As kind of an aside I want to say how impressive Norpoth is to me. I believe he retired after 1973 so he was in the rankings in each of his last four years. But he was as much if not more a "60s" guy than a "70s" one. He was ranked in the 5,000 every year from 1964 to 1973 except for 1968 when he was ranked fourth in the 1500.
You can see what I did here? 5000m 1963-1980. Number of top 10 World rankings. As you can see Pre was one of the most productive athlete despite his shortened career. So much for the notion that Pre wasn't competitive internationally. Just to make it into the top ten is a major accomplishment. Do it more than once is what makes a legend. Pre did it 5 times!
64-73 9x Harold Norpoth GER 3-8-4-3-8-2-6-6-4 64-71 7x Kip Keino KEN 7-2-1-2-2-4-4 64-70 6x Ron Clarke AUS 2-3-2-1-1-8
65-72 5x Mohamed Gammoudi TUN 9-5-2-9-2 69-76 5x Ian Stewart GBR 3-1-3-5-10 71-75 5x Steve Prefontaine USA 10-4-5-6-9
63-66 4x Michel Jazy FRA 3-4-1-3 63-69 4x Gaston Roelants BEL 8-10-7-6 65-68 4x Gerry Lindgren USA 10-7-9-9 71-75 4x Emiel Puttemans BEL 9-5-1-2 73-76 4x Brendan Foster GBR 3-2-4-5 75-79 4x Rod Dixon NZL 1-4-7-6 75-80 4x Miruts Yifter ETH 8-3-1-1
66-70 3x Allan Rushmer GBR 10-6-10 67-72 3x Ian McCafferty GBR 5-3-8 66-68 3x Lajos Mecser HUN 9-4-5 68-71 3x Jeaan Wadoux FRA 4-7-2 72-76 3x Lasse Viren FIN 1-5-1 72-74 3x Dave Black GBR 9-9-8 73-77 3x Dick Quax NZL 2-2-2 75-78 3x Marty Liquori USA 3-1-2 77-80 3x Suleiman Nyambui TAN 9-4-3 78-80 3x Markus Ryffel SWI 3-8-7
66-68 2x Keisuke Sawaki JAP 6-8 66-69 2x Tracy Smith USA 8-10 69-70 2x Dick Taylor GBR 2-5 67-68 2x Naftali Temu KEN 10-6 71-72 2x Dave Bedford GBR 3-7- 73-74 2x Ben Jipcho KEN 6-1 73-77 2x Manfred Kuschmann EGR 7-3 78-79 2x Henry Rono KEN 1-7 74-75 2x Jos Hermens NED 7-7 74-76 2x Knut Kvalheim NOR 9-8 78-80 2x John Treacy IRE 9-6 79-80 2x Thomas Wessinghage GER 3-2 79-80 2x Aleksandr Fyedotkin USR 5-8
64 Bob Schul USA 1 64 Bill Ballie NZL 5 64 Bill Dellinger USA 6 64 Leonid Ivanov USR 9 64 Michel Bernard FRA 10 65 Mike Wiggs GBR 4 65 Billy Mills USA 5 65 Siegfried Hermann EDR 6 67 Mamo Wolde ETH 7 67 Gennadly Khlistov USR 8 68 Juan Martinez MEX 7 68 Ahmed Zammel TUN 10 69 Rashid Sharafyetdinov USR 4 69 Jurgen May GER 5 69-Bernd Diessner GDR 7 70 Kerry O’Brien AUS 6 70 Gert Eisenberg EGR 9 71 Juha Väätäinen FIN 1 71 Tony Benson AUS 5 71 Dane Korica YUG 7 71 Javier Alvarez SPA 8 72 Gianni Del Buono ITA 10 73 Paul Mose KEN 8 73 Pekka Päivärinta FIN 10 74 Dick Buerkle USA 4 74 Paul Geis USA 10 75 Enn Sellik USSR 6 75 Frank Shorter USA 10 76 Klaus-Peter Hildenbrand GER 3 76 Carlos Lopes POR 6 76 Willy Polleunis BEL 7 76 John Ngeno KEN 9 77 Nick Rose GBR 4 77 Karl Fleschen GER 5 77 Samson Kimobwa KEN 6 77 Dave Fitzsimons AUS 7 77 Manfred Kuschmann EGR 8 77 Filbert Bayi TAN 10 78 Venanzio Ortis ITA 4 78 Aleksandr Fyedotkin USR 5 78 Ilie Floroiu ROM 6 78 Mike Musyoki KEN 8 78 Martti Vainio FIN 10 79 Valeriy Abramov USR 2 79 Mike McLeod GBR 9 79 Sydney Maree RSA 10 80 Kaarlo Maaninka FIN 4 80 Eamonn Coghlan IRL 5 80 Wilson Waigwa KEN 9 80 Dietmar Millonig AUT 10
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
I say no. Frank Shorter is by every measure a much more accomplished runner. He's not a mythic figure like Pre.
I don't know about that. Shorter was born in 1947. Pre in 1951. Pre was entering his prime as Shorter would be exiting it (at least for the time period as running careers were not very long). Pre could have gotten there. He had the brashness and was a draw. Not sure anyone ever showed up at a meet wearing a Shorter shirt.
I also think had Pre lived the course of professional track might have been different. He seemed truly motivated to stop the crap and had the media pull to change things.
How many times did Shorter beat Pre? How many times did Shorter beat me?
They were both great in their own way.
Shorter was just an example of an American runner that reached the pinnacle during the same same time as Pre, with his Olympic gold and silver.
I wasn't trying to make it a debate between the 2 for superiority.
I'm just saying that had he not died, he would have been figure more like Shorter and not the running god that he's made out to be.
I wrote this earlier, but I think his push to get athletes paid would have continued and he had a willing media. Had he blown that system up, he would be known for it. His stature in some ways would have surpassed Shorter's off the track. That includes Shorter being a prominent person in the beginnings of USADA.