All time greatest 800m Runner

Geelong Runner · 2023-11-14T04:38:17-05:00

I run an 800m Running Facebook page. I have recently decided to rank the best 800m runners of the modern era (1960 onwards) using a subjective list of criteria, and marking each runner against each criteria. I shared the rankings on the page over 10 days, counting down 10-1. Ive copied the article below. Hopefully will generate some comment/debate as it did on the Facebook page. I'm sure there are still some errors/omissions and Id love the feedback. Remember, this is an attempt at a subjective list, and I ran the criteria and tried not to have any preconceived ideas on who would come out on top: It’s the age-old question- who is the greatest 800m runner of all time? Whilst a few names for this title will pop up automatically to any fan of middle distance running, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to bring some objectivity into this debate. I would rank the top 10 athletes of the modern era from 10-1. I did this by establishing a list of criteria and assigning an importance to each of these criteria. For example, times ran and Major Championship results had a larger loading than the other criteria I used. These criteria were: .Times: World Records, how long did the record last, how many times did they run a certain time. 15 points .Major Titles: How the athlete performed in the big two – Olympics and World Championships with more of an emphasis on the Olympics. 15 points .Other Major Honours: This is a level below the big two, and includes area championships, Commonwealth Games, World Junior championships, World University Games, NCAA. 10 points .Longevity: How long did the athlete perform at the highest level? 10 points .Impact on the Event: Did the athlete change the way 800m was run? Are they celebrated by middle distance fans? 10 points .Global Impact: Are they known beyond the niche middle distance fraternity? 5 points .Performance in other events: I rated this criterion lower as it is a purely 800m ranking list, not a middle distance list. 5 points. I also discounted champion 800m runners before the 60’s , so in effect this is a rankings list for the modern era. I did this for several reasons: ·The competition pool was not as deep before the .60’s, which saw the emergence of the East Africans. ·Due to the amateur nature of the sport, most athletes did not have the longevity in the sport as opportunities were extremely limited. Athletes had to get a job to support their families. ·Opportunities to compete in championships outside the Olympics were more limited. ·It is difficult to compare times between eras, due to improved track conditions, better footwear etc. When the world record hit the 1.44’s I considered this to be the cut off time for inclusion. ·There is less information about these athletes to be found, making it harder to compare to athletes from the modern era, and to assess their impact across the sport and wider community. Because of this cut off, apologies are extended to Mel Sheppard, Douglas Lowe, Mal Whitfield, Rudolf Harbig and Arthur Wint, who given different circumstances would more than likely have been included. After completing this analysis, I could see the cream rising to the top, with only a couple of minor deviations from the way I would have ranked the top 4 initially. However, it was at the lower level where the surprises occurred. For example, I was surprised with Yuri Borzakovskiy’s results and consistency over many years, when I had not previously considered him to be a top 10 contender. So without further ado, here’s the list from 1 to 16. 1. DAVID RUDISHA Times: 15/15: Has broken the world record three times, including Winning and breaking the World Record in the 2012 Olympic final, undoubtedly the greatest 800m race of all time. Has held the world record now for 13 years Major Titles 15/15: Double Olympic Champion, Double World Champion Other Major Honours 10/10: 2x African Champion, 2xDiamond League final winner, 1x World Cup winner, 1x World Athletics Final winner, 1x World Junior Champion. Longevity 10/10: Ran 1.44 or faster 11 years in a row, One of only 4 double Olympic Champions. Impact on the event 9/10: Front running a world record in the Olympics changed the way people thought about the event. Is regarded by most as the best of all time. Global Impact: 4/5: Olympic Gold bought Rudisha’s talents to the world. Almost every track fan would have Rudisha amongst their favourites Performance in other Events: 2.5/5. Has run a hand timed 45.2 but no championships in any other event , and only a 2.19 1k and no 1500m recorded. #2 all time 600m Overall: 65.5/70 Rudisha is the complete performer over 800m. The pure 800m specialist, Rudisha is the current world record holder and won everything that was available for him to won. 2.PETER SNELL Times : 15/15 Broke the world record on grass, in a time that is still the NZ record 61 years later. WR over 800m, 880 yds, 1000m Major Titles 15/15: One of only 4 double Olympic Champions over 800m. Other Major Honours: 8/10: Won the Commonwealth games 800m in 1962 in the only event that was available to him in that era. Longevity/Consistency: 9/10: Double Olympic Champion in an era when most runners retired early. Impact on the event: 9/10: Widely regarded as one of the greatest. His WR on grass is still spoken about in hushed terms. Global Impact: 4/5 Athletics was very popular across the globe in that era, and Snell's Olympic wins gave him a lot of attention. Performance in other events: 5/5: 1500m Olympic and Comonwealth Games Champion. WR holder over 1000m , Mile, 4xMile. Summary: 65/70 Snell rightfully takes his place in the Pantheon of legendary 800m runners. 3. SEBASTIAN COE Times 15/15: Two World Records outdoors and two indoors, with the last World Record making Coe the fastest person over 800m by nearly 2 seconds at the time. His 1.41.73 stood for 16 years Major titles: 12/15: No golds to show for his efforts, but 2 Olympic Silvers is nothing to be sneezed at. Other Major Honours: 7/10: 1x European Champion1 gold, 1 silver 1 bronze European Championships, 1 World Cup. Coes trophy cabinet is a little threadbare over 800m. Longevity/Consistency: 10/10: Medalling in the 1978 European Championships and still running 800’s at the 1990 Commonwealth Games. Ran 1.44 or better 12 times in 14 years Impact on the Event: 10/10: In the 80’s no one was bigger than Coe. Global Impact 5/5: The world stopped for the Coe/Ovett clash in Moscow in 1980. Coes impact continues as president of World Athletics. Performance in other events 5/5: Double Olympic Champion over 1500m, multiple world record holder over 1000m, 1500m, mile. Even ran for GB in the 400m Summary: 64/70 With his style and silky-smooth stride, Coe is almost everyone’s favourite 800m runner. One of 3 in the top 10 to not win an Olympic Gold over 800m 4. WILSON KIPKETER: Times 15/15: Broke the outdoor WR twice and equalled it once. Smashed the World Indoor Record twice on one weekend. Major Titles 14/15: 3 World Titles, but the Olympic title eluded him, with a silver and bronze. Other Major Honours: 8/10: World indoor gold, 2x World Indoor Silver, Gold European Championships. Longevity/Consistency: 10/10: Ran 1.43 or faster 10 year in a row, Ran 3 World Championships and 3 European Championships. Impact on the Event: 8/10: Renowned as a great 800m runner but maybe not given the recognition he deserved. Global Impact 3/5: Relatively unknown outside of middle-distance aficionados. Performance in Other Events: 3/5 World Indoor 1000m Record, has run a sub 4-minute mile, but not much else, including no recorded 400 or 1500m time in World Athletics. Overall: 63/70 Extremely underrated, mostly due to his lack of a gold medal in the Olympics. However, 3 World Titles and 4 World Records (indoors and out)places him amongst the greatest. One of 3 in the top 10 to not win an Olympic Gold over 800m. 5.ALBERTO JUANTORENA Times: 15/15 Two World Records Major Titles: 14/15 Olympic Champion 1976. Other Major Honours 8/10: 1x World Cup winner, 2x World University Games winner. 1x Pan American Games Silver. Won what was available to him in the era. Longevity/Consistency: 8/10: Ran 1.45 or better 6 years in a row. Two Olympic finals. Impact on the Event: 9/10: Changed the way people saw the typical 800m runner – a big powerful guy fast enough to win the Olympic 400m title. Global impact: 2.5/5: Coming from Cuba, was relatively unknown outside of athletics. Performance in Other Events 5/5: Olympic 400m Champion Overall :61.5/70 Big guys can win Olympic 800m gold (and back up in the 400m for good measure) 6. JOAQUIM CRUZ Times: 14.5/15: Missed the WR by 0.04. At one stage he had the 2nd, 4th , 5th and 5th fastest times in history. Major Titles: 14/15 : 1x Olympic Gold, 1x Olympic silver, 1x World Championship Bronze. Other Major Honours: 6/10: NCAA Champion, Pan American Champion Longevity/Consistency: 9/10: Ran 1.46 or better 10 years in a row. Impact on the Event: 8/10: Recognised as one of the greatest and most consistent. Global Impact : 3.5/5 Relatively unknown outside of athletics circles. Olympic Semi Finalist over 1500m. Performance in other events: 3.5/5: 1x Pan American Champion over 1500m, PB 3.34.Olympic Semi Finallist Overall: 58.5/70 8. YURI BORZAKOVSKIY Times: 12/15: Multiple sub 1.43 times. Major Titles: 14/15: 1x Olympic Gold, 2 World Championship Silver, 2 World Championship Bronze. Other Major Honours: 10/10 1x World indoor Championships gold,1x Silver, 1x European Championships Gold, 2x European Indoor Championships Gold. Longevity/Consistency 10/10: Ran 1.45 or better 14 years in a row. Impact on the event: 6/10: A fantastic runner , very consistent. I was surprised at how much he had actually won. Global Impact 1/5: Little known outside of middle-distance fans. Performance in other events: 3.5/5: Ran 45.9 and competed internationally for the Soviet Union in 400m and 4x400m. 3.40 1500m. Overall: 56.5/70 A dark horse in these rankings, I was very surprised at his continued excellence over many years 8 STEVE OVETT. Times: 10/15: Ovetts times do not reflect what he was capable of. Major Titles: 13.5/15 Olympic Champion 1980, 3 Olympic Finals over 800m. Other Major Honours: 6/10: 2x European Silvers, 1x European Junior Champion. Longevity/Consistency: 8/10: Ran 1.45 or better 8 years out of 10. 3 consecutive Olympic Finals. Impact on the Event: 8/10 Won the Olympic title in his non preferred event. Global Impact :4.5/5 Coe/Ovett captured the worlds imagination in the 80’s and helped bring in the era of professional athletes. Performance in Other Events : 4.5/5. Multiple World Records over distances from 1500m to 2 mile. Championship medals over 1500m ,5000m , but Olympic gold over his main event eluded him. Summary: 55.5/70 Ovett would surely have been ranked higher if his times reflected his talent 9. EMMANUEL KORIR Times 13.5/15: Korir is the 6th best performer of all time over 800m. Major Titles: 14.5/15. 1x Olympic Champion, 1x world Champion. Other Honours 8/10: 1x World Cup winner, 1x NCAA Champion, 3x Diamond League Final Winner. Longevity /Consistency: 6/10 Has run 1.43 or better 5 seasons in a row. Most recent season cost him a higher ranking. Impact on the event 5.5/10 Is compiling an impressive resume and could become one of the greats. Global Impact: 1/5: Unknown outside of running community. Performance In Other Events: 3.5/5: World Championship finalist over 400m, 44.21 PB Overall: 52/70 Korir is fast establishing himself as one of the greats and could move up this list significantly if he continues the same trajectory over the next few years if he can recapture his 2021/2022 form. 10. ANDRE BUCHER: Times: 13.5/15 PB of 1.42.55 Major Titles: 12.5/15 1 World Championship. Other Major Honours: 8/10 2 Euro Championship silvers, 1 world Indoor championship Bronze Longevity/consistency: 9/10 Ran sub 1.46 10 years out of 11 Impact on the event: 5/10 Global impact: 1/5 Performance in other events:. 2.5/5 46.32, 3.38. No major championships Overall 51.5/70 Other rankings #16 Billy Konchellah 47/70 #15 Dave Wottle 47.5/70 #14 Paul Ereng 48/70 #13 Mbulaeni Mulaudzi 48.5/70 #12 Ralph Doubell 50/70 #11 Vebjorn Rodal 50.5/70

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2 years ago 11/28/2023 12:45pm EST

re: Deanouk

I might add in respect of Snell's 800/880 records on grass at Lancaster Park in '62 that the pacemaker in the race, Barry Robinson, recalled that there had been heavy rain on the track the previous day and on the morning of the race. He felt that had the race been on a European all-weather track Snell's times would have been considerably faster. After the race he said as much to Snell, who years later conceded, "I think you were correct".

With modern tracks and "super-shoes" it is intriguing to imagine what Snell might have run.

2 years ago 11/29/2023 5:59am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
I might add in respect of Snell's 800/880 records on grass at Lancaster Park in '62 that the pacemaker in the race, Barry Robinson, recalled that there had been heavy rain on the track the previous day and on the morning of the race. He felt that had the race been on a European all-weather track Snell's times would have been considerably faster. After the race he said as much to Snell, who years later conceded, "I think you were correct".
With modern tracks and "super-shoes" it is intriguing to imagine what Snell might have run.

For sure close to the current WR, which in his thinking normally is impossible.

He will deny.

He denies that it is possible to come close to a current WR clean.

He also denies that it is not possible to come close to a current WR clean.

He has done so several times.

2 years ago 11/29/2023 6:17am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
army just too stupid wrote:
It's exactly your argument: imagine a top performance was achieved clean, what could the athlete achieve while being doped? Since this sounds absurd, so he/she definitely must be doped.
This was your argument, but I have no problem to believe you don't understand your own reasoning.
You are obsessed with what I think. Post after post. Do you have any other purpose in life?

Not about what you think at all, but what you have written.

That's the purpose of human communication.

Someone says/writes something - others reply to it.

I have used exactly your argument which you used for Kip Keino (imagine his extremely good performance was clean...) for other runners. You don't like it, because it just shows how utterly inconsistent all of your thinking/arguing really is.

What if Snell was clean as he ran 1:44.3 62 years ago on a wet grass track with old leather spikes?

What if Coe was clean as he ran 1:41.73 42 yeras ago? 1:39.0 while doped on a current track?

What if Elliott was clean as he ran 3:35.6 63 years ago?

2 years ago 11/30/2023 7:32am EST

re: army just too stupid

army just too stupid wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I might add in respect of Snell's 800/880 records on grass at Lancaster Park in '62 that the pacemaker in the race, Barry Robinson, recalled that there had been heavy rain on the track the previous day and on the morning of the race. He felt that had the race been on a European all-weather track Snell's times would have been considerably faster. After the race he said as much to Snell, who years later conceded, "I think you were correct".
With modern tracks and "super-shoes" it is intriguing to imagine what Snell might have run.
For sure close to the current WR, which in his thinking normally is impossible.
He will deny.
He denies that it is possible to come close to a current WR clean.
He also denies that it is not possible to come close to a current WR clean.
He has done so several times.

You can't follow what I have said. Have you anything to say about the thread subject?

2 years ago 11/30/2023 7:36am EST

re: army just too stupid

army just too stupid wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You are obsessed with what I think. Post after post. Do you have any other purpose in life?
Not about what you think at all, but what you have written.
That's the purpose of human communication.
Someone says/writes something - others reply to it.
I have used exactly your argument which you used for Kip Keino (imagine his extremely good performance was clean...) for other runners. You don't like it, because it just shows how utterly inconsistent all of your thinking/arguing really is.
What if Snell was clean as he ran 1:44.3 62 years ago on a wet grass track with old leather spikes?
What if Coe was clean as he ran 1:41.73 42 yeras ago? 1:39.0 while doped on a current track?
What if Elliott was clean as he ran 3:35.6 63 years ago?

Why don't you offer your own opinions on that instead of obsessively stalking me for mine? If I have something to say about it I will. But I am not interested in debating with a member of the lumpen-proletariat. Make your own case.

2 years ago 11/30/2023 5:21pm EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
army just too stupid wrote:
Not about what you think at all, but what you have written.
That's the purpose of human communication.
Someone says/writes something - others reply to it.
I have used exactly your argument which you used for Kip Keino (imagine his extremely good performance was clean...) for other runners. You don't like it, because it just shows how utterly inconsistent all of your thinking/arguing really is.
What if Snell was clean as he ran 1:44.3 62 years ago on a wet grass track with old leather spikes?
What if Coe was clean as he ran 1:41.73 42 yeras ago? 1:39.0 while doped on a current track?
What if Elliott was clean as he ran 3:35.6 63 years ago?
Why don't you offer your own opinions on that instead of obsessively stalking me for mine? If I have something to say about it I will. But I am not interested in debating with a member of the lumpen-proletariat. Make your own case.

Not talking about "opinions" at all.

Just pointing on all your inconsistent nonsense that you spread.

I used exactly YOUR ARGUMENT for Keino (imagine he was clean at his best performance... ) for other great runners.

For this you start attacking and so on. Because you are not interested in the truth, but just to stay "correct".

So, what if Coe was clean, when he ran 1:41.73 42 years ago? With inferior shoes and on a inferior track than current runners? While he lost 2 tenths of a second while passing Konchellah.
What could he have run while doped on current tracks with modern shoes with perfect pacemaking? Definitely sub 1:40. Maybe close to 1:39?

Armstrong: You can't come close to a current WR without doping.

Also Armstrong: I think Coe was clean.

Both are from you. A fact.

2 years ago 12/01/2023 7:52am EST

re: army just too stupid

army just too stupid wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Why don't you offer your own opinions on that instead of obsessively stalking me for mine? If I have something to say about it I will. But I am not interested in debating with a member of the lumpen-proletariat. Make your own case.
Not talking about "opinions" at all.
Just pointing on all your inconsistent nonsense that you spread.
I used exactly YOUR ARGUMENT for Keino (imagine he was clean at his best performance... ) for other great runners.
For this you start attacking and so on. Because you are not interested in the truth, but just to stay "correct".
So, what if Coe was clean, when he ran 1:41.73 42 years ago? With inferior shoes and on a inferior track than current runners? While he lost 2 tenths of a second while passing Konchellah.
What could he have run while doped on current tracks with modern shoes with perfect pacemaking? Definitely sub 1:40. Maybe close to 1:39?
Armstrong: You can't come close to a current WR without doping.
Also Armstrong: I think Coe was clean.
Both are from you. A fact.

As I said, make your own argument about Coe or Keino rather than trying to tell me what mine is. If you could get past your obsession with me you might even address the thread subject - but I doubt it.

2 years ago 12/01/2023 8:05am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
army just too stupid wrote:
Not talking about "opinions" at all.
Just pointing on all your inconsistent nonsense that you spread.
I used exactly YOUR ARGUMENT for Keino (imagine he was clean at his best performance... ) for other great runners.
For this you start attacking and so on. Because you are not interested in the truth, but just to stay "correct".
So, what if Coe was clean, when he ran 1:41.73 42 years ago? With inferior shoes and on a inferior track than current runners? While he lost 2 tenths of a second while passing Konchellah.
What could he have run while doped on current tracks with modern shoes with perfect pacemaking? Definitely sub 1:40. Maybe close to 1:39?
Armstrong: You can't come close to a current WR without doping.
Also Armstrong: I think Coe was clean.
Both are from you. A fact.
As I said, make your own argument about Coe or Keino rather than trying to tell me what mine is. If you could get past your obsession with me you might even address the thread subject - but I doubt it.

You are the only person obsessed with yourself 😂😂

2 years ago 12/02/2023 3:20am EST

re: 7777

7777 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
As I said, make your own argument about Coe or Keino rather than trying to tell me what mine is. If you could get past your obsession with me you might even address the thread subject - but I doubt it.
You are the only person obsessed with yourself 😂😂

No, I'm not - as you show yet again. There are a bunch of you who follow me around, yapping at everything I post.

2 years ago 12/02/2023 3:41am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
7777 wrote:
You are the only person obsessed with yourself 😂😂
No, I'm not - as you show yet again. There are a bunch of you who follow me around, yapping at everything I post.

You are delusional. I hadn't been here in days. And you are the one yapping at everything rekrunner posts, like the good lapdog you are 😂😂

2 years ago 12/02/2023 8:32am EST

re: 7777

7777 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, I'm not - as you show yet again. There are a bunch of you who follow me around, yapping at everything I post.
You are delusional. I hadn't been here in days. And you are the one yapping at everything rekrunner posts, like the good lapdog you are 😂😂

You've haven't been here in days! Days - not weeks or even years! Such forbearance. How do you manage?

But then your comment about my responding rekrunner is an admission you're doing the same with me. Another dumb whataboutism.

2 years ago 12/03/2023 3:06am EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
7777 wrote:
You are delusional. I hadn't been here in days. And you are the one yapping at everything rekrunner posts, like the good lapdog you are 😂😂
You've haven't been here in days! Days - not weeks or even years! Such forbearance. How do you manage?

It's easy. I run, I coach, I have a loving family, friends, a garden; you know, all the things you don't have or do. And that's why you spend your days here 😊

2 years ago 12/03/2023 12:35pm EST

re: 7777

7777 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You've haven't been here in days! Days - not weeks or even years! Such forbearance. How do you manage?
It's easy. I run, I coach, I have a loving family, friends, a garden; you know, all the things you don't have or do. And that's why you spend your days here 😊

And so do you - or you wouldn't read my posts. But they always get your attention. You can't ignore them. Your family must be getting worried.

2 years ago 12/03/2023 2:58pm EST

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
7777 wrote:
It's easy. I run, I coach, I have a loving family, friends, a garden; you know, all the things you don't have or do. And that's why you spend your days here 😊
And so do you - or you wouldn't read my posts. But they always get your attention. You can't ignore them. Your family must be getting worried.

Hahahaha 😂 You wish! You are a small source of entertainment here. We laugh at your rants, we laugh at you. Our latest favourite is you calling yourself a cheerful old man! 🤣🤣🤣

2 years ago 12/03/2023 4:45pm EST

re: Deanouk

How do we factor in that the track Snell ran the record on wasn't a regular shape? Can we be 100% certain it was 440 yards a lap? It's hard to say with 100% certainty that a non premiant, non regular shaped track with no rail, was 100% accurate back in 1962.

So let's just leave his 1:44.3 as it is, 1:44.3 - still an amazing run but no quicker than that

2 years ago 12/03/2023 5:26pm EST

re: JRinaldi

PS - I'm no Snell, but my pb is 1:47.60 and I've run 1:48.03 on a grass track, so I don't think good grass tracks are that much slower.

2 years ago 12/04/2023 3:51am EST

re: JRinaldi

JRinaldi wrote:
How do we factor in that the track Snell ran the record on wasn't a regular shape? Can we be 100% certain it was 440 yards a lap? It's hard to say with 100% certainty that a non premiant, non regular shaped track with no rail, was 100% accurate back in 1962.
So let's just leave his 1:44.3 as it is, 1:44.3 - still an amazing run but no quicker than that

An irregular track could also be long. So, let's say that Snell might have ran 1:39.9, Jack!

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