Force Recon, no doubt.
As it is, US. Marine Boot Camp is 3 months long, the longest of any U.S. Branch, plus you have to go R.I.C before even getting accepted to Reconnissance school.
Put it this way, why do we need Marines?
ARMY, dont need them, Marines have grunts
AIRFORCE, dont need them either, Marines have their own Air Support.
COAST GUARD, this is a joke, but we do the NAVY, we are part of them.
Its more like why do we need an Army, Airforce or Coast Guard.
I don't know exactly how many medals the Marines have been awarded by the Pentagon, Congress, and President, but it must be alot. There must a website run by a stats geek that has this sort of information.
Red, White, and Blue! wrote:
Which one is tougher?
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Same question - the phrasing is a little different.
Answer: The question is nonsense because there is no right answer.
I don't think we can even guess across national borders. BUT at least within the same national bureaucracy we should be able to gather enough information to come to a conclusion. In the United States, medals for bravery are awarded in Washington, D.C. by the President, Congress, and the Pentagon.
The US Marine Corps is the worlds toughest fightest force. Their battle record is far superior to any other armed force on Earth.
From this most elite force the best of the best are picked to become Marine Force Recon. They then go through the toughest and most rigorous military training on Earth.
Anyone who says differently is delusional and speaks from a total lack of knowledge about the worlds finest fighting forces. All of the other special forces operators go to US Marine training programs to observe and learn and some come to cross train with the Marines.
The Marine Corps isn't called the "Worlds Finest Fighting Force" by accident! The Marines guard the President and all important US installations and embassies worldwide. Wonder why?
Just look at battle records, mission success rates and forget all the Hollywood hype and pop culture crap.
The Marines are currently taking over Afghanistan as the other Armed forces failed to win...the Marines will claim victory!
There is only one world finest.....the US Marines...and their best is Force Recon, the best of the best!
A few years ago there seemed to be a general transition from the M16 to the M4, which is basically an M16 with a much shorter barrel. The M4 does have panache looks-wise. The Special Forces people got the M4 first (it used to be called the CAR) and then everybody else wanted them.
However the 556 cartridge relies on high velocity for its punch, and the short barrel greatly diminishes velocity (less time for the propellant to burn & thus push the bullet forward).
Somewhere I read that the Marines were the only branch to keep the longer barrel. No wannabe-factor in the Marines.
bump
That's not the case at all since WWI when the US stopped fighting wars of attrition and started demanding a 3-for-1 numerical advantage before any operation. Basically the US uses it's technological and manufacturing advantage to win battles. The residual effect of Marines and SEALS thinking they are better fighters is a running joke. The civilian fat-bods who decide the parameters for Marines and SEALS warfare are the real heros.
Marines can't win Afghanistan. Nobody can at the current force levels. Wasn't it MOH winner US Army Sgt Giunta who said "we are at war with the birthrate of Afghanistan and Pakistan". That means the US would need 5 million soldiers to win. Politically that isn't possible. Practically there isn't enough hate for Muslims in America to bring back the draft.
MARSOC anyone?
towhee wrote:
A few years ago there seemed to be a general transition from the M16 to the M4, which is basically an M16 with a much shorter barrel. The M4 does have panache looks-wise. The Special Forces people got the M4 first (it used to be called the CAR) and then everybody else wanted them.
However the 556 cartridge relies on high velocity for its punch, and the short barrel greatly diminishes velocity (less time for the propellant to burn & thus push the bullet forward).
Somewhere I read that the Marines were the only branch to keep the longer barrel. No wannabe-factor in the Marines.
And yet we still use the M16 for 99% of basic training. I suppose it doesn't matter as much for us non-combat arms folks.
Alan
That's for the SF community. Marines aren't part of the SF community. All Marines are used for operations which the other services assign as "SF" categories.
I think today we can put this debate to rest. Navy SEALS FTW!
ns is good for police ops as we had yesterday that's for sure. city p.d. swat teams learn those techniques from the 70s gbs. the cia uses these superb policing outfits to protect out country.
British SAS never killed an armed man in Northeast Ireland; unarmed yes.
I don't want to get in a fight over this, but I've just read a TON of bullshit.
1. No one on here has met a delta force team. Besides the fact that no "delta force" is actually confirmed by the US government, any team resembling them (best of the army special forces) is kept away from civillians during training because of the classified nature of their operations.
2. Marines aren't outright better than the others. That's a load of crap that they sell to get recruits. Read any training manual, bio, etc. It's all the same superior dogma. I've known several marines (and seals) and I would not even begin to consider this. Marine force recon is a different story. The reasons why Marines have such a good battle record are: A. They are sent in much larger teams. B. The jobs they get aren't as tough as SOF's.
If I had to rank them though, I would say that the true TOUGHEST are:
1. SAS.
2. SEALS.
3. Army SF
4. Marine Force Recon close behind.
Now keep in mind that I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but the training of SAS and Seals (and FN if they were in this) is tougher. Skillwise, you would have to include ST6 and their army counterpart ("delta force") because frankly, the average SAS soldier blows the others out of the water.
I was in the Army for 30 years. AR, NV, AF do the CIA and 4 star special ops. MC does not have separate SF enlisted norf SF command structure. MC uses every man for SF ops like was done the other day. AR and MC would love to have 8 months in the Marriott to practice what was done against OBL. Obama's pet op of course was accorded maximum logistics, what a DREAM ! Inter-service rivalry ended after the Pentagon was rebuilt in the mid-80s. SFs for AR, NV, AF structre translate will and integrate easily into SOCOM. MC is slowed down and bored with SOCOM.
UK and US military have $100 Billion worth of fighter jets, helicopters, tanks, drones, satellite, and smart missiles in the Middle East. The soldiers don't have risky jobs. Officers with MBAs and law degrees minimize risk on orders by Democratic politicians and the U.S. President. In contrast, the Islamic freedom fighters fight man to man, with small arms, and light weapons. The life expectancy of the Islamic freedom fighters are about 9 months after training. Most don't live past their 2nd deployment. Yet the Islamic freedom fighters have millions of willing enlistees, both young teenagers and college graduates. The nations fighting for their freedom don't have enough uniforms, weapons, and ammunition they have so many recruits. Like Lara Logan of CBS News said, "The United States is fighting a war with the birth rate of the Islamic World".
Green berets. Have you people seen Rambo First Blood Part 1&2 for godsakes!?
BRUCE LEE
IN ENTER THE DRAGON