Cooper’s best open is 46.03 in May of ‘25. After running a 1:47.04 800m earlier in the same meet (State finals).
Yes, at 16 Lutkenhaus was faster than a lot of guys at 16, including Wariner. Maybe his coach is right and he will break 45 if he spends time focused on it.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
Lutkenhaus bears no relationship to any other runners his age except perhaps for Wilson and Ruthe. That is why those runners feature here - they are standard-out age prodigies. There is nothing typical about their development. Most 9th grade runners might improve their 800 time by 5-10 secs in their careers. Lutkenhaus will absolutely not do that from 1:42x.
At the level he currently is, an "improvement" from 22.1 for the 200 to sub-21 is absolutely a quantum leap. They are times recorded by different types of athletes. Sub-21 is sprinter speed. Lutkenhaus is not a sprinter, he is a md athlete. He will be doing extremely well to go 21-high. That is exceptionally fast for a md athlete.
A 14-year old running 22.1 in March of his 9th grade year “will be doing extremely well to go 21-high” over the course of his entire life is quite possibly the most asinine comment I’ve ever heard.
Lutkenhaus bears no relationship to any other runners his age except perhaps for Wilson and Ruthe. That is why those runners feature here - they are standard-out age prodigies. There is nothing typical about their development. Most 9th grade runners might improve their 800 time by 5-10 secs in their careers. Lutkenhaus will absolutely not do that from 1:42x.
At the level he currently is, an "improvement" from 22.1 for the 200 to sub-21 is absolutely a quantum leap. They are times recorded by different types of athletes. Sub-21 is sprinter speed. Lutkenhaus is not a sprinter, he is a md athlete. He will be doing extremely well to go 21-high. That is exceptionally fast for a md athlete.
A 14-year old running 22.1 in March of his 9th grade year “will be doing extremely well to go 21-high” over the course of his entire life is quite possibly the most asinine comment I’ve ever heard.
If this is how your brain works…
Be safe out there.
He wasn't 14 when he ran his 200 pr, as it was in 2024. He was born in 2008. But even so, if he's continuing to improve he hasn't run any faster over the distance, including in training, and most md runners will run 200s in training. So we are still waiting on 21-high (out of blocks).
Yes, at 16 Lutkenhaus was faster than a lot of guys at 16, including Wariner. Maybe his coach is right and he will break 45 if he spends time focused on it.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
The phrase you are looking for is “improve his 200m” time, not “quantum leap in his best 200m time.”
Most people improve their 9th grade 200m substantially. I’m sure you know this. In fact, I would bet Cooper’s 47.2 open is faster than 90% of every person earth who has run sub 45.
So they all made quantum leaps according to you.
A relevant comp is Will Sumner. Cooper has a faster 200m & 400m time than Sumner did as a sophomore. Showed significantly faster sprinting ability, both 400m/800m focused.
Will ran 45.06 last season coming off of injury at 21.
Cooper’s best open is 46.03 in May of ‘25. After running a 1:47.04 800m earlier in the same meet (State finals).
So? Jesse Owens set 4 world records in three quarters of an hour with a back injury. But I guess a lesser athlete would have tired.
Cooper’s best open is 46.03 in May of ‘25. After running a 1:47.04 800m earlier in the same meet (State finals).
Yes, at 16 Lutkenhaus was faster than a lot of guys at 16, including Wariner. Maybe his coach is right and he will break 45 if he spends time focused on it.
Wariner at 16 isn't comparable. He matured much later. That has why Wilson is a better comparison - and he was two full seconds faster than Lutkenhaus at 16 (and still two seconds faster). He's also showing how hard it is to make big improvements as a hs prodigy. Lutkenhaus will find the same. He isn't going to make the same kind of improvements that Coe and Rudisha did from 17.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
Going from 50 to 48.6 is significantly easier than 48.6 to 47.2.
Going from 1:47 to 1:44 is significantly easier than 1:44 to 1:41.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
Going from 50 to 48.6 is significantly easier than 48.6 to 47.2.
Going from 1:47 to 1:44 is significantly easier than 1:44 to 1:41.
Which is to say, 44.6 is not as far away as 1:39.
You argument assumes a runner of the same level of ability as Lutkenhaus in each case. That is false. To go from 50 to 48.6 may be impossible for a runner who is near their limit at 50 secs. Same for the 1:47 runner over 800. Farah could run that but he would never get to 1:44.
For a runner who is already nearing his peak, which is what Lutkenhaus's 1:42x 800 shows, to take 1.4 secs off a sprint pb - which is what the 400 is - is a quantum improvement. If he can make that kind of improvement over one lap why couldn't he make proportionately the same improvement over two laps - which would be in excess of three seconds?
If Lutkenhaus's speed is not in the region of sub-21 for the 200 he will never run 44.6. Very few 800 specialists could run sub-21 for the 200. Juantorena is the only one I know of - he ran 20.7 (and thus 44.26 for the 400).
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
You’re literally on the record here saying that an improvement in the 800 generally happens without a commensurate improvement in sprint times and you have emphasized multiple times that CL has likely only improved his endurance. But now you go and correlate a 3 sec improvement in the 800 w a 1.4 sec improvement in the 400??!!!😵💫🤪
And of course it’s been pointed out that CL was only a 1:46 guy when he ran his 400 PR (and Owens never ran an 800 during his quadruple sprint/jump prowess ~ it takes a lot more out of your legs than merely sprinting and if you truly were a coach or genuine aficionado, you would know this). CL then subsequently went on to improve his 800 PR by four seconds. So, once again, using your “logic,” it is very conceivable that he’s improved his 400 time by 1.31 seconds. The 3-4 second jump in the 800 you are referring to has already happened!
You are clearly a troll. You actually argue like Harambe and as much. But I believe he’s only in his 30s, so he has yet to learn the humility and wisdom that life will surely teach him. I think you’re like a 70-something year old Kiwi who just has a strong animus against Americans and who has nothing better to do but argue on a message board all day long about such trivialities. Which is sad, honestly.
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
A 14-year old running 22.1 in March of his 9th grade year “will be doing extremely well to go 21-high” over the course of his entire life is quite possibly the most asinine comment I’ve ever heard.
If this is how your brain works…
Be safe out there.
He wasn't 14 when he ran his 200 pr, as it was in 2024. He was born in 2008. But even so, if he's continuing to improve he hasn't run any faster over the distance, including in training, and most md runners will run 200s in training. So we are still waiting on 21-high (out of blocks).
I like how you act like you watch all of his workouts.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
It was a sprint shortly AFTER a distance event silly. Hence, tired legs.
The one thing is obvious with every post - your opinions are that of an observer, not a track runner.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
It was a sprint shortly AFTER a distance event silly. Hence, tired legs.
The one thing is obvious with every post - your opinions are that of an observer, not a track runner.
A *long* sprint at that.
How many pro runners set their 400m open PR in their second race of the day? FIND ONE.
What you do here is engage in pseudo-debates. They're pseudo-debates because you aren't actually engaging in genuine factual and reasoned discussion. You are not listening at all and you aren't taking account of the facts at all. He ran 21.8 at the end of an interval workout, not in a race, not in four races with 10-15 minutes rest between them. He ran 46.30 after running 1:47. Jesse Owens didn't run any 400s or 800s. He was running 100y, 220y. This kid at 17 hasn't come close to maximizing his potential at 400. Wilson runs lots of 400s every year. Lutkenhaus ran one at states last year in May and hasn't run one since. It was his only 400 in a season where he raced the 800 ten times. His first 800 was 1:50. His last was 1:42.27. He dropped 5 seconds in the 800 after the day he ran 46.30. It should be obvious, then, to everyone, as it is to his coach who sees him train every day, that he's a far better 400m runner today.
For a runner who is already nearing his peak, which is what Lutkenhaus's 1:42x 800 shows, to take 1.4 secs off a sprint pb - which is what the 400 is - is a quantum improvement. If he can make that kind of improvement over one lap why couldn't he make proportionately the same improvement over two laps - which would be in excess of three seconds?
If Lutkenhaus's speed is not in the region of sub-21 for the 200 he will never run 44.6. Very few 800 specialists could run sub-21 for the 200. Juantorena is the only one I know of - he ran 20.7 (and thus 44.26 for the 400).
Will Sumner ran 45.06 last year in August with a 200 pr of 21.48.
According to AI, if Lutkenhaus were to be able to run 44-mid for the 400 he would likely need to be able to run 20.5-20.8 for the 200.
Sounds about right. My guess for Cooper's current level in those races is 21.2/45.5, although I do respect his coach saying that Cooper might be able to run faster in the 400, because the coach historically has been a straight shooter.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
See how disingenuous Army is? Comparing short sprints in a meet to someone racing the 800m and then 400m in terms of fatigue/exhaustion. As someone stated earlier in the thread, Army truly is the site’s resident lolcow. As an aside it also shows Army never raced at all, at any distance. He really is here just to troll and argue.
Yes, at 16 Lutkenhaus was faster than a lot of guys at 16, including Wariner. Maybe his coach is right and he will break 45 if he spends time focused on it.
Wariner at 16 isn't comparable. He matured much later. That has why Wilson is a better comparison - and he was two full seconds faster than Lutkenhaus at 16 (and still two seconds faster). He's also showing how hard it is to make big improvements as a hs prodigy. Lutkenhaus will find the same. He isn't going to make the same kind of improvements that Coe and Rudisha did from 17.
How do you know Wariner matured much later? LOL. As noted before, having seen Lutkenhaus in person in Eugene last summer, up close he looked like a gawky teen, a young looking 16 year old. He was as tal as Hoppel and Brazier, that’s why people say silly things. He didn’t look like an early, over-developed 20 year old as you and the other Lutkenhaus haters claim.
This guy can do nothing but lie, make up “facts” to provide as evidence. He is absolutely praying for Lutkenhuas to stumble, to never improve. The fact that a 16 year old ran 1:42 has him hyper-ventilating evry couple of hours.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
See how disingenuous Army is? Comparing short sprints in a meet to someone racing the 800m and then 400m in terms of fatigue/exhaustion. As someone stated earlier in the thread, Army truly is the site’s resident lolcow. As an aside it also shows Army never raced at all, at any distance. He really is here just to troll and argue.
Army just creates strawman arguments while ignoring actual facts that prove him wrong or that he simply dislikes. Bizarre old man. “…all PRs are run on tired legs,” and then he brings up Owens running some vert short races to compare against someone running a hard 800 by a hard 400. Hilarity abounds.