And the two new recruits are from Nashville, TN and Bristol, VA... which is on the Tennessee and Virginia State Line. Brother is also on the team. Lets try again!
There is no XC page... its' under track. For this analysis, I included mid-distance guys (some of which had a XC seasons listed in their bio). I am going to assume that we include 800 guys in Carlson purview and "distance money" he certainly coached all the 800 guys at ND). If you think they spend money on "a bunch of kids within 150 miles", you haven't been paying attention. BAS loved "buying" a Footlocker Finalist every year and thought she could make it work with 2-3 of those on her roster. Before that, JJ didn't give a lick about in state kids. Sure, there will be some in state or local kids... those are the walk-ons or books kids. You'll get that everywhere. Anyone inside a 150 mile radius that ran decent went elsewhere for college (I included a list of decent runners below that were inside of 150 miles from Knoxville and went elsewhere). Compare the HS PRs for the kids over the last 5 years that lived within 150 and went elsewhere compared to the kids on the team that lived within 150.
The kids in bold are from more than 150 miles away... 14 of 22 kids under Carlson's watch... That's well over half the team from more than 150... and the 2 from VA that you so conveniently pointed out are out of state, but within 150 miles. That's even worse!!!! Those kids have to pay out of state tuition or get that much money taken from scholarship dollars.
Fuji Anday - Murfreesboro (180.2 miles), Canaan Anderson - Murfreesboro (180.2 miles), Riley Buchholz - Beavercreek, OH (306 miles), Alex Crigger 4:17 - Johnson City (120 miles), Will Cronin 4:40 went to Tusculum first - Greeneville, TN (71 miles), Thomas Gardiner - Warwick, NY (699 miles), Georde Goodwyn 4:21 - Knoxville, TN (< 150 miles), Mike Griffin - Wrentham, MA (917 miles), Connor Hawkins 4:16 - Cookeville, TN (102 miles), Kameron Hemlinger - Mechanicsville, VA (438 miles), Will Mazur - Waxhah, NC (245 miles), Matthew McMillan - Brentwood, TN (185 miles), Eli Nahom - New Mildford, CT (786 miles), Devin Sullivan 4:31 - Knoxville, TN (0 miles), Tim Thacker )no times listed in HS, was homeschooled, but went to Milligan first) - Knoxville, TN (0 miles), Karl Thiessen 4:20 - Abingdon, VA (127 miles)
Mid distance: Joe Hoots - Nashville, TN (181 miles), Blake Ewaskey - Doylestown, PA (653 miles), Jakwan Hale - Derby, CT (781 miles), Alex Kay - Ocala, FL (577 miles)
Recruits: Connor Henson - Columbia, TN (219 miles), Isaac Thiessen 4:20 - Abingdon, VA (127 miles)
Good runners over the last 5 years within 150 miles of UT that went elsewhere... don't expand the list to include Nashville/middle TN, because there are TON of decent kids from middle TN that went elsewhere:
Adam Barhard - Georgetown 4:05, Levi Streeval - Lipscomb 4:10, Josh Routh - ETSU 4:12, Jeb Jones - Samford 4:13, Quintin McKinnish - Furman 4:13, Ben Varghese - ETSU 4:13, Chris McElroy - Baylor 4:15, Connor Wingfield - Colorado 4:15, Michael Mansy - NC State 4:17
Lots of back and forth here without many clear takeaways, so I’ll try to summarize them:
- The prior two coaches didn’t recruit Tennessee talent well. This could be due to multiple factors, though as a Tennessean I can tell you they don’t have strong relationships and respect in the area like George Watts used to (whether justified or not)
- There are talented kids that come out of East TN. It isn’t California by any means, but a lot of talent worth grabbing
Don’t forget that Knoxville is also a s***ty running town. Other than Cherokee Boulevard you’re keeping it on the ‘crete
The previous coaches did just fine recruiting local talent. An overwhelming amount of the east Tennessee standouts they did not recruit did not pan out well. Several dominant high schools in the state have a (well deserved) reputation for overtraining kids to have them burn out at the collegiate level.
Knoxville isn't the greatest city for running, but there are good options near by for soft surface running. Oak ridge has the North Boundary Greenway (15mi, gravel), Black Oak Greenway (11mi, gravel), and there's plenty of trail running available. Not to mention the university's cross country course.
Great point about previous coaches avoiding those who burned out. Only big miss in the last ten years seemed to be Templeton, who was probably given a full ride by Furman.
A big reason they struggled to recruit locally had to have been the alumnis impact. Those guys are connected to a bunch of HS in Tennessee and likely told them to avoid UT because they have this over strung loyalty to Watts.
Great point about previous coaches avoiding those who burned out. Only big miss in the last ten years seemed to be Templeton, who was probably given a full ride by Furman.
A big reason they struggled to recruit locally had to have been the alumnis impact. Those guys are connected to a bunch of HS in Tennessee and likely told them to avoid UT because they have this over strung loyalty to Watts.
So no big miss on Brodey Hasty (AA in XC), Cole Bullock (AA in XC and indoor track), Baylor Franklin (2x AA), Davis Bove (2x AA), Titus Winders (2x D2 national champ), Jake Renfree (AA in XC), Carlton Orange(2x AA), Luke Meade (AA in XC)?
Templeton had how many in XC? 1???
**checks notes, when is the last time UT has had an AA in XC or any event from 800 to 10K?
Howard the team finish so high at nationals without local talent? That is the best recruiting in history if they git all out of state kids with only 12 scholarships.
Howard the team finish so high at nationals without local talent? That is the best recruiting in history if they git all out of state kids with only 12 scholarships.
These are the kids who scored points at nationals: Favor Ashe (100, 4x1) - Nigeria Wayne Pinnock (4x1, long jump) - Jamaica Carey McCloud (4x1, long jump) - Jamaica Emmanuel Bynum (4x1) - Memphis, TN Jordan West (shot put) - NJ Anthony Riley (long jump) - OK
Howard the team finish so high at nationals without local talent? That is the best recruiting in history if they git all out of state kids with only 12 scholarships.
This is talking about the distance program. How many points did they score in the distance events?
The previous coaches did just fine recruiting local talent. An overwhelming amount of the east Tennessee standouts they did not recruit did not pan out well. Several dominant high schools in the state have a (well deserved) reputation for overtraining kids to have them burn out at the collegiate level.
Knoxville isn't the greatest city for running, but there are good options near by for soft surface running. Oak ridge has the North Boundary Greenway (15mi, gravel), Black Oak Greenway (11mi, gravel), and there's plenty of trail running available. Not to mention the university's cross country course.
Just looked up the North Boundary Greenway and it’s 45 minutes from campus. If your counterexamples of good running paths are 45 minutes away then I rest my case.
Posts above should also include Carter Coughlin - Knoxville native who ran 29:09 this season. Or was he also too burned out to recruit?
Howard the team finish so high at nationals without local talent? That is the best recruiting in history if they git all out of state kids with only 12 scholarships.
This is talking about the distance program. How many points did they score in the distance events?
Zero. UT has not had an athlete score a point in the 1500-10K or indoor mile-5k since 1997. For the 800, you'd have to go back to 2008. Dylan Jacobs likely about to change that.
The previous coaches did just fine recruiting local talent. An overwhelming amount of the east Tennessee standouts they did not recruit did not pan out well. Several dominant high schools in the state have a (well deserved) reputation for overtraining kids to have them burn out at the collegiate level.
Knoxville isn't the greatest city for running, but there are good options near by for soft surface running. Oak ridge has the North Boundary Greenway (15mi, gravel), Black Oak Greenway (11mi, gravel), and there's plenty of trail running available. Not to mention the university's cross country course.
Just looked up the North Boundary Greenway and it’s 45 minutes from campus. If your counterexamples of good running paths are 45 minutes away then I rest my case.
Posts above should also include Carter Coughlin - Knoxville native who ran 29:09 this season. Or was he also too burned out to recruit?
Do you really think a kid who can get into Wake Forest has UT-K on his wish list?
This is talking about the distance program. How many points did they score in the distance events?
Zero. UT has not had an athlete score a point in the 1500-10K or indoor mile-5k since 1997. For the 800, you'd have to go back to 2008. Dylan Jacobs likely about to change that.
Tim, so you admit that Watts didn’t produce a lick in his last FOURTEEN years??
Second, Watts had Brock Smith, Marc Sylvester, Paul Cross, and Yarrick Kincaid score in the 800 at the NCAA meet from 2002-2008 at UT. More points than the distance crew has scored at UT since Beth took over...which is zero by the way.
And just to add to that, ETSU had men run faster than anyone at UT has since Zack Long. This year 1:48, 3:43, 8:25 steeple, 13:50. As a matter of fact, he had a boy break 4:00 in the mile this year, something no UT athlete has ever done. Just saying...
And just to add to that, ETSU had men run faster than anyone at UT has since Zack Long. This year 1:48, 3:43, 8:25 steeple, 13:50. As a matter of fact, he had a boy break 4:00 in the mile this year, something no UT athlete has ever done. Just saying...
The 8:25 was not for the steeple... but the other marks are legit. Great marks by ETSU this year. And it's kinda unfair to compare ETSU performances to UT performances. It's a WAY different recruiting game. ETSU doesn't even have an outdoor track.
And just to add to that, ETSU had men run faster than anyone at UT has since Zack Long. This year 1:48, 3:43, 8:25 steeple, 13:50. As a matter of fact, he had a boy break 4:00 in the mile this year, something no UT athlete has ever done. Just saying...
Hoots 1:48
Anderson 3:42
Thacker 3:43
Crigger 8:52 3k steeple
If you're going to have such firm convictions, please be accurate. Perhaps the boys at ETSU were faster in the 800 and 1500 by some fraction of a second. But to act as if they are consistently outperforming UTK is just not right.
Adam Bradtmueller had a phenomenal season at ETSU and put up some fantastic marks, it was well deserved. His 3:57 was a great run in the post season. It looks like he has been competing since 2017, he may be finished with collegiate running. Though eligibility has been odd since covid.
I don't understand the obsession with hating on what Tennessee has been doing the past several years, specifically on the distance side. They've done well to build the team they have on the men's side with obviously such little money available.
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