africans still have easy days. Regeneration run anyone?
I am myself an east african living now in the West. My grand father used to tell me that to be the best, u must learn from the best, train with the best, live like the best and then beat the best.
In elementary school, I would wake up 5:30 in the morning, ran to school about 8km (50min). Play football(soocer) with classmates until 7:10. Go wash a little bit coz we would be sweating hard. 7:30 the rise of national flag and then the class would start 7:35.
10:30 was the our recreation time (30min of football matches between classes or classmates) and we would run and play hard.
12:15 end of class and fly home. Another 8km. U would eat with family and take a nap in the afternoon. 4pm we would return on the football field to play with our neighbours or friends for about 1h and go home as our parents would be coming from their jobs at 5 or 6pm. Then it's homework, social life with family (super and chilling...).
7:30-8pm it was bedtime as our body was really tired. Then u would have an 9:30 or 10hours sleep in the night. To start the same day again 5days a week. For about 5years or more if you are not passing in the next year.
In 6th grade, u go twice. U go to school in the morning, u fly home at noon, u would come back at 2pm and finally fly home at 5:15pm. Some would go home or other would prefer to stay as they would have to cover too much distances.
Secondary school: school was at 10k. So u make sure u are at school at 7:30 to finish at 2h00. Most of all of us, would eat in the morning to finally take dinner at 3:30pm once u are back from school. Take a nap for 1h, 1h30. So after that, that's when u go train on the track for an 1h30 with the best. Most of them were with the police team or in the military, so they were really strong. Believe to see these guys running and torching the track. It gives you the target to shoot for. But nothing comes easy as my mom used to say. i think it's in the secondary school that it does happen to start running fast. But primary school too gave us capacity to develop our basic aerobic endurance to start with. As it is for speed, kids are all the speeding and sprinting. But the ones that sprint the best, often will stick with football.
There are no secret to running. With that amount of mileage at young age and most of them done at feeling your body, eating well and rest with the best temperatures on earth, it's already a plus to start running like a crazy if u really willing to train hard and make all the sacrifices needed to make it on the top. But first, if u wanna be the best;train with them, learn from them, live with them then beat them.
Why does this "attitude" help them in any sport but running? And not to mention that this allegedly widespread "hard work" attitude in Kenya has left them witha piss poor GNP and standard of living in a country with plenty of resources. And why do no other poor, hardworking people on earth produce good runners?
dsad wrote:
i mean haile thinks God is involved in his running, those are his feelings, but I think that if a God exists, I personally feel like God wouldn't be concerned about running.
Are you kidding? God's #1 priority is Ryan Hall's performance.