3rd Kipchoge pacer popped for drugs- 2016/2019 Rotterdam champ - Marius Kipserem (2:04:04 pb) confesses to EPO usage

The only Norwegians ever who trained seriously for distance running? Boysen, Kvalheim, Waitz, Kristiansen, Waitz, Moen to name a few.

Why should a Norwegian not beat the best East Africans?

When the small region of East Africa completely dominates the rankings in the Marathon, Half Marathon, Steeple and also are the best in the other events it means nothing for you. When a few runners from the big part of the rest of world win gold medals and set a few records it's some sort of proof for you they are superior. You are extremely stupid.

Curious choice of word "proportions". This suggests you understand that it is possible to discuss numbers in absolute terms, or in relative "proportions".

Kenyan doping busts are certainly high in absolute terms, due to a combination of factors, but because they have so many successful athletes at the top, it's not yet clear that these high number of absolute busts indicate "proportionally" higher than the global average.

In unofficial Sunday Times reporting, when looking at "blood doping" suspicion as a percentage by country, Kenya (and Ethiopia) were "proportionally" below the global average, while the highest figures came from largely non-competitive Eastern countries. The IAAF has conducted similar studies showing similar "proportions" of average blood doping among East Africans.

If we start by assuming doping effect is significant, for longer distance events, we could then conclude that Kenyan athletes are disproportionately represented. This is a direct result of our initial assumption.

But if we assume doping effect is negligible, and Kenyan success at world levels is due to talent and training, and a few other non-doping factors, then the same "proportion" of doping, by nationality, will result in more Kenyan busts simply because more Kenyans are winning.

Without more facts, the interpretation of the number of busts, and its causes, largely depends on your assumptions, and those looking for confirmation will find it.

Are any of these guys claiming that Kipchoge also doped/dopes??

Why are so many athletes taking EPO if it has little to no effect? Is it the world's best placebo? I think not. Maybe the athletes and their advisers know more than a nameless nobody in a chat room.

He's just trolling you all. If you ignore him he will go away.

More doping than anyone else.

A load of meaningless waffle that doesn't get around the fact that we see Kenyan distance runners busted weekly. That is certainly a race where they are far ahead of anyone else.

Fine article from Marco Bonarrigo journalist on Italian newspaper

Doping and athletics, in Africa a boom of cases: 4 "hares" of Kipchoge disqualified
by Marco Bonarrigo Drugs, escapes, fake identities behind the record factory. Since January 1, 23 athletes have been found positive in Kenya
It is useless to look for them on the Net: they have disappeared from the web like those Chinese and Russian dignitaries who have fallen from grace and removed from the memory of their homeland. The portraits and biographies of Marius Kisperem, Philemon Kacheran and Justus Kimutai have recently been "bleached" by the site ineos159challenge.com in which they appeared among the "pacemaker-angels", the "hares", who helped on 12 October 2019 in Vienna Eliud Kipchoge to break down the wall of two hours in the marathon, one of the most successful sports marketing operations ever. A fourth, Alex Korio, had already been sanctioned. The faults of the four Kenyans are not political but pharmacological: erythropoietin (for Marius), testosterone (for Philemon) and escape from doping tests for Justus and Alex. The divine Kipchoge (who has nothing to do with the three cases and doping) did not comment, neither did Ineos, but for the Athletics Integrity Unit (Aiu) that performs the checks in athletics, the four cases are just the tip of an iceberg.

Since last January 1st there are 23 (record) Kenyans suspended for doping while 56 of their compatriots, 12 Ethiopians and another 60 athletes from Nigeria, Morocco, Ethiopia and another ten African nations are serving a disqualification. Behind the crazy performances there are not only the famous heels but there is also an impressive doping. The numbers of hegemony are known: there are only six non-Africans among the hundred fastest marathoners ever and only two (out of 70) among those who in the last ten years have triumphed in the great Olympic and world marathons, escaping African domination. The new drug mix of cross-country and marathon runners combines classic products (the old Epo, testosterone and its brothers), blood transfusions, the future metabolic accelerator GW501516, the antischemic trimetazidine very dear to cyclists, ostarine, meldonium launched by Sharapova, the letrozole of tennis memory, the highly popular triamcinolone, a glucocorticoid that has produced ten cases in a few months like those of Diana Kipyokei, winner in Boston in 2021, and of Betty Wilson Lempus, winner of the last half marathon of Paris. Doped hunters sometimes fish in a targeted manner, others by trawling. In cases of positivity to "hospital" substances such as Epo, fake hospitalizations and fake transfusions abound, as for the Ethiopian Etaferahu Wodaj, disqualified for twelve years.
The surprise tests to build the biological passport that framed the Moroccan Aziz Lahbabi require continuous stalking and the many "missed checks" have almost comical implications: non-existent addresses, escapes from the windows of the house. To frame Mathew Kipkoech Kisorio, one of the best in the world in the half marathon, the inspectors of Aiu swooped in four times in ten months at home and where the Kenyan said to train but he was always elsewhere. Then there are grotesque cases: disqualified in 2017 for doping, the Kenyan Hillary Kiprotich recently ran some international marathons under the (female) identity of Shieys Chepkosgei. Exposed, he cleared himself by presenting a fake birth certificate to the Eldoret Criminal Court. A criminal sentence was added to the disqualification (doubled).

This the original article

corriere.it

Doping e atletica, in Africa boom di casi: squalificate 4 «lepri» di Kipchoge

Marco Bonarrigo

Farmaci, fughe, finte identità dietro la fabbrica dei record. Dal 1° gennaio in Kenya sono stati trovati positivi 23 atleti

Link:www.corriere.it/sport/22_ottobre_28/in...

Kenya and Ethiopia should be banned from competing indefinitely.

All these stupid studies the apologists are posting mean squat. There are so many top athletes from both countries getting popped on a seemingly weekly basis.

Set an example and get rid of the cheating stick figures!

Ethiopians getting popped on a weekly basis? Care to share your sources? Thanks.

LOL - the doping apologists don't ever post studies that show blood doping doesn't work for long distance runners. They just criticize all the studies that show a positive effect.

Abdi Nageeye and Bashir Abdi are not European?

What are doing your poor Non African brothers? serving the fast life and not entering dangerous and less lucrative jobs like running in the roads?

22 Italians are serving ban sanctions

34 French are serving ban sanctions

1) The individual runner dopes more? Or 2) the percentage of dopers is higher?

If 1) please explain in more detail.

If 2) still the rest of the world must have much much more dopers.

Ethiopia is not experiencing many busts. In fact, it's notably few considering how many elite runners there are. Unless you have evidence of state-sponsored doping (evasion) or proof that testing numbers are insufficient (the AIU chief was asked this by Jon Gault and didn't think so), you're just advocating a blanket ban for no reason. Pretty much all the top Ethiopians live and train in Addis. The most incriminating stats about Ethiopians were in that analysis of blood in 2011/2013, which made Kenya look OK for what it's worth. If anything, I think the takeaway nowadays is desperate, sloppy and non-sophisticated doping gets caught. Doesn't appear Ethiopia is rife with that. You can speculate they are sophisticated dopers in Ethiopia but you'd have as much evidence of that as someone who says Jakob or Grant Fisher are doping.

Lol, the guy who regularly posits as proof of El G's innocence a 2008 LetsRun survey which found that a majority of anonymous users, multiple throw away accounts, and paid shills, and other doping apologists, believed he was clean.

The studies are consistent in finding that EPO improves performance by 5 - 6%, which is at least 42 seconds for a 14 minute 5K runner. Then there have been many more studies which looked at EPO effects on various biological parameters. I don't pretend to be an expert on interpreting the science of these, but the conclusions of all these studies indirectly confirm an improvement to be expected in running performance.

I don't know why I've fallen for the bait again. This is another important doping thread and it always ends up as an attempt to prove to RekRunner that EPO works, which is as silly as an advanced science forum having to constantly 'prove' to a red neck flat earther troll why the Earth is round. I think I will block you now, and I recommend others do the same.

journals.plos.org

Haemoglobin Mass and Running Time Trial Performance after Recombinant Human Erythropoietin Administration in Trained Men

Recombinant human erythropoietin (rHuEpo) increases haemoglobin mass (Hbmass) and maximal oxygen uptake ( O2 max). Purpose This study defined the time course of changes in Hbmass, O2 max as well as running time trial performa...

Link:journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=1...

runnersworld.com

Study: Kenyans Get Performance Boost From EPO

At least one top coach has claimed otherwise.

Link:www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a208...

This fact doesn't really justify your use of the word "proportions".

Epo has a hudge effect. Lance Armstrong had with EPO a FTP of 7W/Kg, without 6W/kg.

Now you know.

That's a curious way to want to dismiss a 2014 Letsrun survey of the collective opinion of informed letsrun readers that you don't like. For info, I did not participate in that survey. Maybe El G doped, but there is really know way for anyone to know.

It's also curious you say consistently 5-6%, but in other threads, we have seen quotes from real anti-doping "experts" like Malm and Schumacher who will say things like "may be up to 3%" or "up to 1 minute for a 10K (34 minute -- about 3%)", and linking to studies which recommend against making such projections.

I guess from these examples, that Pitsilidas' studies on Kenyans is the one you recommend as one of the best? It's a popular one, because I think it has been published in various forms at least three times.

It's one of my favorites too. They take a group of near-elite caliber runners with a predicted capability of 8:00 for 3K, get them to run 9:24 at the beginning of a study (or tempoing at their marathon pace), and then with EPO, get them to run 8:57 (or tempoing at their half-marathon pace). They even measured RPE, and the Kenyans themselves self-reported they weren't really exerting themselves.

Note 9 minutes is what the best US High School girls were running in the '70s.

The main conclusion I drew is that these scientists don't know how to coach performance.

Another conclusion is that they conducted a performance time-trial without a control group, and designed a performance study without a pre-intervention control phase.

Maybe if you block me, or ignore me, I'll go away. Or you can try covering your eyes with your hands and saying I can't see you, or covering your ears and saying you can't hear me.