I can give you examples of athletes that were in the lead, but then gave up sticks in the final seconds. Look no further than that ‘Barringer melt-down race’, in which leader Susan Kuijken gave up two sticks in the final seconds.
Fortunately for McCabe and Valby, risking placement, at the expense of the team, is one less stressor they will face in this race.
yup - and did she try to win? Yes. What did she give up? 2 spots. So your alternative was for her to NOT try to win...and to give up the 2 spots voluntarily?? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, obviously real-time conditions dictate, since it could be much more than two sticks at risk in this race tomorrow, especially if it is not as fast as others (except me) have been projecting.
In Orton’s case, when she decided to pull it back at the 17:30min mark, there were 7-8 runners still in the lead pack. However, BYU coach Ed Eyestone repeatedly stresses, “Win your race!”
So I ask you, given the scenario that day, at that moment, was ‘Orton’s race’ to continue on heroically going for the individual title, or to instead, give up as few sticks as possible?
3) please reference a race where an elite runner with the chance of winning a National Championship decided in the last km that they were NOT going to try and win.
I just did with Orton; she was the leader at the 17min mark with a pack of 8 around her.
3) please reference a race where an elite runner with the chance of winning a National Championship decided in the last km that they were NOT going to try and win.
I just did with Orton; she was the leader at the 17min mark with a pack of 8 around her.
so your premise is that Orton was leading, decided the team race was more important than trying to win, and slowed down so as not to lose too much and gave up 17 spots voluntarily?
Not that Orton (one of the best NCAA XC runners of the last 10years) who was coming back from injury, gave it everything she had to try and win; hit the wall, and finished the race as best she could?
Because whether or not she hit the wall, she still had to “win her race”. The focus and intentions change with real-time conditions. Which is my point. For example, with 3mins to go, grinding thru the hills, with another big hill grind to go, and eight in contention, is Tuohy’s first objective to get that individual title at all costs, even if she blows up with some of the other eight that are going to blow up, while forgetting about the team? Or does she need to be sizing up the situation, and make a team decision, and realize that for the team’s best interest, at that point, she is not racing Valby or McCabe.
Again, do you think anyone could know exactly how much strength they and their competitors have left in the last 3 min/1k to know how much one should relax to give up only a few places (but not too many) or rather risk going for the win? Have you ever run competitively? I think this just impossible, especially if one is in the late stage of a ca. 20 min race and especially in Xcountry that is usually more tiring (even on the well-kept US courses, not the muddy trenches of some European races)
Hindsight is 20/20 but on the spot one has to keep going/trying. At least at such a late stage. It's a different thing if someone tries to running away midrace, then it can be rational not to follow.
They have no more desire to win than anyone else. They are more talented. Every basketball and football team has a manager who is more dedicated than the players.
I think the main point is that tactics is usually overrated. There are some exceptions in track races (esp. 800/1500m) but in a 6km Xcountry superior fitness/shape will win 19/20 unless someone makes terrible blunders, such as suicidal early pace or not using superior fitness to enforce an honest pace. But in such huge fields there will always be someone forcing at least decent pace, it's not like some sit and kick 1500 races.
Again, do you think anyone could know exactly how much strength they and their competitors have left in the last 3 min/1k to know how much one should relax to give up only a few places (but not too many) or rather risk going for the win? Have you ever run competitively? I think this just impossible, especially if one is in the late stage of a ca. 20 min race and especially in Xcountry that is usually more tiring (even on the well-kept US courses, not the muddy trenches of some European races)
Hindsight is 20/20 but on the spot one has to keep going/trying. At least at such a late stage. It's a different thing if someone tries to running away midrace, then it can be rational not to follow.
lol...I completely agree....I hit the wall many times; never knew I was going to hit the wall until 'surprise' there it is...
I just did with Orton; she was the leader at the 17min mark with a pack of 8 around her.
so your premise is that Orton was leading, decided the team race was more important than trying to win, and slowed down so as not to lose too much and gave up 17 spots voluntarily?
Not that Orton (one of the best NCAA XC runners of the last 10years) who was coming back from injury, gave it everything she had to try and win; hit the wall, and finished the race as best she could?
Considering how Valby collapsed in the business end of last year’s Nats
Valby didn't collapse. She was tripped by Orton and fell back but still finished less than 20 seconds behind Mercy Chelangat who's the top returner. Considering Valby had hardly been training that was quite a good finish for her. Chelangat also appears in much better condition now than she was a year ago.
Considering how Valby collapsed in the business end of last year’s Nats
Valby didn't collapse. She was tripped by Orton and fell back but still finished less than 20 seconds behind Mercy Chelangat who's the top returner. Considering Valby had hardly been training that was quite a good finish for her. Chelangat also appears in much better condition now than she was a year ago.
I saw the contact at about 4K which caused her to stumble (but not go down, and caused Steelman to have to react). Some said she was actually tripped a little later and went down. Is that correct?
Considering how Valby collapsed in the business end of last year’s Nats
Valby didn't collapse. She was tripped by Orton and fell back but still finished less than 20 seconds behind Mercy Chelangat who's the top returner. Considering Valby had hardly been training that was quite a good finish for her. Chelangat also appears in much better condition now than she was a year ago.
no ... we all saw the video. she went out too hard. after tripping herself, she continued to run with the front for quite some time and bonked hard at around 4k. bonking is pretty common, no shame in it.
this is not correct, she stumbled when up front, but recovered and kept running. She did not fall after that....she just fell back. You can see her in several shots just dropping further back. Not sure why people are trying to come up with this excuse.
Valby didn't collapse. She was tripped by Orton and fell back but still finished less than 20 seconds behind Mercy Chelangat who's the top returner. Considering Valby had hardly been training that was quite a good finish for her. Chelangat also appears in much better condition now than she was a year ago.
I saw the contact at about 4K which caused her to stumble (but not go down, and caused Steelman to have to react). Some said she was actually tripped a little later and went down. Is that correct?
Valby said later that she was tripped four times and fell down once. However, this one at 11:45 & 12:50 is the only one I saw that they showed on the video.
Watch the entirety of the 2021 DI women's NCAA cross country championship. BYU's Whittni Orton takes home the individual championship in the 6K with a time o...
Valby didn't collapse. She was tripped by Orton and fell back but still finished less than 20 seconds behind Mercy Chelangat who's the top returner. Considering Valby had hardly been training that was quite a good finish for her. Chelangat also appears in much better condition now than she was a year ago.
no ... we all saw the video. she went out too hard. after tripping herself, she continued to run with the front for quite some time and bonked hard at around 4k. bonking is pretty common, no shame in it.
Alabama's Mercy Chelangat takes home the individual championship with a time of 20:01.1, becoming the first ever individual cross country champion for the Al...
pretty good overhead of Orton BONKING at beginning of final hill on what i believe is the same course as tomorrow's race - yes, it does happen to the best of 'em.
She's not injured (I know you wrote possible). She said she's 100 percent. No excuses. Whoever wins on that day wins on that day. I'll go with Valby, a lot tougher than many Tuohy fans are willing to admit.