I'll even go one step further for mildrunmaster: the answer is six tests so far this year.
Athlete Name Shelby Houlihan Sample Count 6 Sport Track and Field
Great stats. 6 tests (by USADA only, including in-competition, lol) until July 13. Her USADA testing history is quite telling too: they knew what she was up too since at least 2019. For reference I am adding Frerichs (same club, same age also with ARs, and globally more successful) in parenthesis:
If the race is not sanctioned by USATF (most road races are not), then she can compete. I agree that it is a joke and that there are no "contamination" rules being enforced.
contamination rules? You want a bunch of regular people banned? GFYS
When the effectiveness of testing is being debated, she tested positive from a test in December, 2020. So from the time she started really drawing attention in 2018 it took 60 tests in the three year period to finally catch her.
For the sake of argument, let's say she doped back then. You really think that she'd continue doping just to win a road race 3 years later?
No, not to win prize money in a small local race. I do think that any banned doper (who wants to come back in shape) will have to keep doping during the ban, to maintain their doped ABP levels and to be able to sustain their training load. Of course they will have to respect the detection limits better now (or not open the door when glowing).
Yes, there are people who believe she doped. Those people would be correct based on all the evidence.
But there is also a lot of unfounded support. Look at some of the people on this board. "Steady Progression" keeps trying to make a case that Shelby, a 4:09/15:49 runner coming out of college, progressed naturally to 3:54(!!!!)/14:23(!!!!!!!!!!!). That is obviously outrageous but they seem hell bent on defending her.
The only thing Shelby has going for her is that she is white and American. There is no evidence from the case to suggest her innocence.
Since you want to be clear, let me clarify that my case isn't that Shelby was or wasn't on drugs. My position is that her progression was steady and therefore should not be the reason to believe she was on drugs. A positive drug test is a very good reason to believe she was on drugs, but not her progression. Shelby got incrementally, steadily better each and every year from college on to the year she was suspended. From 2013 to 2019, she basically improved 3 seconds per year in the 1500. No other runner mentioned in this thread has progressed as steadily as she did in that event.
I will add that your characterization of her as a 15:49 runner in college overlooks the important context that 1) she focused on the 800 and 1500 while at ASU, and 2) she never ran a fast, rabbited 5000 in college. During her entire time at ASU, she only ran a total of five 5000 races, and every single one of them was a championship race:
2013 (sophomore): finished second in the Pac 12 championship final 2014 (junior): won the Pac 12 championship 2015 (senior): won the Pac 12 championship again, ran a regional qualifying race, and then finished 7th in the NCAA final in that aforementioned 15:49
As you see, she never ran one of those fast 5000 races at Stanford. Never got to tuck in behind pros and be pulled to a fast time. Only championship races.
Here's one other important contextual note about that 15:49 she ran in the NCAA final: That race came about 100 minutes after she competed in the 1500 final! A relevant fact, don't you think? Fair to say she was capable of running a lot faster than 15:49 in college if she prioritized that event and got to run in a rabbited, time trial on fresh legs.
I don't think you understand what a steady progression means.
Nothing about the progression of any of those runners is suspicious and you'd be a fool to think that Shelby's isn't suspicious as all get out.
Simpson only dropped 11 seconds when she switched from the steeple to the 1500. She ran an elite time and did tons of work to maintain it.
Coburn saw a huge improvement when she turned pro which is natural. Then she saw steady gains until she hit her peak in 2017.
Maclean is truly a fresh legged-talent, not what Shelby pretends to be. Again she made that gain in her first year out of the NCAA.
I'm glad you started Hiltz in high school. That's cute. anyways not suspicious.
Shelby saw superhuman growth in her fourth (4th) year as a pro. Where did that come from? She'd been training hard since high school, running 65+ miles a week in college. Then came to Jerry where she did well and improved, but 2018 she found all this new improvement in her legs that wasn't there before.
She made Jenny look silly at Pre and USAs'. The world silver medalist and this rando came out of nowhere to destroy her. Just smelt so so bad.
I'm thankful this doper was caught. You should be too. Shelby made the sport so much worse and has done permanent damage to it. She has records that are dirty and no one can touch.
Shelby was primarily a 400m runner for most of her high school career she added the 800 later. She was then an 800m runner for most of her college career adding the 1500 later. 65 miles a week you must be smoking crack I doubt she ran more than 40-45 in college. She was initially a lower mileage runner for jerry too as she had a couple injury scares. She was later able to move up to running big mileage and then you see her huge improvements.
Nothing about the progression of any of those runners is suspicious and you'd be a fool to think that Shelby's isn't suspicious as all get out.
Simpson only dropped 11 seconds when she switched from the steeple to the 1500. She ran an elite time and did tons of work to maintain it.
Coburn saw a huge improvement when she turned pro which is natural. Then she saw steady gains until she hit her peak in 2017.
Maclean is truly a fresh legged-talent, not what Shelby pretends to be. Again she made that gain in her first year out of the NCAA.
I'm glad you started Hiltz in high school. That's cute. anyways not suspicious.
Shelby saw superhuman growth in her fourth (4th) year as a pro. Where did that come from? She'd been training hard since high school, running 65+ miles a week in college. Then came to Jerry where she did well and improved, but 2018 she found all this new improvement in her legs that wasn't there before.
She made Jenny look silly at Pre and USAs'. The world silver medalist and this rando came out of nowhere to destroy her. Just smelt so so bad.
I'm thankful this doper was caught. You should be too. Shelby made the sport so much worse and has done permanent damage to it. She has records that are dirty and no one can touch.
Shelby was primarily a 400m runner for most of her high school career she added the 800 later. She was then an 800m runner for most of her college career adding the 1500 later. 65 miles a week you must be smoking crack I doubt she ran more than 40-45 in college. She was initially a lower mileage runner for jerry too as she had a couple injury scares. She was later able to move up to running big mileage and then you see her huge improvements.
"Smoking crack!" oh really? I come with receipts my friend. read it and weep.
Fresh off a long track season highlighted by an NCAA 1500m title and a 2:01.12 800m personal best, the Arizona State senior has her sights set on a national cross country title this fall.
RT: What do you expect your weekly mileage get up to this fall? SH: I’m still building my mileage back up and I think I’ll probably hit about 70. Last year I got up to a high of around 60 and averaged 55. So I’ll probably average 60 to 65 this season and I think that will help a lot. I’m really excited to see how much the extra mileage will help.
Shelby was primarily a 400m runner for most of her high school career she added the 800 later. She was then an 800m runner for most of her college career adding the 1500 later. 65 miles a week you must be smoking crack I doubt she ran more than 40-45 in college. She was initially a lower mileage runner for jerry too as she had a couple injury scares. She was later able to move up to running big mileage and then you see her huge improvements.
"Smoking crack!" oh really? I come with receipts my friend. read it and weep.
RT: What do you expect your weekly mileage get up to this fall? SH: I’m still building my mileage back up and I think I’ll probably hit about 70. Last year I got up to a high of around 60 and averaged 55. So I’ll probably average 60 to 65 this season and I think that will help a lot. I’m really excited to see how much the extra mileage will help.
Let's unpack the rest of this.
"Shelby was a 400m runner"--she started running when she was five, and she ran four years of XC. She was not a 400 meter runner she was a middle distance runner running 400-1500. MOST high school XC programs are low mileage running about 30 miles a week. It's only the powerhouses who do crazy schedules. If you want undertrained in high school look at Courtney Frerichs who did the triple jump in track and played gymnastics/soccer. Look at Emma Coburn who supplemented volleyball and basketball with her 10-20 mile a week grueling XC and track schedule. Look at Heather MacLean who ran 3 years of track and just one year of XC in high school. Shelby was probably not an overtrained runner. But she was probably no different than most of her contemporaries in terms of mileage. Emily Infeld specialized in the 800 in high school. Emma Coburn actually did too.
College
Please see the article above where she talks about wanting to hit 70 miles in her senior year of college. She went to Arizona State University. That's no small feat. The fact that she was pedaling around the undertrained myth for as long as she has is absurd.
"She was later able to move up to big mileage"
Isn't it funny how that magically happens? Oh by the way dope and nandrolone help with recovery and injury prevention, must be a coincidence.
additionally, there are 2 problems with what this Karen is tying to do: #1 Most road races are outside the jurisdiction of the USATF, and do you even know the actual rules of whatever organization this is? #2 Do you have any actual evidence of CURRENT doping violations? Any at all? Sorry, 2 years ago doesn't cut it. If you don't, I hope she sues you into oblivion for defamation/libel. Where someone's livelihood is concerned, you can't just make up crap at your leisure because you don't like someone.
In general, I would suggest spending some money on a therapist so that you don't have to go around polluting environments with decent people.
The thing that gets me is Shelby is always prattling on about her character.
But since her ban she has disregarded the feelings of others entirely acting entitled and spoiled. She continued training with BTC so much that it made a teammate of hers uncomfortable and leave. Didn't she consider the possibility that this could happen? And she continues to show up at races when it makes her competitors uncomfortable. But it's just shelby's world and we all have to step aside.
The way certain fans of this sport delude themselves and grasp at the most nebulous of straws to avoid acknowledging doping is really remarkable. She had an extraordinary post-college progression, ran times that only full-fledged dopers could run, AND tested positive and people are still peddling nonsense about her being undertrained and being some magic, latent running talent. The woman actively cheated her competitors and did not care at all.
Or take another unnamed example. This athlete did not even run NCAA, graduated college with a life time mile best of 4:58 despite focusing on running full time her senior year, then moves to Oregon with her husband to join a pro training group and in two short years cuts about 40 seconds from her mile time and makes a WT in the 1500m. And the people here were like, "makes sense."
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
It's not too hard to get people here to accept the things you list as proof of doping if the athlete involved is not American. It's human nature. About the only group of Major League Baseball fans who don't almost universally think Barry Bonds cheated are San Francisco Giant fans. If Houlihan was a Kenyan people here would want her drawn and quartered.
Houlihan is American and people here want her drawn and quartered.
Nowhere near as many as would want it if she were a Kenyan. And you'd have very few people claiming to believe her.
Every woman who has ever broken 4:05 in the 1500 is a doper. And the ones who did it before age 22 are massive dopers.
This is a troll post but it's not 4:05 it's sub 3:55 and sub 14:30 where things start to feel weird and when you look at the list of runners who ran those times, you don't get a great feeling.
Houlihan is American and people here want her drawn and quartered.
Nowhere near as many as would want it if she were a Kenyan. And you'd have very few people claiming to believe her.
We must not be reading the same cross-section of posts. I would say as many, if not more. Houlihan seems to draw as much scorn as Kenyans like Jeptoo and Kiprop, even for simple acts like posting on Instagram. Similarly, Houlihan has very few people claiming to believe her. I don't see her getting any passes from "people here" for being a white American girl.
The way certain fans of this sport delude themselves and grasp at the most nebulous of straws to avoid acknowledging doping is really remarkable. She had an extraordinary post-college progression, ran times that only full-fledged dopers could run, AND tested positive and people are still peddling nonsense about her being undertrained and being some magic, latent running talent. The woman actively cheated her competitors and did not care at all.
Or take another unnamed example. This athlete did not even run NCAA, graduated college with a life time mile best of 4:58 despite focusing on running full time her senior year, then moves to Oregon with her husband to join a pro training group and in two short years cuts about 40 seconds from her mile time and makes a WT in the 1500m. And the people here were like, "makes sense."
