SHELBY HOULIHAN SPEAKS! Issues statement, does RW Q&A & 90min podcast explaining her side.

Eh, intent matters to some degree. I agree that athletes are responsible for what goes in their bodies, because otherwise cheating would be too easy. But you can’t tell me that all the vitriol she receivers for being a drug cheat is completely indifferent to whether she intentionally was on the juice or if she screwed up and ingested something by accodent.

She deserves a suspension either way, and if it can’t be determined which it is, that’s kinda on her. But in terms of how I view her, if she intentionally took a PED, she disgraced the sport and I’d never want to see her compete again. If something slipped through the crack, maybe I’d see that her irresponsible, careless, or even not taking her sport seriously enough (all of that is fair), but I wouldn’t hate her for it, and I’d definitely want to punish a drug cheat way more than someone being a moran.

This says nothing about what I think should have happened to her. Sure seems like she was taking something she shouldn’t and got what was justified. But if I found out that wasn’t the case, then I’d view it slightly differently. Cetainly there should still be consequences, but it’s not the same thing at all. So far there’s no evidence that it was an accident though.

But it is only your supposition that it “ sure seems”.

Can you account for what you ate over a month ago?

Not made up but a supposition from all the published papers inc the Wada TD.

The Shelby Q*A with RW is now behind their paywall so we have summarized it.

Interesting. If anyone from her inner circle (who is not corrupt) remembers having conversations with SH about other supplements she takes or TUEs she had, now would be a very good time to come forward from a goodwill standpoint.

Yes, they worked backwards to get that story. I wish they had been up front about that at the beginning.

But think about it logically. You test positive. You call a lawyer and say, "I don't know how I did this. I'm clean." He says, "Ok we have to come up with a food log. The thing that most likely leads to nandrolene is pregnancy or pig offal."

"Damn, I'm not pregnant and I never eat pig offal."

YOu then get your receipts and realize you ate at a food truck 10 hours before the test at a truck that has pig offal on the menu. I mean even the Shelby haters have to admit that's a crazy coincidence. The fact that she ate at a place with pig offal - which is totally rare - in her last meal at the exact time frame most likely to screw you is very good for here.

SInce you can't just argue, "I don't know where it came from," you go with that.

It's far from crazy. I just wish they had been upfront about it.

The problem with this has always been the food truck offered pork stomach or sausage (Chorizo). These aren't really that crazy to be on the menu, and they are not the parts of a pig (which again would have to be a very specific pig missed by food inspection) that would cause such a high reading. Shelby and team did NOT argue that she ate liver, heart or testes which are what produce the high values in studies.

Also Shelby (still somehow) has not figured out that the "it was so rich I couldn't finish it" argument is basically cutting off her nose to spite her face with Shelby producing a high reading that really only makes sense if she ate *a LOT*. Just another hole to poke in her case.

Ultimately, Shelby fundamentally seems to think that the system should have to prove she intentionally doped and how. That's a huge amount of extra resources and investigations, and really Ayotte's precursor theory was more than enough plausibility to go off of in my view.

This, exactly. She asks about the need to find the truth.

The fact is, she had nandro in her body and the clearest explanation was taking it orally. The lab tests were pretty clear - you can't just make up different isotopes.

That's the truth. The tests showed nandro. Case closed. It's on her to show it wasn't intentional, and they came up with a burrito story .. that didn't hold up.

IMHO the most likely case was a supplement. Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know.

The USATF says "It is important to remember that the use of ALL nutritional products is completely at your own risk."

PodcastsAreBoring furiously chisels out on the LetsRun forum

Well two things are obvious:

1) The nandrolone did not come from the burrito (see Tucker + CAS + AIU + WADA).

2) Neither calcium nor vitamins can be contaminated with nandrolone (anti-aging creams etc. might).

So, obviously guilty for intentional doping.

That would be a crazy coincidence, you know what else would be a crazy coincidence.... getting the wrong order, something that looks and tastes nothing like what you ordered, and eating it anyway, and those pig organs aren't from a run of the mill pig, they're from an uncastrated, wild boar. Something that is not even in the US food supply. That certainly would be one hell of a coincidence.

You know what else would be a coincidence? Taking nandrolone orally 10 hours before your drug test and testing positive for taking nandrolone orally.

Just to reiterate my stance - I want to believe her, I really, really do. But the story just does not hold water. We need something better to go on.

I think most peoples issue at this point is she doesn't have a credible excuse, she can't come up with one, and she's done basically nothing but blame the process. I listened to the interview. While she did elude to not knowing where it came from, she spends the vast majority of the time throwing jabs at the testing process and claiming that those who don't believe her are uninformed.

She could just skip all of this and say you know what, its there, I don't know how it got there, it wasn't intentional, the burrito story is ludicrous, and I'm going to move on as best I can. Then stop talking about it.

Again, I want to believe her, I want to like her, but its hard. As fans of endurance sports, we have been burned way too many times on the "I'm better than that" defense. Of course she's going to bring up her character, how hard she works, and how many tests she passed. The fact is, the sport is dirty, and there's a long line of dopers out there using the same rationale to defend themselves. How is she any different?

I think the fact that the isotope for naturally occurring nandro is different than the isotope for artificial nandro (and the one found in her system) is the most glaring hole in the burrito story. Someone should have asked "How do you account for the fact that the isotope for artificial nandrolone was found in your system?" I imagine Shelby just would have said she doesn't know. Nevertheless, the question needs to be asked.

Why that hasn't been talked about more is surprising.

Houlihan reminds me of Robert Young, the Transcon marathon cheat. A doc filmmaker followed his attempt and made a film about it and the scandal, and confronts Young point blank with all the proof he cheated, and even then, Young couldn't bring himself to admit it, all he could say is, "I can't explain it, all I know is i didn't cheat."

I really wonder if at this point, Houlihan has so thoroughly justified her actions in her own mind, so internalized the narrative she's concocted, that she really believes she is clean, and is a victim of a bad process, and deserves to run.

Pigs were pilled as are most livestock

No obvious about it; only you trying to make sense of it all without seeing the actual lab results .

Are you finally coming around to the idea that they have been deceitful from the start?? Why didn’t that bother you more? They lied to you in may of 2021 when you asked where she had been.

I listened to this stupid podcast and Shelby doesn’t offer anything new, just “do your research!” “The facts of the case!” And and proceeds offer no actual facts.

“my character should count for something!” No dear it shouldn’t. That’s just bias. People are biased towards you naturally given that you are a white American. The facts should count for everything.

“they think I just did it once and they caught me.” Please. This has been debunked by a million people including Ross tucker.

she thinks she’s such a victim but the sport is a victim or her and other cheaters.

choosing a 16 yo to do this is just exploitation.

What a statement from USATF to the millions who do sport that everything they eat must be checked out.

Absolutely- what if? That's what I'm saying. What if she was sabotaged? It's obviously a possibility.

CAS: They found nandrolone well above the permitted limit in your sample.

SH: Nandrolone doesn’t even help distance runners. Why would I be so stupid to take it? If I was so stupid, why would I be so stupid so as to not use my test deferral option given how quickly it exits the body?

CAS: You’ve got to be damn stupid. Banned.