Yes, I agree with you that the level in the 70s and 80s was definitely higher, but I was more referring to the 2010s — based on my own experience in the federation and the community. Back then, the focus was really on doing very little training overall. But it’s important to mention: Coe actually did high volume aerobic training — like fast 30 km long runs, for example. So he wasn’t just doing hard intervals; he also ran his easy runs at a solid pace. So it was more like high-volume sub-threshold work as well. And as we can see, his times were really strong
I think it is due to more kids training harder for a longer period of time. How many miles was Nico running in High School? I mean probably like 100s per week. Graham? He took a gap year and ran 100s of miles per week. Grant was running at a high level throughout highschool.
I think Yared is an example of just an exceptional talent who started training really in college, those kind of runners were how prior USA distance runners. Now you have to be like a 14 minute 5k runners to get college looks, no time to not train hard even in highschool.
Rosa has revolutionized the training methodology in Kenya — especially through fast long runs, which have a similar effect to double threshold sessions. Before that, the Kenyans didn’t really train in a structured way — they just ran around a lot. And yes… when you’re already training extremely hard and with high volume at altitude, EPO doesn’t really give you any extra advantage. Our bodies and vascular systems have limits — we can’t have an unlimited amount of blood.
Rosa revolutionized the sport in Africa when EPO became available and he started pumping Kenyans full of the juice before the ‘87 season. This isn’t even arguable. Anyone who has spent time in Africa knows that Africans will do anything to come out ahead, to get more shekels. Anything.
Rosa has revolutionized the training methodology in Kenya — especially through fast long runs, which have a similar effect to double threshold sessions. Before that, the Kenyans didn’t really train in a structured way — they just ran around a lot. And yes… when you’re already training extremely hard and with high volume at altitude, EPO doesn’t really give you any extra advantage. Our bodies and vascular systems have limits — we can’t have an unlimited amount of blood.
Rosa revolutionized the sport in Africa when EPO became available and he started pumping Kenyans full of the juice before the ‘87 season. This isn’t even arguable. Anyone who has spent time in Africa knows that Africans will do anything to come out ahead, to get more shekels. Anything.
These guys like to act like PEDs are something new. Arnold Schwarzenegger was Mr. Olympia in the 1970s and was juicing heavily.
Arnold & the top Golden era guys (Ferrigno, Zane, Waller, Robinson, etc) weren't heavily juiced - at least no way near than today's mass monsters. It usually was 2 or 3 moderate doses of oral & injectable anabolic steroids back then (e.g. D-bol, Deca, Primo, etc).
I'm a blast from the past having competed in the Golden era where physiques looked aesthetic & pleasing compared to today's grotesque mass monsters. 💪
Still a complete moron. Advances in scientific knowledge are not the same as works of art. The artists of today have not produced works greater than those of da Vinci and Michelangelo - they have only produced works of art. Recent does not mean better than those that went before. You can't open your mouth without disclosing your idiocy. Your analogy to advances in sports training fails but your vanity makes you unable to admit it.
Still pure self-projection. Many say coaching is an art. The moron and the vanity you see is your own self-reflection projected onto others -- see old man shouts at clouds.
In Bach's, Mozart's, and Beethoven's day, notes and chords were not new, some dating as far back as the ancient Greeks.
This is your analogy, but in Da Vinci's and Michelangelo's day, paint was not new, dating as far back as the caveman era.
When you say threshold training is not new, it's the same as saying notes and chords and paint and canvas are not new. These existing building blocks were not invented by these artists, but combined in new ways to achieve something new.
But creating new things didn't stop with these artists.
If I am shouting at the sky then so is every other poster who posts a thread on doping or who speculates on such threads. There is no point in giving you "something you cannot deny" because you must deny everything. That is your lunacy.
You may be right that you are not the only one. I only deny your over-active imagination and your fanatical devotion to your baseless mythology, because you are unable to give me any basis, lacking both knowledge and facts.
If someone had the answer to the question "which new drug" is causing today's American pro, college, and high school records, surely we would have seen it by now in these 10 pages, from some anonymous whistleblower insider, rather than the sad devotion of Grandpa Simpsons clinging to uninformed myths told to them long ago around campfires when they were gullible and naive.
What is also clear is that the old drugs did not produce any Americans running 3:27, 7:22, and 12:45, before the era of supershoes. It seems more likely that the new drug is PEBAX, served to athletes on a carbon-fiber plate.
FYI the American 1500 m record of 3:27.40 from 2004 predates the super spikes.
True (in part) -- World Athletics still lists Lagat as Kenyan.
If we look at the non-African Americans before Hocker and Kessler, none ran sub-3:30, and the fastest was Centro, in 3:30.40, in a race he took 10th, followed by Webb, Wheating, Manzano, and Jim Spivey at 3:31.01 in 1988 -- all before supershoes. The African Americans Lagat, Nuguse, and Maree all ran sub-3:29 -- Lagat and Maree before supershoes.
I know it's the letsrun way, but I am not a fan of dividing Americans into different classes based on their parents.
Well surely not for its own sake.
I'm more a fan of looking for mathematical correlations in data, whether it is an African connection (seems to be one for sprinters and distance runners), or whether it is shoes in the modern supershoe era.
FYI the American 1500 m record of 3:27.40 from 2004 predates the super spikes.
LOL. That AR was set by a fraud who was caught red-handed using EPO and was let off due to the ‘muh poor Africans’ mentality of crooked officials trying to make social statements. Lagat was one of the dirtiest athletes of the EPO era.
Since no one has been able to describe what they claim are better training methods and HS athletes are also showing this stunning improvement and the drop in times happens to correlate with the “super shows”, then, there is only 1 conclusion. ITS THE SHOES, and factor in the “super tracks”
Yes. It is the shoes. They're good for 4-7 seconds/mile.
But knowledge through the Internet has also increased - 1) You know how how fast the competition is running 2) You can figure out pretty much how everyone is training.
With that being said, there's still only maybe 10% of high school coaches that care or give a d@mn so the untapped potential out there is still huge.
We should actually be grateful that Brosnan was the Young's and the Sahlman's coach. If they were in another school district we probably wouldn't know they exist.
I think you have this in reverse. If they were in another school district, we certainly wouldn't know Brosnan exists.
Still a complete moron. Advances in scientific knowledge are not the same as works of art. The artists of today have not produced works greater than those of da Vinci and Michelangelo - they have only produced works of art. Recent does not mean better than those that went before. You can't open your mouth without disclosing your idiocy. Your analogy to advances in sports training fails but your vanity makes you unable to admit it.
Still pure self-projection. Many say coaching is an art. The moron and the vanity you see is your own self-reflection projected onto others -- see old man shouts at clouds.
In Bach's, Mozart's, and Beethoven's day, notes and chords were not new, some dating as far back as the ancient Greeks.
This is your analogy, but in Da Vinci's and Michelangelo's day, paint was not new, dating as far back as the caveman era.
When you say threshold training is not new, it's the same as saying notes and chords and paint and canvas are not new. These existing building blocks were not invented by these artists, but combined in new ways to achieve something new.
But creating new things didn't stop with these artists.
You are surely one of the densest posters here. I never suggested the classical masters in either art or music used methods or techniques that had never been employed before but that they created works that have never been surpassed. You dig deeper only to bury yourself in your stupidity and your vanity at trying to show your falsehoods are somehow true. It's all you do.
I know it's the letsrun way, but I am not a fan of dividing Americans into different classes based on their parents.
Well surely not for its own sake.
I'm more a fan of looking for mathematical correlations in data, whether it is an African connection (seems to be one for sprinters and distance runners), or whether it is shoes in the modern supershoe era.
FYI the American 1500 m record of 3:27.40 from 2004 predates the super spikes.
LOL. That AR was set by a fraud who was caught red-handed using EPO and was let off due to the ‘muh poor Africans’ mentality of crooked officials trying to make social statements. Lagat was one of the dirtiest athletes of the EPO era.
FYI the American 1500 m record of 3:27.40 from 2004 predates the super spikes.
LOL. That AR was set by a fraud who was caught red-handed using EPO and was let off due to the ‘muh poor Africans’ mentality of crooked officials trying to make social statements. Lagat was one of the dirtiest athletes of the EPO era.
You’re deluded if you believe that anti-doping officials announced a positive test only to scrub it for non-factual reasons.
Rather, you should look to Regina Jacobs as an actual example of hushing away a result, as she tested positive after winning the American trials in 1995 but quietly withdrew from the world championships and never faced any further consequences or shame for it.