Cooper MF Lutkenhaus makes world team 1:42

WhatAreTheirCocktails wrote:

I don't have any opinion on whether he is doping or not but it's interesting because it exposes the bias of this site and its posters.

If someone said that Charles L. Kipruto, a 16-year-old born in December 2008 had just ran a 1:42 low at Kenyan trials, dropping 5 seconds off his best time in 3 months, then almost 100% of this board would accuse him of doping and/or age cheating.

But because it's an American high-schooler from Texas, everyone is coming to his defense despite the fact that the same (reasonable) doubt would apply to any other athlete exhibiting the same age and freakish time drops.

Also laughable is the assertion that middle schoolers/high schoolers can't be doping, or that USADA is a symbol of the fight against anti-doping. 1) We literally just saw what happened at Montverde with the coach doping athletes to run crazy times (Assinga and Hodge, among others), and subsequently getting suspended. Also, Marion Jones literally had a whereabouts violation in high school which her lawyer got overturned (i.e. she was doping from her high school days) 2) It's been confirmed as fact that USADA literally hides positive doping tests.

Again, I'm not saying Lutkenhaus is or isn't doping but the truth is if it were any athlete with the same profile that was not an American male, there would be serious doubt on the legitimacy of his times and improvement.

WhatAreTheirCocktails wrote:

I don't have any opinion on whether he is doping or not but it's interesting because it exposes the bias of this site and its posters.

If someone said that Charles L. Kipruto, a 16-year-old born in December 2008 had just ran a 1:42 low at Kenyan trials, dropping 5 seconds off his best time in 3 months, then almost 100% of this board would accuse him of doping and/or age cheating.

But because it's an American high-schooler from Texas, everyone is coming to his defense despite the fact that the same (reasonable) doubt would apply to any other athlete exhibiting the same age and freakish time drops.

Also laughable is the assertion that middle schoolers/high schoolers can't be doping, or that USADA is a symbol of the fight against anti-doping. 1) We literally just saw what happened at Montverde with the coach doping athletes to run crazy times (Assinga and Hodge, among others), and subsequently getting suspended. Also, Marion Jones literally had a whereabouts violation in high school which her lawyer got overturned (i.e. she was doping from her high school days) 2) It's been confirmed as fact that USADA literally hides positive doping tests.

Again, I'm not saying Lutkenhaus is or isn't doping but the truth is if it were any athlete with the same profile that was not an American male, there would be serious doubt on the legitimacy of his times and improvement.

shsab wrote:

WhatAreTheirCocktails wrote:

I don't have any opinion on whether he is doping or not but it's interesting because it exposes the bias of this site and its posters.

If someone said that Charles L. Kipruto, a 16-year-old born in December 2008 had just ran a 1:42 low at Kenyan trials, dropping 5 seconds off his best time in 3 months, then almost 100% of this board would accuse him of doping and/or age cheating.

But because it's an American high-schooler from Texas, everyone is coming to his defense despite the fact that the same (reasonable) doubt would apply to any other athlete exhibiting the same age and freakish time drops.

Also laughable is the assertion that middle schoolers/high schoolers can't be doping, or that USADA is a symbol of the fight against anti-doping. 1) We literally just saw what happened at Montverde with the coach doping athletes to run crazy times (Assinga and Hodge, among others), and subsequently getting suspended. Also, Marion Jones literally had a whereabouts violation in high school which her lawyer got overturned (i.e. she was doping from her high school days) 2) It's been confirmed as fact that USADA literally hides positive doping tests.

Again, I'm not saying Lutkenhaus is or isn't doping but the truth is if it were any athlete with the same profile that was not an American male, there would be serious doubt on the legitimacy of his times and improvement.

What a worthless argument.

Kenya is a country rife with doping and the Montverde high school thing is historically a complete one off anomaly.

You've brought in two anecdotes and then completely distorted and twisted the reality of the underlying patterns there. You make it seem like there is zero reason to be more suspicious about Kenyans doping. And then you present Marion Jones and Montverde High school, which are literally the only documented instances of this kind of high school doping ever, as some kind of widespread phenomenon.

Your argument is completely irrational. So what is your real reason for being so "suspicious" and leveling heavy accusations at a 16 year old boy?

shsab wrote:

WhatAreTheirCocktails wrote:

I don't have any opinion on whether he is doping or not but it's interesting because it exposes the bias of this site and its posters.

If someone said that Charles L. Kipruto, a 16-year-old born in December 2008 had just ran a 1:42 low at Kenyan trials, dropping 5 seconds off his best time in 3 months, then almost 100% of this board would accuse him of doping and/or age cheating.

But because it's an American high-schooler from Texas, everyone is coming to his defense despite the fact that the same (reasonable) doubt would apply to any other athlete exhibiting the same age and freakish time drops.

Also laughable is the assertion that middle schoolers/high schoolers can't be doping, or that USADA is a symbol of the fight against anti-doping. 1) We literally just saw what happened at Montverde with the coach doping athletes to run crazy times (Assinga and Hodge, among others), and subsequently getting suspended. Also, Marion Jones literally had a whereabouts violation in high school which her lawyer got overturned (i.e. she was doping from her high school days) 2) It's been confirmed as fact that USADA literally hides positive doping tests.

Again, I'm not saying Lutkenhaus is or isn't doping but the truth is if it were any athlete with the same profile that was not an American male, there would be serious doubt on the legitimacy of his times and improvement.

What a worthless argument.

Kenya is a country rife with doping and the Montverde high school thing is historically a complete one off anomaly.

You've brought in two anecdotes and then completely distorted and twisted the reality of the underlying patterns there. You make it seem like there is zero reason to be more suspicious about Kenyans doping. And then you present Marion Jones and Montverde High school, which are literally the only documented instances of this kind of high school doping ever, as some kind of widespread phenomenon.

Your argument is completely irrational. So what is your real reason for being so "suspicious" and leveling heavy accusations at a 16 year old boy?

Wasnt gonna post wrote:

shsab wrote:

What a worthless argument.

Kenya is a country rife with doping and the Montverde high school thing is historically a complete one off anomaly.

You've brought in two anecdotes and then completely distorted and twisted the reality of the underlying patterns there. You make it seem like there is zero reason to be more suspicious about Kenyans doping. And then you present Marion Jones and Montverde High school, which are literally the only documented instances of this kind of high school doping ever, as some kind of widespread phenomenon.

Your argument is completely irrational. So what is your real reason for being so "suspicious" and leveling heavy accusations at a 16 year old boy?

When *I* read his post I thought it was rationale and well reasoned. Your response, on the other hand. Is worthless. The truth of the matter is that a 16 year old improved his time a “hard to believe” amount this year. If he went from 1:50 to 1:45 it would be hard to believe. To get to 1:42…. Truly it takes a special kind of hypocrisy to unquestioningly accept.
Something to consider: the mile record for a 16yo is 3:55 by Cam Myers. His 1:42.27 is worth 3:45 according to the scoring tables. It’s not just an outlier. It’s incredibly suspicious. If he is on PEDs, it’s possible he doesn’t know. He seems genuine and likable. I hope he’s clean. I seriously doubt it.