I'm sorry, but cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if it's MLB or beer league softball. Most of us have grown up playing sports and recognizing there are rules to be followed and a sense of fair play to aspire to. These are objective rules to follow, no matter your age or level.
As a masters runner myself, I fully realize the low stakes when compared to other levels of running. If the stakes are that low, why would some runners feel the need to use PEDs? It's because the stakes aren't that low at the individual level.
The more I thought about this story the other day, the more annoyed I became. Most of the masters runners I know started young in this sport and have continued for many years because they love the sport. Once a person starts to take PEDs, though, they prove they love themselves more than they love the sport.
If I found out my opponent in beer league softball was on TRT, I can tell you I wouldn’t care. Few people would.
Do you want to drug test the over-60 men’s church softball league? Probably not. Why? Because it just isn’t worth the time and money. You don’t care that much. Neither does anyone else.
You get my point - there is a level of competition that we don’t drug test, or even rigidly enforce the rules. Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.
Look, someday I’ll almost certainly get on TRT. It’s available, so why not? I won’t do it to go up a few places at whatever old folks competition, to win the zero prizes they offer. I’ll do it to feel better, look better, and continue to be active as I age. I don’t want to have to give up all organized competition for life, including beer league softball. It just seems a little legalistic to me.
If I were getting into organized mixed martial arts, I would embrace drug testing at any age and at every level of competition, then TRT use could put people in actual danger,. But 70 year olds jogging a 5k is not that important.
"70 year olds jogging a 5K" is an insult to the older guys out there racing. Their pace might be "jogging" to you but they are going all out. There is nothing more "important" about the times of the younger age groups. Comparing a 5K to beer league softball is also ridiculous. Are you even a runner?
I feel like in a decade or two there's going to be a large amount of geriatric men suffering from complications from over-medicating with TRT from these shady doctors.
I agree.
A lot of men that were age-defying studs at age 60 thanks to TRT and PEDs are going to suddenly die of previously rare cancers at 65-70. There will be lots of, "He just ran a sub-three hour marathon in April in Boston! Now he's dead in October. He looked so healthy. I don't understand?!".
The two of you are spot on. (Although TRT is more likely to cause blood clots and heart disease than cancer, it can and will do both).
When I was doing my internal medicine residency, (2004-7), regulatory agencies decided that ‘pain is the 5th vital sign’. The result of that was a massive increase in opioid prescriptions, because you “can’t let your patients suffer, just like you would treat a fever to bring it down, you should treat pain”. Our residency program director’s response was to put in place an ‘opioid prescription contract’ that patients had to sign if we were to prescribe them.
She was an immigrant from Ghana, and her rationale was “people in this country are way too happy to take meds… we don’t have patience or restraint, and we want an easy fix for everything. Mark my words, in 15 yrs we are going to have an opioid crisis”.
I'm sorry, but cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if it's MLB or beer league softball. Most of us have grown up playing sports and recognizing there are rules to be followed and a sense of fair play to aspire to. These are objective rules to follow, no matter your age or level.
As a masters runner myself, I fully realize the low stakes when compared to other levels of running. If the stakes are that low, why would some runners feel the need to use PEDs? It's because the stakes aren't that low at the individual level.
The more I thought about this story the other day, the more annoyed I became. Most of the masters runners I know started young in this sport and have continued for many years because they love the sport. Once a person starts to take PEDs, though, they prove they love themselves more than they love the sport.
If I found out my opponent in beer league softball was on TRT, I can tell you I wouldn’t care. Few people would.
Do you want to drug test the over-60 men’s church softball league? Probably not. Why? Because it just isn’t worth the time and money. You don’t care that much. Neither does anyone else.
You get my point - there is a level of competition that we don’t drug test, or even rigidly enforce the rules. Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.
Look, someday I’ll almost certainly get on TRT. It’s available, so why not? I won’t do it to go up a few places at whatever old folks competition, to win the zero prizes they offer. I’ll do it to feel better, look better, and continue to be active as I age. I don’t want to have to give up all organized competition for life, including beer league softball. It just seems a little legalistic to me.
If I were getting into organized mixed martial arts, I would embrace drug testing at any age and at every level of competition, then TRT use could put people in actual danger,. But 70 year olds jogging a 5k is not that important.
“Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.”
“I don’t want to have to…”
Ahh, the old aszhole narcissist rhetoric rears its ugly head.
Unilaterally deciding for everyone what “matters”.
Then marginalizing those who don’t agree into a deviant psychopathology.
Finally, the exaltation of the personal psychology over the collective, to its detriment.
So classic.
What narcissists like this don’t understand is that they derive no net benefit from their actions. We are social creatures, no man is an island. Even if one lacks empathy and purports to not care about what others think, they are still subject to what others do, which often depends on what those others say to each other.
And what others do affects the narcissist, whether they acknowledge the fact or not.
How about NO masters track, you dumb F? Participation is dying among the young, and an increasing number of guys like me don’t care to play a role in a circus. The leftover boomers are fewer in number every day.
The death of masters track is what you are helping to achieve, and masters track is something you psychologically need, because you are a USER.
Rather than time-trialling by yourself, you need the company of others—either for structure, acknowledgment, drafting, measurement, or dynamics—in order to achieve psychological satisfaction.
By displaying such a need, you evidence that you are mentally completely WEAK. If you were very strong, you wouldn’t be dissatisfied with your natural performance, and you wouldn’t use…and if you were only somewhat strong, you would use, and TT by yourself or with similarly-minded friends.
This logic will NEVER have any effect on you, because your very nature doesn’t permit it. I write this not for you, but as a contribution to the broader understanding of your condition. What merit, if any, broader society assigns to my views will be a matter of community standards—but I believe it important to contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
On a personal level, I think that people with these traits are sometimes aggravating, sometimes pathetic, but always aszholes.
I trained and raced for 47 years. It took a lot to finally let it all go. I could never understand taking PED’s at any age but to win age group races at 70?
Let it go. What did you do when it really counted? Were you even around?
I was volunteering at a race the other day and was picking up trash with my trash bag during the awards ceremony and the RD decided to ask the old gentlemen on stage how long they had been at it. Of the top 3, the longest any of the old geezers had been at it was 15 years. The RD was shocked, he thought he’d entertain the crowd with stories these guys would tell about tongue depressors and hand held timers spitting out finishing times on paper.
If I found out my opponent in beer league softball was on TRT, I can tell you I wouldn’t care. Few people would.
Do you want to drug test the over-60 men’s church softball league? Probably not. Why? Because it just isn’t worth the time and money. You don’t care that much. Neither does anyone else.
You get my point - there is a level of competition that we don’t drug test, or even rigidly enforce the rules. Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.
Look, someday I’ll almost certainly get on TRT. It’s available, so why not? I won’t do it to go up a few places at whatever old folks competition, to win the zero prizes they offer. I’ll do it to feel better, look better, and continue to be active as I age. I don’t want to have to give up all organized competition for life, including beer league softball. It just seems a little legalistic to me.
If I were getting into organized mixed martial arts, I would embrace drug testing at any age and at every level of competition, then TRT use could put people in actual danger,. But 70 year olds jogging a 5k is not that important.
“Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.”
“I don’t want to have to…”
Ahh, the old aszhole narcissist rhetoric rears its ugly head.
Unilaterally deciding for everyone what “matters”.
Then marginalizing those who don’t agree into a deviant psychopathology.
Finally, the exaltation of the personal psychology over the collective, to its detriment.
So classic.
What narcissists like this don’t understand is that they derive no net benefit from their actions. We are social creatures, no man is an island. Even if one lacks empathy and purports to not care about what others think, they are still subject to what others do, which often depends on what those others say to each other.
And what others do affects the narcissist, whether they acknowledge the fact or not.
How about NO masters track, you dumb F? Participation is dying among the young, and an increasing number of guys like me don’t care to play a role in a circus. The leftover boomers are fewer in number every day.
The death of masters track is what you are helping to achieve, and masters track is something you psychologically need, because you are a USER.
Rather than time-trialling by yourself, you need the company of others—either for structure, acknowledgment, drafting, measurement, or dynamics—in order to achieve psychological satisfaction.
By displaying such a need, you evidence that you are mentally completely WEAK. If you were very strong, you wouldn’t be dissatisfied with your natural performance, and you wouldn’t use…and if you were only somewhat strong, you would use, and TT by yourself or with similarly-minded friends.
This logic will NEVER have any effect on you, because your very nature doesn’t permit it. I write this not for you, but as a contribution to the broader understanding of your condition. What merit, if any, broader society assigns to my views will be a matter of community standards—but I believe it important to contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
On a personal level, I think that people with these traits are sometimes aggravating, sometimes pathetic, but always aszholes.
😁
are you saying both that
1/ we are social creatures and no man is an island
and
2/ the mentally healthy will just do time trials on their 'island' and be satisfied?
Seems a contradiction, unless I am missing something. Are we by nature social creatures or should we aspire to not being social creatures?
“Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.”
“I don’t want to have to…”
Ahh, the old aszhole narcissist rhetoric rears its ugly head.
Unilaterally deciding for everyone what “matters”.
Then marginalizing those who don’t agree into a deviant psychopathology.
Finally, the exaltation of the personal psychology over the collective, to its detriment.
So classic.
What narcissists like this don’t understand is that they derive no net benefit from their actions. We are social creatures, no man is an island. Even if one lacks empathy and purports to not care about what others think, they are still subject to what others do, which often depends on what those others say to each other.
And what others do affects the narcissist, whether they acknowledge the fact or not.
How about NO masters track, you dumb F? Participation is dying among the young, and an increasing number of guys like me don’t care to play a role in a circus. The leftover boomers are fewer in number every day.
The death of masters track is what you are helping to achieve, and masters track is something you psychologically need, because you are a USER.
Rather than time-trialling by yourself, you need the company of others—either for structure, acknowledgment, drafting, measurement, or dynamics—in order to achieve psychological satisfaction.
By displaying such a need, you evidence that you are mentally completely WEAK. If you were very strong, you wouldn’t be dissatisfied with your natural performance, and you wouldn’t use…and if you were only somewhat strong, you would use, and TT by yourself or with similarly-minded friends.
This logic will NEVER have any effect on you, because your very nature doesn’t permit it. I write this not for you, but as a contribution to the broader understanding of your condition. What merit, if any, broader society assigns to my views will be a matter of community standards—but I believe it important to contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
On a personal level, I think that people with these traits are sometimes aggravating, sometimes pathetic, but always aszholes.
😁
are you saying both that
1/ we are social creatures and no man is an island
and
2/ the mentally healthy will just do time trials on their 'island' and be satisfied?
Seems a contradiction, unless I am missing something. Are we by nature social creatures or should we aspire to not being social creatures?
In an amusing twist, I do 2/ instead of racing, despite eschewing all medications. I find them just as satisfying useful for fitness feedback and more convenient.
I am also shall we say very frugal when it comes to both racing and sport expenditures and what goes into my body.
“Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.”
“I don’t want to have to…”
Ahh, the old aszhole narcissist rhetoric rears its ugly head.
Unilaterally deciding for everyone what “matters”.
Then marginalizing those who don’t agree into a deviant psychopathology.
Finally, the exaltation of the personal psychology over the collective, to its detriment.
So classic.
What narcissists like this don’t understand is that they derive no net benefit from their actions. We are social creatures, no man is an island. Even if one lacks empathy and purports to not care about what others think, they are still subject to what others do, which often depends on what those others say to each other.
And what others do affects the narcissist, whether they acknowledge the fact or not.
How about NO masters track, you dumb F? Participation is dying among the young, and an increasing number of guys like me don’t care to play a role in a circus. The leftover boomers are fewer in number every day.
The death of masters track is what you are helping to achieve, and masters track is something you psychologically need, because you are a USER.
Rather than time-trialling by yourself, you need the company of others—either for structure, acknowledgment, drafting, measurement, or dynamics—in order to achieve psychological satisfaction.
By displaying such a need, you evidence that you are mentally completely WEAK. If you were very strong, you wouldn’t be dissatisfied with your natural performance, and you wouldn’t use…and if you were only somewhat strong, you would use, and TT by yourself or with similarly-minded friends.
This logic will NEVER have any effect on you, because your very nature doesn’t permit it. I write this not for you, but as a contribution to the broader understanding of your condition. What merit, if any, broader society assigns to my views will be a matter of community standards—but I believe it important to contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
On a personal level, I think that people with these traits are sometimes aggravating, sometimes pathetic, but always aszholes.
😁
are you saying both that
1/ we are social creatures and no man is an island
and
2/ the mentally healthy will just do time trials on their 'island' and be satisfied?
Seems a contradiction, unless I am missing something. Are we by nature social creatures or should we aspire to not being social creatures?
1) -yes
2) -I said that the "only somewhat strong" would use and do only individual TT's. This does not necessarily equate to "mentally healthy", which itself is of course a spectrum. It does take some strength of character to understand that you are not best serving yourself or the society of which you are a part, if you are using and compete with others who don't, in a system that actually sanctions discovered use.
Although the post was of course hastily written, there is no contradiction, and no need to import such a nebulous concept as "mental health". A word such as "narcissism" describes a character trait, which when combined with others, may or may not rise to a generally-accepted disorder, or a deficit of good mental health. In the extreme, a diagnosis of NPD may be appropriate, which condition is generally accepted as not "mentally healthy", to use your term.
1/ we are social creatures and no man is an island
and
2/ the mentally healthy will just do time trials on their 'island' and be satisfied?
Seems a contradiction, unless I am missing something. Are we by nature social creatures or should we aspire to not being social creatures?
In an amusing twist, I do 2/ instead of racing, despite eschewing all medications. I find them just as satisfying useful for fitness feedback and more convenient.
I am also shall we say very frugal when it comes to both racing and sport expenditures and what goes into my body.
Exactly. Not participating in social races can be fine, depending on your personal situation and your reasoning--and there can be a great many reasons.
re: sprints vs distance
In my many years, I have come to realize that sprinting (actual sprinting) is not a useful measure of general fitness, it is a measure of a very specific type of fitness: fitness for the sole purpose of going 100m as quickly as possible. It is a composite of various specific fitnesses: coordination, power, technique/proprioception, anaerobic alactic/lactic depending on duration, mental focus, etc.
IMO it is not terribly useful as a measure of fitness, if your aim is to keep track of your health as measured by ability.
I still do sprint workouts, but not as an indicator of health, or a measure of the rate of my inevitable decline in ability. I do weights, biking with power measurement, stretching, sometimes rowing, and timed distance runs with level of effort estimation to keep track of my ability, and its decline with time.
If there is any sudden or inexplicable drop in ability, I will consider it a possible indicator of a health condition, and look into it.
My fantasy is that if you push yourself to or near your limit, you will detect diminution sooner, because you will have used up all the normal ability and headroom, so any deficit will have nowhere to hide. This may help detect a health condition sooner rather than later. Again, just my fantasy.
But for me this all works, because I just plain like going hard, no matter if it is on the track, on a bike, in the weightroom, in the pool, whatever.
I like breaking the world into 2 populations, for ease of illustration, in any particular situation. In this one, there are 2 kinds of people in the world:
1) those who enjoy going hard
2) those who do not enjoy going hard.
I am in category (1), and live my life accordingly. Yes I may die from something like a ruptured aneurysm due to over-exertion sooner than a category (2) person might, who never exerts to such a level. I have dialed back some ridiculous and unjustifiable-by-this-logic behaviors on the advice of my wife, so I might have the best of both worlds.
I think the keys are 1) start off at the highest level possible, and 2) dial back BEFORE you diminish naturally. As an example, I used to squat 4 - 4-1/2 plates. I have dialed that back to 3 plates, but do more reps. Instead of going to failure at, say, 2 reps, I now go to failure or almost to failure doing maybe 8 reps.
Could I do more than 3 plates? Yes. I have taken it down to 3, but still penetrate the failure zone in another way, via reps. Probably easier on the connective tissue, blood pressure, joints, etc., so while still getting a measure of my ability, I do so in a (hopefully) more healthy manner.
Distance is great because imo as long as you are properly hydrated, you can go hard with little worry about real injury, if you don't go too long. That's why I now stick to 5k's, for me a great measurement of ability. I TT them, but I do not compete alongside others because I have no need to, because I am "self-motivating", part of my Category 2 population who actually LIKE going hard, often as hard as possible.
In an amusing twist, I do 2/ instead of racing, despite eschewing all medications. I find them just as satisfying useful for fitness feedback and more convenient.
I am also shall we say very frugal when it comes to both racing and sport expenditures and what goes into my body.
Exactly. Not participating in social races can be fine, depending on your personal situation and your reasoning--and there can be a great many reasons.
re: sprints vs distance
In my many years, I have come to realize that sprinting (actual sprinting) is not a useful measure of general fitness, it is a measure of a very specific type of fitness: fitness for the sole purpose of going 100m as quickly as possible. It is a composite of various specific fitnesses: coordination, power, technique/proprioception, anaerobic alactic/lactic depending on duration, mental focus, etc.
IMO it is not terribly useful as a measure of fitness, if your aim is to keep track of your health as measured by ability.
I still do sprint workouts, but not as an indicator of health, or a measure of the rate of my inevitable decline in ability. I do weights, biking with power measurement, stretching, sometimes rowing, and timed distance runs with level of effort estimation to keep track of my ability, and its decline with time.
If there is any sudden or inexplicable drop in ability, I will consider it a possible indicator of a health condition, and look into it.
My fantasy is that if you push yourself to or near your limit, you will detect diminution sooner, because you will have used up all the normal ability and headroom, so any deficit will have nowhere to hide. This may help detect a health condition sooner rather than later. Again, just my fantasy.
But for me this all works, because I just plain like going hard, no matter if it is on the track, on a bike, in the weightroom, in the pool, whatever.
I like breaking the world into 2 populations, for ease of illustration, in any particular situation. In this one, there are 2 kinds of people in the world:
1) those who enjoy going hard
2) those who do not enjoy going hard.
I am in category (1), and live my life accordingly. Yes I may die from something like a ruptured aneurysm due to over-exertion sooner than a category (2) person might, who never exerts to such a level. I have dialed back some ridiculous and unjustifiable-by-this-logic behaviors on the advice of my wife, so I might have the best of both worlds.
I think the keys are 1) start off at the highest level possible, and 2) dial back BEFORE you diminish naturally. As an example, I used to squat 4 - 4-1/2 plates. I have dialed that back to 3 plates, but do more reps. Instead of going to failure at, say, 2 reps, I now go to failure or almost to failure doing maybe 8 reps.
Could I do more than 3 plates? Yes. I have taken it down to 3, but still penetrate the failure zone in another way, via reps. Probably easier on the connective tissue, blood pressure, joints, etc., so while still getting a measure of my ability, I do so in a (hopefully) more healthy manner.
Distance is great because imo as long as you are properly hydrated, you can go hard with little worry about real injury, if you don't go too long. That's why I now stick to 5k's, for me a great measurement of ability. I TT them, but I do not compete alongside others because I have no need to, because I am "self-motivating", part of my Category 2 population who actually LIKE going hard, often as hard as possible.
End holiday rambling.
When, go I like going hard - I tend to need the HR monitor to slow me down - but personally I need the target of a competition to motivate me. I've been racing for more than 50 years, and don't race more than three or four times a year, but like the structure of training with a specific competition and target in mind.
Covid hurt the adult Boise running scene, although you do see it coming back now. Like Cavorty, it was hard for me to get motivated with the dearth of local events. That, and the closure of area tracks and the loss of the Boise State Indoor Track did quite a bit of damage to masters track. Thanks to pressure largely from masters club Boise Billies and Betties several newly resurfaced tracks are open to the community. An influx of new retirees has bolstered competition in the older masters age groups. As for me, this encouraged me to get in competitive mood and race my first event in 2 1/2 years yesterday.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
Exactly. Not participating in social races can be fine, depending on your personal situation and your reasoning--and there can be a great many reasons.
re: sprints vs distance
In my many years, I have come to realize that sprinting (actual sprinting) is not a useful measure of general fitness, it is a measure of a very specific type of fitness: fitness for the sole purpose of going 100m as quickly as possible. It is a composite of various specific fitnesses: coordination, power, technique/proprioception, anaerobic alactic/lactic depending on duration, mental focus, etc.
IMO it is not terribly useful as a measure of fitness, if your aim is to keep track of your health as measured by ability.
I still do sprint workouts, but not as an indicator of health, or a measure of the rate of my inevitable decline in ability. I do weights, biking with power measurement, stretching, sometimes rowing, and timed distance runs with level of effort estimation to keep track of my ability, and its decline with time.
If there is any sudden or inexplicable drop in ability, I will consider it a possible indicator of a health condition, and look into it.
My fantasy is that if you push yourself to or near your limit, you will detect diminution sooner, because you will have used up all the normal ability and headroom, so any deficit will have nowhere to hide. This may help detect a health condition sooner rather than later. Again, just my fantasy.
But for me this all works, because I just plain like going hard, no matter if it is on the track, on a bike, in the weightroom, in the pool, whatever.
I like breaking the world into 2 populations, for ease of illustration, in any particular situation. In this one, there are 2 kinds of people in the world:
1) those who enjoy going hard
2) those who do not enjoy going hard.
I am in category (1), and live my life accordingly. Yes I may die from something like a ruptured aneurysm due to over-exertion sooner than a category (2) person might, who never exerts to such a level. I have dialed back some ridiculous and unjustifiable-by-this-logic behaviors on the advice of my wife, so I might have the best of both worlds.
I think the keys are 1) start off at the highest level possible, and 2) dial back BEFORE you diminish naturally. As an example, I used to squat 4 - 4-1/2 plates. I have dialed that back to 3 plates, but do more reps. Instead of going to failure at, say, 2 reps, I now go to failure or almost to failure doing maybe 8 reps.
Could I do more than 3 plates? Yes. I have taken it down to 3, but still penetrate the failure zone in another way, via reps. Probably easier on the connective tissue, blood pressure, joints, etc., so while still getting a measure of my ability, I do so in a (hopefully) more healthy manner.
Distance is great because imo as long as you are properly hydrated, you can go hard with little worry about real injury, if you don't go too long. That's why I now stick to 5k's, for me a great measurement of ability. I TT them, but I do not compete alongside others because I have no need to, because I am "self-motivating", part of my Category 2 population who actually LIKE going hard, often as hard as possible.
End holiday rambling.
When, go I like going hard - I tend to need the HR monitor to slow me down - but personally I need the target of a competition to motivate me. I've been racing for more than 50 years, and don't race more than three or four times a year, but like the structure of training with a specific competition and target in mind.
All that amounts to is that you do not like going hard, you "like going hard when competing".
The two are different. In the first case, going hard is its own motivation, and its own reward--which aren't enough for you, therefore you require whatever extrinsic motivation is provided to you by competition against others.
otoh if you are not competing "against" others, but instead against yourself while being "in a race WITH others", that might be different--but then you should ask yourself why you need to be with others to be motivated.
Whatever the specific reason, it is ultimately because you are a social being, and benefit from some experiential quality that arises from being around others.
In one sense, that is a form of weakness, relative to someone who can perform at the same level regardless of whether there are others performing or not. otoh if you require others around to perform your best, then you are using them for that purpose, if you choose to compete among them.
Bottom line is that anybody who enters a race either (depending on one's attitude) against or among others, in effect USES those others to achieve some perceived benefit. Same applies if you are the only competitor in a particular race, at a meet at which there are officials, support, and other competitors in other events.
In a non-aszhole, that is understood, and comes with an attendant feeling and understanding of responsibility, or duty, to those others. The failure to either perceive, or to adequately discharge this duty/responsibility, is how dopers land in the aszhole category.
In my world, that is the very definition of an aszhole.
I am assuming you're clean, and of course there is then nothing whatsoever wrong with competing in masters--in fact, it is laudable in many ways...but, similarly, it is not without flaws, such as contributing to a system which, although it officially bans cheating, nevertheless provides a venue for that cheating to occur, pays at best lip service to maintaining a clean competition, and often times rewards the very activity it claims to prohibit.
In short, masters isn't even trying, and relies on the honor of its participants to define its brand. In my world, that collective level of honor doesn't rise to a high enough level to make me want to take part. For me, it would be a step down--a step I don't need to take, because for me going hard is intrinsic, its own motivation and reward.
Maintaining the highest level of honor is why I will still run with and against kids who I know are clean--and now, they're beating me in the sprints.
I trained and raced for 47 years. It took a lot to finally let it all go. I could never understand taking PED’s at any age but to win age group races at 70?
Let it go. What did you do when it really counted? Were you even around?
I was volunteering at a race the other day and was picking up trash with my trash bag during the awards ceremony and the RD decided to ask the old gentlemen on stage how long they had been at it. Of the top 3, the longest any of the old geezers had been at it was 15 years. The RD was shocked, he thought he’d entertain the crowd with stories these guys would tell about tongue depressors and hand held timers spitting out finishing times on paper.
Old runners, fresh legs.
You have to understand that "TRT" is now the trend with middle-aged men. It's a billion-dollar industry worldwide. There are so many "low-T centers" cropping up in the U.S. that's it's not even funny.
And there's heavy marketing for TRT. One of the local sports-talk radio programs that I listen to advertises a low-T center in town. They have a retire HOF NFL player promoting the this particular business!
Take a look at this ABC report several years on the popularity of TRT. Look at the arrogance of the 57 yr old as he flexes his biceps. Lol
More and more baby boomers taking extra prescription doses of the hormone. For more: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/09/19/testosterone-frequently-as...
I would imagine a good number of competitive masters athletes are using TRT these days They're not going to tell anyone & just keep it their little on secret. As long as they avoid competitions that test, or learn how to beat the test for synthetic testosterone (microdosing like the pros do. Lol), they'll continue to enhance their performances. 😉
All of this supplementation means the older guys are going to be higher responders than young guys who have topped off levels of T and hormones. So between that and the older runners with fresh legs, the age grading charts are pretty lame.
If you really want an edge in master running move to high altitude. Robert lived in Reno 4300. Not high enough to get the full effect. Prob why he turned to dopeing. I live at 7500. Premium altitude another thing. Allot of you have been noting the blood veins enlarged. That happens also when you live at high altitude. The body has to move more blood and oxygen.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
All of this supplementation means the older guys are going to be higher responders than young guys who have topped off levels of T and hormones. So between that and the older runners with fresh legs, the age grading charts are pretty lame.
I would think super shoes have had a greater influence on faster age grading in middle and distance events in recent years than PEDs.
You have to understand that "TRT" is now the trend with middle-aged men. It's a billion-dollar industry worldwide. There are so many "low-T centers" cropping up in the U.S. that's it's not even funny.
And there's heavy marketing for TRT. One of the local sports-talk radio programs that I listen to advertises a low-T center in town. They have a retire HOF NFL player promoting the this particular business!
Take a look at this ABC report several years on the popularity of TRT. Look at the arrogance of the 57 yr old as he flexes his biceps. Lol
I would imagine a good number of competitive masters athletes are using TRT these days They're not going to tell anyone & just keep it their little on secret. As long as they avoid competitions that test, or learn how to beat the test for synthetic testosterone (microdosing like the pros do. Lol), they'll continue to enhance their performances. 😉
Anyone know how 11 years of TRT has affected Chris Running now that he is around 68yo? I see a LinkedIn page so he is still around but I don't see any updates as to whether TRT is still working out for him.
If I found out my opponent in beer league softball was on TRT, I can tell you I wouldn’t care. Few people would.
Do you want to drug test the over-60 men’s church softball league? Probably not. Why? Because it just isn’t worth the time and money. You don’t care that much. Neither does anyone else.
You get my point - there is a level of competition that we don’t drug test, or even rigidly enforce the rules. Because it doesn’t matter, and normal people don’t care.
Look, someday I’ll almost certainly get on TRT. It’s available, so why not? I won’t do it to go up a few places at whatever old folks competition, to win the zero prizes they offer. I’ll do it to feel better, look better, and continue to be active as I age. I don’t want to have to give up all organized competition for life, including beer league softball. It just seems a little legalistic to me.
If I were getting into organized mixed martial arts, I would embrace drug testing at any age and at every level of competition, then TRT use could put people in actual danger,. But 70 year olds jogging a 5k is not that important.
"70 year olds jogging a 5K" is an insult to the older guys out there racing. Their pace might be "jogging" to you but they are going all out. There is nothing more "important" about the times of the younger age groups. Comparing a 5K to beer league softball is also ridiculous. Are you even a runner?
I’m sure they are going all out. But it’s ridiculous to claim that what place a 70 year old finishes in the Turkey Trot is as important as the younger folks. The 70 year old finishes 5th at the local 5k. No one cares, and frankly he shouldn’t either. His time might matter to him, but who cares about his place? Where a young person finishes at the Olympics or Worlds decides legacy, money, and childhood dreams which are sacred things.
Somebody else brought up beer league softball, I was reacting to that.
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