Eric Gillis left off Canadian Olympic Team

Not a tool wrote:

Asterix wrote:

Thank you for actually reading and responding to the post instead of the usual routine of some who continue to blow off steam about how everything is wrong and everyone is out to screw athletes while blatantly avoiding answering straightforward questions about their fundamental position. That just shows how much substance they've got to support their blatherings.

how ironic; whats your solution?

and you are always misreading others especially at kingthread. pot kettle.

Funny but the ONLY person who seems to offer a sense of reality is Asterix.

I really have to laugh at people like Wetcoast and Ma Kettle (presumably Herodotus from the past) who seem to have ALL the answers, that the AC/COC committees don't. Perhaps if they were as well-informed as they claim then the committees would be reaching out for their advice. I wonder why that's not the case? It must be a conspiracy to keep athletes off the team, eh?

First of all it's rather naive to think that AC/COC will/should be relieved of their mandate - just who is going to do that, the government? Are their some athletes not going who should be? Perhaps a few, but not as many as seems to be intimated by the posts on this thread. The AC/COC mandate is to produce excellence, and that's not the latter half of the field in the guise of "experience". That's what other meets (Pan Am's and CG) are supposed to accomplish. You may agree or not, and if the latter then get involved with the process (through provincial associations) to change the ideas that you don't like.

Now I think that there are unreasonable things as part of the Olympic qualifying process and that it is far too convoluted. There are things, like the idea behind the "rising star" criteria, that might need to be tweaked, and if so then recommend this to those on the committee (through the athlete reps - Sullivan and Forrester). But to say that the whole system, while not offering any realistic alternative, needs to be replaced, just comes across as plaining whining (or worse bleating).

People like Martin Goulet (and others on the AC Committee) are professionals who have earned the right to be on the these boards - what have you done to deserve to have your opinions matter?

One guy, who as a coach is directly affected by the "system" is DST, but he takes the high road and tries to work with the system, even if it isn't perfect (Name one that is?), it's called dealing with reality. You guys come across as complainers for the sake of complaining. Grow up, you're old enough to know better.

Not a tool wrote:

there you go again; where did i suggest that?

Ok, consider me a dummy and explain what you meant by the line:

"how ironic; whats your solution?"

Stupid me just interpreted it to say that it was ironic I was criticizing those who want to scrap the current system without proposing a new one since I wasn't offering up anything other than the status quo.

Obviously you meant something entirely different. Can you please enlighten my poor brain?

just like your responses to others on this thread and at kingthread=locked canova one at top, you jump to all kinds of crazy conclusions regarding what people apparantly said.

You still have me completely at a loss. I'm not aware of ever having posted on the canova thread or any other labeled as locked. Please show my incompetence by providing a link to a specific post of mine on that thread that offends your sensibilities.

So there's nothing to talk about then? And where did I claim to have all the answers, or bash professionals?

No it's not perfect, and the present reality that we deal with is clearly not good enough, therefore we should discuss selection criteria / philosophy in this thread. Some of us have been trying to do that, without being puonced upon and having everything that we suggested being turned into garbage by people who cannot read properly.

i like movies wrote:In my humble opinion, this is the end of the Rising star process.

I hope not. While the process certainly isn't perfect, I do think this one of the better AC initiatives. The recent world marathon team idea is also a good one.

City Boy who are you at T+F North, seeing as you said I was (and I am!) Hero.

You sound very familiar......

This way I can use some of my old arguments against you! :)

City Boy wrote:

Are their some athletes not going who should be? Perhaps a few,

And if that is how you really feel, then surely we can/should have this debate, right?

Bystander? :)

I've already put forth a couple of my opinions in this thread. I think the trials winner should go, and the selectors should SELECT the rest. I also think our top 3 in each event should go, but whenever us dreamers say things like that, we are told what the "reality of the situation" is. WELL SCREW THAT REALITY! IT'S WRONG. We should have some marathoners there. And if our top guys are several minutes behind the medallists, that is not a reason to not send them.

It just kills me that some of us are getting shit on here by people who have PUT FORTH NO IDEAS THEMSELVES.

Hero...lets put your writing style knowledge to the test here, as I too am from TnF (HHH should be more than familiar).

Gillis is on the team. Regardless of whether people think it's fair or not, he's somehow got a body like AC to believe he's worth sending to the Olympic Games. Nobody else's opinions matter, they are all moot, so put the argument to bed.

Furthermore, AC's selection procedures are what they are. The issue is as dividing in the track community as global warming is in the general public. When all is said and done, no governing body is about to go on letsrun to assess future direction, just like no oil company is going to listen to greenpeace. AC gets shit because they have the power to, and do, make tough decisions, just like oil companies while taking on several environmental initiatives will always take shit for not going in the red for the environment.

And for the petty arguments going on, everybody should know that Hero has his views and although at times ridiculous, continuing to disagree only encourages this behaviour. Let it go, just a thought.

legendary wrote:

And for the petty arguments going on, everybody should know that Hero has his views and although at times ridiculous, continuing to disagree only encourages this behaviour. Let it go, just a thought.

Well, that's just lovely. Lets not debate anything here. It's fine that we send small teams to Olympics, and set high standards at one end, while doing very little to encourage a grassroots movement at the other end. Rome is burning, and we'll just sit on the hillside and watch. Go Huns!

How's that for writing style? Out of 10?

Thanks for proving my point, you will argue your point no matter how meaningless.

Who are the Huns? 0/10.

Ma Kettle wrote:

WELL SCREW THAT REALITY! IT'S WRONG.

I see you yet again either ignored or didn't understand the two previous posts by 'hold the phone' and 'City Boy'. From the latter's post:

"First of all it's rather naive to think that AC/COC will/should be relieved of their mandate - just who is going to do that, the government?"

I know I specifically asked you this before and you didn't answer it then either, so why you'd answer this one, I've no clue. Saying the system is 'wrong' without demonstrating an understanding of how the system (or 'reality') actually is set up and functions, let alone positing a plausible replacement system, is nothing more than a waste of good electrons.

You may want to screw it, but the reality is there is not the private funds available in Canada to support track and field. Just look at how few non-CBC commercials there were during today's Olympic Trials telecast. So the sport is left to depend on public funds (or at least private funds funneled through a monopolistic organization that has a stranglehold on all things Olympic in Canada).

Feel free to continue to rant on about the evil AC and how they are broken and so forth, but most people here have at least understood that they are the middle man in all this and there isn't much they can do to change to your vision of how things should be. Feel free to simply call me names as well, if that will make you feel better, instead of directly contributing to the discussion by addressing the points and questions raised.

If someone would be so kind to list all of the Athletic Events that are available at the Olympics, and compare with what Canada has chosen to partake in, perhaps we could use that as a starting point, and debate the merits of such a scenario.

I don't think we've rwally gotten off the ground here and one reason is your refusal to look at new ways of doing things, rather than just focussing on how things are right now. The "we've always done it this way" syndrome?

Who called A.C. evil?

Who called you names?

It's true that you are not reading very well.

In regards to your last comment about funding for shotputters etc...I'd suggest 'funding for athletics' or 'track & Field'...not funding for a specific event.

To be honest, I don't know what private funding there is however, there are private dollars available.

I will say if ANY country can send more athletes per capita than Canada, then we have a problem in the government or somewhere.

I wouldn't suggest AC telling COC to bugger off. I would suggest someone somewhere negotiate for more money. Private dollars would be an alternative solution.

Another solution is to tell athletes that if they make IAAF standards they can go on their own dime and if they make they make A+ or two A's then Canada will float the bill.

Canada can afford a LOT more money, but decides not to possibly because the public will be up in arms over spending additional dollars on something as superficial as sports, where medical, retirement and other socialist interests lie.

The public needs to be education that 10 million dollars is sweet F all to each and every Canadian, but that 10 mill. could do a lot for athletes and development.

Again, I state that the youth are put off by this kind of garbage. I wonder if we have seen the end of the apathy towards athletics in Canada. I doubt it.

legendary wrote:

Furthermore, AC's selection procedures are what they are. The issue is as dividing in the track community as global warming is in the general public. When all is said and done, no governing body is about to go on letsrun to assess future direction, just like no oil company is going to listen to greenpeace.

Sure, they are what they are. And here we are, on a running discussion board, which AC will not read, I'm sure.....but why can't we discuss what's wrong (if we think there is something wrong), what might be done about it, and why?

What would some of you have us do? Just shut up, because it will never change, and nothing can be done about it?

legendary wrote:

Thanks for proving my point, you will argue your point no matter how meaningless.

Who are the Huns? 0/10.

Dude...the Huns....410AD And All That! WHAT POINT AM I PROVING, EXACTLY? This is meaningless? My life has been this sport for 35 years, and hardly any Canadians are competing in long distance events at the 2008 Olympics. And I'm supposed to not be irritated or moved to want to discuss the sorry situation on a running forum?

Thank you, Wetcoast, for looking at The Bigger Picture here. The only thing I disagree with is "own dime". No way should someone "represent Canada" when they weren't sent by "Canada". I know it happens at World XC and maybe some other events, but it is fundamentally wrong.

I concur that it is fundamentally wrong. But it is better to send someone or allow someone to go, than not and I personally know someone who paid on their own dime for interntational comp and when they won silver, suddenly the money appeared.

hold the phone,

I know when I typed 'COC' the thought ran through my mind that maybe I shouldn't type it...they can't be involved. Regardless the principle is similar/same and the thought of looking for alternative solution still exists.

By the way I am not blowing steam litterally, there are many wrongs happening, I am just discussing one. I is my opinion that there should be a positive solution.

Anyway, you know who I am, who are you? Seeings as I use this psuedonym almost everywhere, it would be more coragious of you to do the same.

Ma Kettle wrote:

legendary wrote:

Thanks for proving my point, you will argue your point no matter how meaningless.

Who are the Huns? 0/10.

Dude...the Huns....410AD And All That! WHAT POINT AM I PROVING, EXACTLY? This is meaningless? My life has been this sport for 35 years, and hardly any Canadians are competing in long distance events at the 2008 Olympics. And I'm supposed to not be irritated or moved to want to discuss the sorry situation on a running forum?

If you had the academic capacity to read and undersand that my initial message, and the grounded statement that the very basis of your entire tirade (sp?) lacks clout of any kind, rendering it moot, then you would see that gashlobering on letsrun like this is a waste of everyone's time.

p.s. I just ran a beer mile, forgive me if my train of thought is flawed in some way, though I doubt it.