Has Nike's NXN ruined Footlocker National?

german ftw wrote:

Seriously! The ignorance of some people on this thread regarding the selection of teams for NXN is astounding. Wouldn't expect any less of the LetsRun posters!

They project problems regarding both meets without any evidence of problems/issue actually existing.

It is actually worse than that. FL sends its bloggers and meet directors to these threads to launch the same bogus arguments about NXN. Whenever you see these buzz-words, you will know it is FL:

--FL is the only meet that celebrates the individual champion

--Only runners who can't make FL go to NXN

--NXN is a trade show

--FL's website gets higher web traffic

--NXN is too expensive

--NXN selects teams based on political butt kissing

If you look back at any FL v. NXN thread, you will see the same things. The theory of FL is to keep throwing out stink until, hopefully, something sticks.

Most of the complaints are from that loser Aron taylor, still mad because he couldn't pull off his own national championship meet and still whining that his overrated girls team from Shadle Park didn't make it.

Give it up, once a loser, always a loser.

I was mistaken. I know a coach who took a "team" from many different High Schools. After looking at the NXN website, I guess they ran the Open race.

However, I still think that both are diluted by each other. Imagine if a State had 2 XC championships or the NCAA had 2 meets for team and individual. Sometimes the best runners have great teams. Sometimes they are lone standouts. Imagine if Chelanga (Liberty) couldn't run in the NCAA D1 meet and Derrick (Stanford) could not run where Chelanga did.

I would not have a problem with a combined nationals race. The one thing I would change is the location of the event. As cool as it looks, Portland Meadows is a terrible place to hold a national championship race. The mud is often unreasonable and has drastic effects on the race outcome.

Obviously the race is going to stay in the Portland area. So Blue Lake Park is probably the best option. The Jim Danner Invite was held there for years and is a pretty fair course. Especially if NXN were to become the primary individual national championship, it is important that it be contested on a reasonable course, and Blue Lake fits the bill.

I also want to comment briefly on the college-high school comparison here. The NXN selection model is virtually a carbon copy of the NCAA's method. However, I would argue that they are in fact very different circumstances. In the NCAA, the top individuals are very often from the top teams-that is-national meet qualifiers. In high school this is often not the case. While there are runners from the top teams in contention for an individual title almost every year, the vast majority of Foot Locker qualifiers do not come from NXN qualifying teams. Obviously this is attributable to the fact that high school teams, even the great ones, don't have near the depth of talent found on college teams. While I'm not sure this creates a problem or clash with the current selection system, it will certainly provide an interesting dynamic as every one of the individual qualifiers will be near the front of the race followed by hordes with no chance at competing up front. Compare that to NCAAs where it is not uncommon to see individuals outside of the top 100. Again, not necessarily significant but interesting to realize.

This is an interesting post in a thread of canned responses. A couple thrusts:

--Portland Meadows is indeed an odd (arguably contrived and unfair) place to run. However, it is the best spectator course in the nation. One can literally watch the entire race from the indoor grandstand. The mud doesn't bother me (and it doesn't seem to bother the runners either).

--You are correct about high school individuals but I would argue that more and more coaches are developing NXN caliber squads around FL type athletes.

--I think everyone would enjoy a combined format but let's be clear: Footlocker is the corporation blocking this not Nike. (IN fact, this may just be a dead issue at this point).

ask an east african whether cross country is a team or individual sport

progress

It not a problem because FLN / NXN are trade faires with demo XC races, vs. an independent sports league with a national championships. Trying to make it into an IAAF WXC event is like mixing water and oil. Remember, FLN / NXN are for the kids, and not for the coaches and parents.

Non-Problem wrote:

It not a problem because FLN / NXN are trade faires with demo XC races, vs. an independent sports league with a national championships. Trying to make it into an IAAF WXC event is like mixing water and oil. Remember, FLN / NXN are for the kids, and not for the coaches and parents.

and the award for the most incoherent post of the day goes to . . .

In attendance wrote:

All I can say is that NXN-SW was a disaster this year!!!! The course was probably the worst excuse for a xc course ever...dusty, dead grass, construction everywhere, absolutely horrible!!! I know for a fact that turned off a lot of athletes/coaches from returning to Tempe next year.

Nike SW was not well planned. Construction at Kiwanis Park had been going on for the past year and the organizers had plenty of time to find a new venue. The organizers of the Doug Conley Invite, which uses the same park, moved their meet to a Tempe golf course earlier this fall. The Nike SW course was the worst I have ever seen, with runners going around the lake between chain link fences and running on sidewalks. It was also very spectator unfriendly. Unless you were a runner it was not possible to see much more than the start and finish.

This has nothing to do with NXN vs. Footlocker. But it reflects poorly on the SW organizers and on AZ. Sorry to those who travelled from out of state. We do have some nice courses in AZ. But this was not one of them.

Reliving one's failed youth days through their child is a known social disorder.

I think that Footlocker is in the way of NXN, it needs to move over!

Non-Problem wrote:

Reliving one's failed youth days through their child is a known social disorder.

And the award for the best non-sequitor of the day goes to . . .

I do not see how Nike gets away with this unless the NHSF is being paid off. You're told that HS teams cannot compete after the season is over and then Nike says all athletes must be from the same team. Is NHSF just looking the other way? They could easily put their put down on all of this.

Now what is football wants to start up a "national championship" with the same team/club rules? Any shoe company trying to start that up would certainly take this to court in order for them to be able to hold their "championship"

Athletes are competing for a USATF club team. The club team can only contain athletes from their own school. Nike imposes the school rule not USATF. In theory, a coach could put together a club with athletes from numerous and "test" the rules but I doubt that will happen. The National Federation simply can not regulate what athletes do as club once the season is over. They are not competing for the high school or as a high school team.

Course wrote:

As cool as it looks, Portland Meadows is a terrible place to hold a national championship race. The mud is often unreasonable and has drastic effects on the race outcome.

Obviously the race is going to stay in the Portland area. So Blue Lake Park is probably the best option. The Jim Danner Invite was held there for years and is a pretty fair course. Especially if NXN were to become the primary individual national championship, it is important that it be contested on a reasonable course, and Blue Lake fits the bill.

I respectfully disagree. Maybe Portland Meadows isn't an ideal course, but very few of those exist and as MVD pointed out, it's very spectator friendly. Regarding the mud, I don't see that changing the outcome. Good CROSS teams, regardless of where they are from, run well in adverse conditions. Some teams suck it up due to the weather, but it's mental not physical. Those teams were defeated long before the start of the race.

I've run at Blue Lake Park and, in my opinion, it's not challenging enough for a cross country national championships. It has a few bumps, but no real hills. Neither does Portland Meadows, but at least the mud makes it a strength course, something I believe should be a part of any good cross course, particularly for a championship race. Ideally, I would love to see a venue in the PDX area that had challenging hills and some mud, but I'm not familiar enough with the area to make a suggestion.

Respectfully Disagree. In many states, indoor track has already started and these athletes are members of the indoor track team.

This is not a good precedent for high school sports. Let adidas try the same thing with basketball or lacrosse or any other sport, either all national championships will come to an end or high school sports will forever be changed

Do you feel the same about Foot Locker?

spokane xc wrote:

North Central is certainly not an affluent team (or from an affluent zone). Neither was Coatesville. They both won team titles.

Yes, The Woodlands, the Illinois teams, they are affluent, but I dont think the affluent argument can be made completely.

I think it holds true more than people want to admit. I know back in my day the Kinney Regionals were waaayyy off, there was no way I could afford to go to that meet. It might as well have been held on Mars.

what team do you know of that possibly could've qualified but didn't make the trip?