At least in athletics doping is met with opprobrium.
I went to Barry Bonds day at Oracle last weekend. Got a bobble head. 40, 000 strong gave him a standing ovation when he threw out the first pitch.
All game long between innings his former teammates and opponents and other dignitaries of the sport collectively said he was the best they'd ever seen.
Not a person cared about Balco.
Meantime…Regina Jacobs is a real estate agent.
Good for her? What else would she be doing? There wouldn’t be any Regina Jacobs bobble head days regardless of doping.
Ok, that's true, but she's an athletics pariah, you agree, right? Just pointing out that Bonds remains royalty. Not only in SF. They had video messages from Maddux and Peavy, etc saying that Bonds was the goat as far as they are concerned. Just pointing out the double standard and lauding most serious track and field people as being less accepting of cheating.
Rojo - please, plese, please do not let this thread get "rekrunnered". He stated his opinion and that should be enough. We don't need dozens of posts on it. Please do not let him hijack this thread which is what inevitably happens once he starts posting. And yes, nobody should be engaging with him either.
The men's world record is 2:04:56 by Kengo Suzuki and the women's world record is 2:18:29 by Emily Sisson. Every African time before them is dirty no if ands or buts. Throw Paula in that mix too. She was dirty as hell. This is really f$%ked up. You can't believe ANYTHING in our sport now. It's so much dirtier than cycling ever was.
How is HCTZ (a diuretic as noted) "performance enhancing"- not performance depleting...like running in 80*/95% humidity. I would like to see more of the science here. Most runners I know who are on a diuretic for hypertension, heart failure, edema would NOT take this before running. Besides "masking" other substances would like to see more here.
I knew it! Since the Chicago, 2:09 wasn't possible. Usually the coach knows, the race director knows
Chepn’getich always a weird case. There was a point early in her career where the majors seemed to be shutting her out. She won Worlds and that changed (a top Kenyan woman running Worlds on its face is strange). Her schedule was odd too for a few years- Nagoya (an obvious money-grab) and Chicago every year. Both shallow races, where she’d run a similar playbook. And then she trains all by herself, and is self-coached. Her form was always somewhat erratic, too. Of Kenyan women marathoners she was never off the top spot as far as most likely to get busted, even before the sub-2:10.
Yeah but even if my point is irrelevant to your point it is also true: Barry Bonds was one of the top 50 players in MLB history before the period when it is generally accepted he started doping. The man was born to be a baseball player.
BS. I remember the Pittsburg Pirate version of Barry Bonds and in no way was he a top 50 player ALL-TIME. Pull your head out of that orifice of yours.
I think this is a valid take. I wonder if another measure is to simply make agents pay heavily. Imagine if Rosa now paid a massive fine that financially ramped up targeted testing of his best athletes. Think he might take closer order of his athletes then?
That's the best idea I've heard. And make it progressive.
Warning, 6k, 25k, 100k, 400k, 1 million. But it would be really hard to implement.
Rojo you have voice here too. Stop acknowledging these Kenyans records and wins as legitimate. You obviously have a duty to report the news in the sport, but no more black pages or calling these frauds "world record holders" unless in is in quotation marks.
Everyone at the top is doing it. You think Jakob, Hocker, and even Wightman are possibly clean? Don't be naive.
Yes, I think Wightman could very well be clean. Statistically, 1:43.65/3:29.23 PBs are a hell of a lot more believable than 3:26.73/7:17.55 and dominating 3 straight 5k Championships.
I believe in clean world class runners, and even the occasional gold medalist. Anyone who puts up mind blowing records, whether it’s Kipyegon and Chebet from Kenya, or Jakob and Warholm from Norway, I figure has to be receiving pharmaceutical help.
I think you mean - Jakob is white and running almost as fast as African over a quarter-of-a century ago, therefore he must be as dirty as an African woman running a marathon almost as fast as men were running it 25 years ago.
The men's world record is 2:04:56 by Kengo Suzuki and the women's world record is 2:18:29 by Emily Sisson. Every African time before them is dirty no if ands or buts. Throw Paula in that mix too. She was dirty as hell. This is really f$%ked up. You can't believe ANYTHING in our sport now. It's so much dirtier than cycling ever was.
Thank you. I have been wondering what the clean world records are. We are so fortunate that you are able to provide this information. Please let us know if/when these clean records are broken.
Yeah but even if my point is irrelevant to your point it is also true: Barry Bonds was one of the top 50 players in MLB history before the period when it is generally accepted he started doping. The man was born to be a baseball player.
BS. I remember the Pittsburg Pirate version of Barry Bonds and in no way was he a top 50 player ALL-TIME. Pull your head out of that orifice of yours.
You obviously don’t understand the game. If you want, I can educate you.
That's the best idea I've heard. And make it progressive.
Warning, 6k, 25k, 100k, 400k, 1 million. But it would be really hard to implement.
Why stop there? Time to require the NCAA to test all incoming Kenyans/internationals at New Mexico, Ok State, Arizona, Oregon, Alabama, Texas Tech, etc. If they test positive the Coaches should be banned and the schools fined/suspended.
There's too much NIL/Scholarship money on the line to just let it slide. Maybe a % of the NIL money should go towards funding an NCAA testing program.
Why stop there? Time to require the NCAA to test all athletes in all sports, period. It is not as if PEDs are used only by international students. Asinga may have run for Suriname but he was getting his stuff from a US high school; there are plenty more where that came from.
You are indeed correct. Diuretic use causes depletion of Sodium and Potassium along with fluid loss. This would NOT be performance enhancing. I assume the focus here is masking another drug that would have been beneficial. Too many people on this thread without medical training rather stupidly lump all "Drugs" together.
Yeah but even if my point is irrelevant to your point it is also true: Barry Bonds was one of the top 50 p layers in MLB history before the period when it is generally accepted he started doping. The man was born to be a baseball player.
BS. I remember the Pittsburg Pirate version of Barry Bonds and in no way was he a top 50 player ALL-TIME. Pull your head out of that orifice of yours.
BOnds is widely considered the top offensive player of the 90s, and at worst #2 behind Jr., before steroids.
top player of the decade equals top 50 all-time. ALL DAY
Everyone at the top is doing it. You think Jakob, Hocker, and even Wightman are possibly clean? Don't be naive.
Yes, I think Wightman could very well be clean. Statistically, 1:43.65/3:29.23 PBs are a hell of a lot more believable than 3:26.73/7:17.55 and dominating 3 straight 5k Championships.
I believe in clean world class runners, and even the occasional gold medalist. Anyone who puts up mind blowing records, whether it’s Kipyegon and Chebet from Kenya, or Jakob and Warholm from Norway, I figure has to be receiving pharmaceutical help.
It's pretty depressing because there's no place to draw the line. Honestly, Wightman is clean but Jakob is not? No, Wightman is just a lesser talent and so his doping gets him 3:29 instead of 3:27. Back to baseball it's like Rafael Palmeiro doping versus Bonds. You can't assume anything based on the times, though I do think late career improvements and big jumps out of step with expected progression and early talent (before it's reasonable to think many teens are doping) are legit red flags. Anyway, I have no more confidence in Wightman than Jakob.