See? Clearly posted in English, yet you misinterpret me?
My disagreement was with the sarcasm about the Presidency. You cannot get people on your side if you are disengenuous or exaggerate.
There is a huge difference between hatred, and making qualified stereotypical remarks. I am someone that cannot (or should not ) be racially stereotyped (not that I know of), because I do not live in a ghetto of 'like' people, and as a non religious mixed race, I do not identify with any racial or religious groups, not in my neighbourhood, memberships, friends or colleagues.
If you self identify as a group, make a point of living together in the same neighbourhood with that group, help strangers of same group to jobs and opportunities, attend the same religious centres, disassociate from other groups, have laws regarding marriage into such groups etc etc, all free choices, then how the heck can you complain when people stereotype your group when you clearly stand out in some sectors.
Stop playing the card that you are dealing for yourself
Should we blame the victim? When a Jewish synagogue a Muslim mosque are vandalized, when a Sikh is attacked on the street, when a Chinese person is attacked is it because they live amongst themselves or create networks?
Sometimes perpetuating stereotypes attached with other messages brings out hate and violence.
Maybe it does , yes, but how does that have to stop people talking about it. Remember, I am not talking about those free choices just separating the group from from others. I am talking about how they use that power of their grouping, their bargaining power, and decision making. I can actually speak from personal experience...should I forget that if I see it still happenning?
In my city the Irish have traditionally been "over represented" in politics, the fire department and the police department. Should we still blame the Irish the way we blame the Jews? Fortunately for the Irish they aren't recipients of the same vitriol and violence, but the Jews still are. And as Asians are becoming more successful, whether in certain industries or college admission, they too are being attacked. Sometimes jokes, generalizations, and the marginalization of groups have consequences.
Perhaps your city is mostly of Irish heritage like many are in US I believe, I don't know. Did they control the property you could buy, the shops you could open on the corner of your neighbourhood and instead open their own? I don't know, but I do know that that happenned to us.
At one point the Irish did, not as much anymore. This still happens with many ethnic group as we still have Polish neighborhoods, Jewish neighborhoods, Italian neighborhoods (yes the mafia still exists), Dominican neighborhoods etc...When "other" groups open businesses in certain areas there have been violence. Korean grocers, Yemeni deli owners, Pakistani franchise owners, etc...have experienced this in many areas of NYC and other cities.
You seem to be blaming one group, I'm sure there's more than one group of people in your city/country that acts this way.
That you think he is stifling open speech while others argue he’s allowing hatred to fester by not silencing speech enough tells me he is in the right track by being attacked by both opinions.
See? Clearly posted in English, yet you misinterpret me?
My disagreement was with the sarcasm about the Presidency. You cannot get people on your side if you are disengenuous or exaggerate.
There is a huge difference between hatred, and making qualified stereotypical remarks. I am someone that cannot (or should not ) be racially stereotyped (not that I know of), because I do not live in a ghetto of 'like' people, and as a non religious mixed race, I do not identify with any racial or religious groups, not in my neighbourhood, memberships, friends or colleagues.
If you self identify as a group, make a point of living together in the same neighbourhood with that group, help strangers of same group to jobs and opportunities, attend the same religious centres, disassociate from other groups, have laws regarding marriage into such groups etc etc, all free choices, then how the heck can you complain when people stereotype your group when you clearly stand out in some sectors.
Stop playing the card that you are dealing for yourself
I quoted your full statement and don’t see how your saying that Jon’s comments equated to "shut up you anti semitist" (your words) is somehow misrepresented in my claim that you think he is stifling free speech. If anything, you misinterpreted him.
Face up and have an inward look John, have a think about "hey why are they saying that'? Is there an element of truth perhaps? What can we learn"? Except it is, "shut up you anti semitist".
Jon Stewart: “I think just reflexively naming things anti-Semitism is as reductive as some of the things that they might be saying as it immediately shuts down conversation.”
He then goes on to say that you have to understand why people say these things about Jewish people having an inequitable control or influence in some industries in order to deconstruct and have conversations about those feelings. Precisely what you are asking of him.
Face up and have an inward look John, have a think about "hey why are they saying that'? Is there an element of truth perhaps? What can we learn"? Except it is, "shut up you anti semitist".
Jon Stewart: “I think just reflexively naming things anti-Semitism is as reductive as some of the things that they might be saying as it immediately shuts down conversation.”
He then goes on to say that you have to understand why people say these things about Jewish people having an inequitable control or influence in some industries in order to deconstruct and have conversations about those feelings. Precisely what you are asking of him.
So yeah, I don’t get this paragraph from you.
I don't think so. I am Sam is not asking of Stewart the same thing that Jon Stewart is asking of the spreaders of antisemitism. Not at all.
Jon Stewart is saying look at the underlying reasons that those who say anti-Semitic things, but I am Sam is, on the other hand, is simply saying look at whether the statements are true and you may be surprised that they are (according to I am Sam), rather than flatly dismissing them.
See the difference?
Stewart kind of assumes the tropes are wrong, but says look beyond them to see why they are saying them. But I am Sam says they tropes may be right, and not to just dismiss them as anti-semitism.
Very different things. I am Sam is venturing down a path to justify stereotypical tropes on the grounds that he has witnessed them to be often true according to his experiences. And Jon Stewart is saying nothing of the sort.
I don't know why this thread is still up. Several days ago, more than one self-identified White Jew implied he or she wanted to cancel David C. We know that's not going to happen. No posters are even mentioning David C by name. This thread is done. Posters on this thread are walking ghosts. David C isn't getting cancelled. Move on.
You seem to be blaming one group, I'm sure there's more than one group of people in your city/country that acts this way.
In the country I grew up in , outside of 'legalised discrimination' there was only one group that , without supporting that politics, used the position those politics gave them to exploit groups that didn't have that postion of power. Not only in my city, but in all the major cities, domination of councils leading to control of property development, eviction of people, replacement by their businesses etc etc. Real true experiences, that you can't help being reminded of when you see domination of certain sectors today.
There are times when I wish that 'we' had that cohesion, because it would have been a benefit, then I realise there was no 'we' for us, and that is probably a better thing because it made me mix with everybody, including some who are probably Jewish - I am not religiuous.
An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood is a 1988 non-fiction book whose topic is the careers of several prominent Jewish film producers in the early years of Hollywood. Author Neal Gabler focuses on the psych...
And there view is still over represented. This video is really common knowledge, but some people dispute it. It does explain why there were and are so many ...
I like John Stewart, but he misrepresents when he sarcastically says " ok, we will allow a Christian to become President".
I don't think anyone says that 'The (self described) Jews" control federal politics. In fact the opposite throughout the world. Jewish groups -as defined by their own demographic and business footprint in new countries that have accepted them - support either side of the national political spectrum because that makes business sense- whilst being (or having been at one stage) over represented at local council and lobby group levels. Make of that what you will.
You could blast that as anti semitist stereotyping, but I , and my parents and grandparents before that, have personal experience of that in another colonial country, so go ahead.
Face up and have an inward look John, have a think about "hey why are they saying that'? Is there an element of truth perhaps? What can we learn"? Except it is, "shut up you anti semitist".
In my city the Irish have traditionally been "over represented" in politics, the fire department and the police department. Should we still blame the Irish the way we blame the Jews? Fortunately for the Irish they aren't recipients of the same vitriol and violence, but the Jews still are. And as Asians are becoming more successful, whether in certain industries or college admission, they too are being attacked. Sometimes jokes, generalizations, and the marginalization of groups have consequences.
Right.
Look at all those Sullivans and O'Briens on the list of people who put money into politics.
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
Chappelle doubling down on his Space Jewsbit from The Closer. Still plenty butthurt from the way Comedy Central treated him when they started streaming Chappelle's Show on Netflix and he wasn't seeing any $.
As everybody knows, no Jews are involved with Comedy Central or any of its parent companies. Not now, not ever.
Jon Stewart: “I think just reflexively naming things anti-Semitism is as reductive as some of the things that they might be saying as it immediately shuts down conversation.”
He then goes on to say that you have to understand why people say these things about Jewish people having an inequitable control or influence in some industries in order to deconstruct and have conversations about those feelings. Precisely what you are asking of him.
So yeah, I don’t get this paragraph from you.
I don't think so. I am Sam is not asking of Stewart the same thing that Jon Stewart is asking of the spreaders of antisemitism. Not at all.
Jon Stewart is saying look at the underlying reasons that those who say anti-Semitic things, but I am Sam is, on the other hand, is simply saying look at whether the statements are true and you may be surprised that they are (according to I am Sam), rather than flatly dismissing them.
See the difference?
Stewart kind of assumes the tropes are wrong, but says look beyond them to see why they are saying them. But I am Sam says they tropes may be right, and not to just dismiss them as anti-semitism.
Very different things. I am Sam is venturing down a path to justify stereotypical tropes on the grounds that he has witnessed them to be often true according to his experiences. And Jon Stewart is saying nothing of the sort.
1 Definition of trope: a: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : FIGURE OF SPEECH b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉ
The claim that someone is engaging in tropes about Jews is in itself misleading.
It is implied the claims are false. But tropes are not false. Just cliche'd
In my city the Irish have traditionally been "over represented" in politics, the fire department and the police department. Should we still blame the Irish the way we blame the Jews? Fortunately for the Irish they aren't recipients of the same vitriol and violence, but the Jews still are. And as Asians are becoming more successful, whether in certain industries or college admission, they too are being attacked. Sometimes jokes, generalizations, and the marginalization of groups have consequences.
Right.
Look at all those Sullivans and O'Briens on the list of people who put money into politics.
You seem to be blaming one group, I'm sure there's more than one group of people in your city/country that acts this way.
In the country I grew up in , outside of 'legalised discrimination' there was only one group that , without supporting that politics, used the position those politics gave them to exploit groups that didn't have that postion of power. Not only in my city, but in all the major cities, domination of councils leading to control of property development, eviction of people, replacement by their businesses etc etc. Real true experiences, that you can't help being reminded of when you see domination of certain sectors today.
There are times when I wish that 'we' had that cohesion, because it would have been a benefit, then I realise there was no 'we' for us, and that is probably a better thing because it made me mix with everybody, including some who are probably Jewish - I am not religiuous.
I suspect that in the colonial country where your relatives settled there were other groups that first settled, used their influence, cohesion, and power to become successful.
You seem to be an advocate for assimilation, Jews found out the hard way that assimilation doesn't help. In some countries they couldn't own land and they were forced to be merchants, bankers, and take on other occupations and yes live in certain areas.
I don't think so. I am Sam is not asking of Stewart the same thing that Jon Stewart is asking of the spreaders of antisemitism. Not at all.
Jon Stewart is saying look at the underlying reasons that those who say anti-Semitic things, but I am Sam is, on the other hand, is simply saying look at whether the statements are true and you may be surprised that they are (according to I am Sam), rather than flatly dismissing them.
See the difference?
Stewart kind of assumes the tropes are wrong, but says look beyond them to see why they are saying them. But I am Sam says they tropes may be right, and not to just dismiss them as anti-semitism.
Very different things. I am Sam is venturing down a path to justify stereotypical tropes on the grounds that he has witnessed them to be often true according to his experiences. And Jon Stewart is saying nothing of the sort.
1 Definition of trope: a: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : FIGURE OF SPEECH b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉ
The claim that someone is engaging in tropes about Jews is in itself misleading.
It is implied the claims are false. But tropes are not false. Just cliche'd
In another thread there are tropes about black people and crime. That trope seems to bother you but you love spreading tropes about Jews. I wonder why?
1 Definition of trope: a: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : FIGURE OF SPEECH b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉ
The claim that someone is engaging in tropes about Jews is in itself misleading.
It is implied the claims are false. But tropes are not false. Just cliche'd
In another thread there are tropes about black people and crime. That trope seems to bother you but you love spreading tropes about Jews. I wonder why?
The point is that calling something a trope and implying it is false is dishonest. And a listing of documented facts is simply that, a list of facts
Pointing at blacks as the major purveyors of American violence and crime is a lie. As I have noted several times, American foreign (and domestic) policy kills millions of people every few years
In the country I grew up in , outside of 'legalised discrimination' there was only one group that , without supporting that politics, used the position those politics gave them to exploit groups that didn't have that postion of power. Not only in my city, but in all the major cities, domination of councils leading to control of property development, eviction of people, replacement by their businesses etc etc. Real true experiences, that you can't help being reminded of when you see domination of certain sectors today.
There are times when I wish that 'we' had that cohesion, because it would have been a benefit, then I realise there was no 'we' for us, and that is probably a better thing because it made me mix with everybody, including some who are probably Jewish - I am not religiuous.
I suspect that in the colonial country where your relatives settled there were other groups that first settled, used their influence, cohesion, and power to become successful.
You seem to be an advocate for assimilation, Jews found out the hard way that assimilation doesn't help. In some countries they couldn't own land and they were forced to be merchants, bankers, and take on other occupations and yes live in certain areas.
Much of organized Jewry calls assimilation a genocide.
Don't blame the Goyim for Jewish hyper ethnocentricity.
Forced to be in industries where the power lies? Please
You seem to be an advocate for assimilation, Jews found out the hard way that assimilation doesn't help. In some countries they couldn't own land and they were forced to be merchants, bankers, and take on other occupations and yes live in certain areas.
Blacks and browns and Asians and Irish, Italians, Poles got all those good jobs picking crops, building railroads and subways, working in the coal mines.
Jews wanted those jobs but had to settle for being bankers and merchants!
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