Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
oh, and here's your link.
https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/democrats/2016/6/the-economy-under-democratic-vs-republican-presidentsBut I am sure you were already aware of these #'s, and just decided to ignore them when assessing Dems vs Repubs.
Obama's GDP numbers were even worse than Bush. His were worst of the modern era.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.hudson.org/images/20160808AndersonGDPChartAvg.jpgFlagpole wrote:
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
The new voters and 10% of Bernie crossovers might have been enough to swing the election (25% of Clinton primary voters went for McCain in 2008, so those nonsensical cross-over voters aren't unusual at all), but the vast majority of Trump voters were your typical Republicans who voted for the Shrubs and Reagan.
"Trumpism" didn't appear out of nowhere, it was aided by people like George Will, David Brooks, and William Buckley every step of the way. Sure, they're not Deplorables. Sometimes they had good ideas. But the "Conservative Thinkers" of old primarily served to put an intellectual sheen on a Party whose base harbored a lot of racist/theocratic/seditionist/bat-sh*t-crazy sentiments. People like George Will (along with most of the mainstream media, for that matter) pretended these people didn't exist, even as their favorite politicians pandered to them. And they fed plenty of nonsense to those folks themselves, too. George Will, for example, is a climate change denier who believes in voodoo economics. He thinks we should make Congress even stupider by implementing term-limits. He thinks a constitutional convention of the states to implement a balanced budget amendment is a good idea. He has voiced extremely bad/misinformed opinions on voting rights laws.
I have to laugh when I see people like Will and Bill Kristol and Michael Gerson getting paid by the mainstream media to lament Donald Trump and the state of the Republican Party. It's like getting Dr. Frankenstein's perspective on the terrible damage a monster is doing to the town without once asking him about all the experiments he's been conducting in his basement. Claiming that "Trumpism" is some new thing is to ignore the history of Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. The idea of a welfare queen was the spawn of the Reagan administration. H.W. Shrub had his Willie Horton moment. Shrub Jr. knocked McCain out of the primaries by spreading rumors about an illegitimate black child, and proceeded to unleash eight disastrous years of stupidity and maliciousness on the world that need no summarization. Republicans followed up that performance by making the dumbest woman in Alaska their candidate for VP and choosing to obstruct the black guy who won the ensuing election at every possible turn while calling him a Kenyan Muslim.
Claiming that the Republicans in Congress have only recently lost their way ignores their failure to hold anyone accountable for Iran-Contra, the rise of Newt Gingrich, his belief in a "civil war" with liberals, and the "speak like Newt" directives of the Party. It ignores the fact that they branded Rush Limbaugh "the majority maker" all the way back in 1994. It ignores the absurd lengths they went to impeach Clinton over a BJ.
My point is that Trump has been a long time coming, and his current reign of idiocy isn't THAT much different from we've gotten out of Republicans in the past. Reason will not return to the Republican party because there was very little reason there to begin with. They ain't gonna follow up Trump with a guy like John Kasich (who, let's be clear, is still a wingnut).
Mueller isn’t coming.
The clown is Flagpole.
Flagpole WILL BLOW HIS BRAINS OUT OVER POTUS45, DONALD J TRUMP!!
Tick, tick.
Fixed it for you.
You two are cute.
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Really? Many people who voted for Trump hadn't voted in years or had voted Democrat before, and some who supported Bernie Sanders ended up voting for Trump. This is clearly not the Republican Party of even George W. Bush. Right now it is some amalgam of Far-right conservatives, racist white nationalists, evangelicals who have lost their way, some people who just want someone to take care of them, and some libertarians. It is the Trump Party now. A Party without George Will is not the Republican Party of old. Maybe reason will once again be a part of the Republican Party.
The new voters and 10% of Bernie crossovers might have been enough to swing the election (25% of Clinton primary voters went for McCain in 2008, so those nonsensical cross-over voters aren't unusual at all), but the vast majority of Trump voters were your typical Republicans who voted for the Shrubs and Reagan.
"Trumpism" didn't appear out of nowhere, it was aided by people like George Will, David Brooks, and William Buckley every step of the way. Sure, they're not Deplorables. Sometimes they had good ideas. But the "Conservative Thinkers" of old primarily served to put an intellectual sheen on a Party whose base harbored a lot of racist/theocratic/seditionist/bat-sh*t-crazy sentiments. People like George Will (along with most of the mainstream media, for that matter) pretended these people didn't exist, even as their favorite politicians pandered to them. And they fed plenty of nonsense to those folks themselves, too. George Will, for example, is a climate change denier who believes in voodoo economics. He thinks we should make Congress even stupider by implementing term-limits. He thinks a constitutional convention of the states to implement a balanced budget amendment is a good idea. He has voiced extremely bad/misinformed opinions on voting rights laws.
I have to laugh when I see people like Will and Bill Kristol and Michael Gerson getting paid by the mainstream media to lament Donald Trump and the state of the Republican Party. It's like getting Dr. Frankenstein's perspective on the terrible damage a monster is doing to the town without once asking him about all the experiments he's been conducting in his basement. Claiming that "Trumpism" is some new thing is to ignore the history of Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. The idea of a welfare queen was the spawn of the Reagan administration. H.W. Shrub had his Willie Horton moment. Shrub Jr. knocked McCain out of the primaries by spreading rumors about an illegitimate black child, and proceeded to unleash eight disastrous years of stupidity and maliciousness on the world that need no summarization. Republicans followed up that performance by making the dumbest woman in Alaska their candidate for VP and choosing to obstruct the black guy who won the ensuing election at every possible turn while calling him a Kenyan Muslim.
Claiming that the Republicans in Congress have only recently lost their way ignores their failure to hold anyone accountable for Iran-Contra, the rise of Newt Gingrich, his belief in a "civil war" with liberals, and the "speak like Newt" directives of the Party. It ignores the fact that they branded Rush Limbaugh "the majority maker" all the way back in 1994. It ignores the absurd lengths they went to impeach Clinton over a BJ.
My point is that Trump has been a long time coming, and his current reign of idiocy isn't THAT much different from we've gotten out of Republicans in the past. Reason will not return to the Republican party because there was very little reason there to begin with. They ain't gonna follow up Trump with a guy like John Kasich (who, let's be clear, is still a wingnut).
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
The new voters and 10% of Bernie crossovers might have been enough to swing the election (25% of Clinton primary voters went for McCain in 2008, so those nonsensical cross-over voters aren't unusual at all), but the vast majority of Trump voters were your typical Republicans who voted for the Shrubs and Reagan.
"Trumpism" didn't appear out of nowhere, it was aided by people like George Will, David Brooks, and William Buckley every step of the way. Sure, they're not Deplorables. Sometimes they had good ideas. But the "Conservative Thinkers" of old primarily served to put an intellectual sheen on a Party whose base harbored a lot of racist/theocratic/seditionist/bat-sh*t-crazy sentiments. People like George Will (along with most of the mainstream media, for that matter) pretended these people didn't exist, even as their favorite politicians pandered to them. And they fed plenty of nonsense to those folks themselves, too. George Will, for example, is a climate change denier who believes in voodoo economics. He thinks we should make Congress even stupider by implementing term-limits. He thinks a constitutional convention of the states to implement a balanced budget amendment is a good idea. He has voiced extremely bad/misinformed opinions on voting rights laws.
I have to laugh when I see people like Will and Bill Kristol and Michael Gerson getting paid by the mainstream media to lament Donald Trump and the state of the Republican Party. It's like getting Dr. Frankenstein's perspective on the terrible damage a monster is doing to the town without once asking him about all the experiments he's been conducting in his basement. Claiming that "Trumpism" is some new thing is to ignore the history of Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. The idea of a welfare queen was the spawn of the Reagan administration. H.W. Shrub had his Willie Horton moment. Shrub Jr. knocked McCain out of the primaries by spreading rumors about an illegitimate black child, and proceeded to unleash eight disastrous years of stupidity and maliciousness on the world that need no summarization. Republicans followed up that performance by making the dumbest woman in Alaska their candidate for VP and choosing to obstruct the black guy who won the ensuing election at every possible turn while calling him a Kenyan Muslim.
Claiming that the Republicans in Congress have only recently lost their way ignores their failure to hold anyone accountable for Iran-Contra, the rise of Newt Gingrich, his belief in a "civil war" with liberals, and the "speak like Newt" directives of the Party. It ignores the fact that they branded Rush Limbaugh "the majority maker" all the way back in 1994. It ignores the absurd lengths they went to impeach Clinton over a BJ.
My point is that Trump has been a long time coming, and his current reign of idiocy isn't THAT much different from we've gotten out of Republicans in the past. Reason will not return to the Republican party because there was very little reason there to begin with. They ain't gonna follow up Trump with a guy like John Kasich (who, let's be clear, is still a wingnut).
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
I agree with most of this. The Democratic party moved away from "let's try to improve the average quality of life" and towards "let's make sure no one ever has to feel a negative emotion or experience hardship".
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
The new voters and 10% of Bernie crossovers might have been enough to swing the election (25% of Clinton primary voters went for McCain in 2008, so those nonsensical cross-over voters aren't unusual at all), but the vast majority of Trump voters were your typical Republicans who voted for the Shrubs and Reagan.
"Trumpism" didn't appear out of nowhere, it was aided by people like George Will, David Brooks, and William Buckley every step of the way. Sure, they're not Deplorables. Sometimes they had good ideas. But the "Conservative Thinkers" of old primarily served to put an intellectual sheen on a Party whose base harbored a lot of racist/theocratic/seditionist/bat-sh*t-crazy sentiments. People like George Will (along with most of the mainstream media, for that matter) pretended these people didn't exist, even as their favorite politicians pandered to them. And they fed plenty of nonsense to those folks themselves, too. George Will, for example, is a climate change denier who believes in voodoo economics. He thinks we should make Congress even stupider by implementing term-limits. He thinks a constitutional convention of the states to implement a balanced budget amendment is a good idea. He has voiced extremely bad/misinformed opinions on voting rights laws.
I have to laugh when I see people like Will and Bill Kristol and Michael Gerson getting paid by the mainstream media to lament Donald Trump and the state of the Republican Party. It's like getting Dr. Frankenstein's perspective on the terrible damage a monster is doing to the town without once asking him about all the experiments he's been conducting in his basement. Claiming that "Trumpism" is some new thing is to ignore the history of Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. The idea of a welfare queen was the spawn of the Reagan administration. H.W. Shrub had his Willie Horton moment. Shrub Jr. knocked McCain out of the primaries by spreading rumors about an illegitimate black child, and proceeded to unleash eight disastrous years of stupidity and maliciousness on the world that need no summarization. Republicans followed up that performance by making the dumbest woman in Alaska their candidate for VP and choosing to obstruct the black guy who won the ensuing election at every possible turn while calling him a Kenyan Muslim.
Claiming that the Republicans in Congress have only recently lost their way ignores their failure to hold anyone accountable for Iran-Contra, the rise of Newt Gingrich, his belief in a "civil war" with liberals, and the "speak like Newt" directives of the Party. It ignores the fact that they branded Rush Limbaugh "the majority maker" all the way back in 1994. It ignores the absurd lengths they went to impeach Clinton over a BJ.
My point is that Trump has been a long time coming, and his current reign of idiocy isn't THAT much different from we've gotten out of Republicans in the past. Reason will not return to the Republican party because there was very little reason there to begin with. They ain't gonna follow up Trump with a guy like John Kasich (who, let's be clear, is still a wingnut).
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
As a lifelong Democrat, I have to agree with most of this. The party has left me. Not that I’ll ever be conservative, but our party needs reform if I’m ever going to be a part of it again. We are broken.
The candidates that were presented in 2016 were the same despicable person. They just happened to be on opposite sides of the aisle.
Good morning! How are all you LRC stable geniuses doing this fine AM?
Count Chocula wrote:
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
I agree with most of this. The Democratic party moved away from "let's try to improve the average quality of life" and towards "let's make sure no one ever has to feel a negative emotion or experience hardship".
We probably disagree on more than we agree on, but I respect your response here (because it’s honest and not tribal) and agree with your description of where the Dems have gone wrong over the last couple decades.
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
The new voters and 10% of Bernie crossovers might have been enough to swing the election (25% of Clinton primary voters went for McCain in 2008, so those nonsensical cross-over voters aren't unusual at all), but the vast majority of Trump voters were your typical Republicans who voted for the Shrubs and Reagan.
"Trumpism" didn't appear out of nowhere, it was aided by people like George Will, David Brooks, and William Buckley every step of the way. Sure, they're not Deplorables. Sometimes they had good ideas. But the "Conservative Thinkers" of old primarily served to put an intellectual sheen on a Party whose base harbored a lot of racist/theocratic/seditionist/bat-sh*t-crazy sentiments. People like George Will (along with most of the mainstream media, for that matter) pretended these people didn't exist, even as their favorite politicians pandered to them. And they fed plenty of nonsense to those folks themselves, too. George Will, for example, is a climate change denier who believes in voodoo economics. He thinks we should make Congress even stupider by implementing term-limits. He thinks a constitutional convention of the states to implement a balanced budget amendment is a good idea. He has voiced extremely bad/misinformed opinions on voting rights laws.
I have to laugh when I see people like Will and Bill Kristol and Michael Gerson getting paid by the mainstream media to lament Donald Trump and the state of the Republican Party. It's like getting Dr. Frankenstein's perspective on the terrible damage a monster is doing to the town without once asking him about all the experiments he's been conducting in his basement. Claiming that "Trumpism" is some new thing is to ignore the history of Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy. The idea of a welfare queen was the spawn of the Reagan administration. H.W. Shrub had his Willie Horton moment. Shrub Jr. knocked McCain out of the primaries by spreading rumors about an illegitimate black child, and proceeded to unleash eight disastrous years of stupidity and maliciousness on the world that need no summarization. Republicans followed up that performance by making the dumbest woman in Alaska their candidate for VP and choosing to obstruct the black guy who won the ensuing election at every possible turn while calling him a Kenyan Muslim.
Claiming that the Republicans in Congress have only recently lost their way ignores their failure to hold anyone accountable for Iran-Contra, the rise of Newt Gingrich, his belief in a "civil war" with liberals, and the "speak like Newt" directives of the Party. It ignores the fact that they branded Rush Limbaugh "the majority maker" all the way back in 1994. It ignores the absurd lengths they went to impeach Clinton over a BJ.
My point is that Trump has been a long time coming, and his current reign of idiocy isn't THAT much different from we've gotten out of Republicans in the past. Reason will not return to the Republican party because there was very little reason there to begin with. They ain't gonna follow up Trump with a guy like John Kasich (who, let's be clear, is still a wingnut).
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
What a load of BS.
We’re just find. You are the party with problems. It’s kust a matter of time before Trump destroys it for you.
WordGame wrote:
L L wrote:
If they produced hard evidence, to your satisfaction, that Trump conspired with a foreign government, would you really even care?
Why would he, you don't give a sh*t what Hillary did and if she had won, you still wouldn't. What a lying sore loser you are. The Clintons are as corrupt as they come. I'd take Obama 8 days a week before them...oh wait, all Republicans are now considered racist??? You guys are pathetic and know zero about politics. The Clintons did this and Flaggy will try to flip, twist, bend and lie about the issue. What sad lives you losers must lead. I don't live on this thread, you guys do:)
There's an interesting response.
It has it all. Deflection, defense of criminal activity along with total partiality.
A Trump supporter should not care about a specific criminal offense of treason because someone who had voted for Hillary would presumably not care about what she unspecifically did.
But it proves my point.
Trump supporters do not care if Trump actually did conspire with the Russians to influence the election.
L L wrote:
WordGame wrote:
Why would he, you don't give a sh*t what Hillary did and if she had won, you still wouldn't. What a lying sore loser you are. The Clintons are as corrupt as they come. I'd take Obama 8 days a week before them...oh wait, all Republicans are now considered racist??? You guys are pathetic and know zero about politics. The Clintons did this and Flaggy will try to flip, twist, bend and lie about the issue. What sad lives you losers must lead. I don't live on this thread, you guys do:)
There's an interesting response.
It has it all. Deflection, defense of criminal activity along with total partiality.
Could have been written by you, eh?
I would never write that it's OK for a person I support to do wrong because an opponent did something wrong.
Hillary was wrong to do any Secretary of State work on a private email server.
Of course that was not criminal.
Although, plenty of government people apparently keep doing that. I would not be surprised if Trump has a private email server right now where he discusses national business.
But you want official business done on your business' email.
There is an investigation going on. Evidence is being collected.
Trump is trying to throw road blocks and distractions.
Let's hope the public finds the truth.
L L wrote:
I would never write that it's OK for a person I support to do wrong because an opponent did something wrong.
Hillary was wrong to do any Secretary of State work on a private email server.
Of course that was not criminal.
Although, plenty of government people apparently keep doing that. I would not be surprised if Trump has a private email server right now where he discusses national business.
But you want official business done on your business' email.
There is an investigation going on. Evidence is being collected.
Trump is trying to throw road blocks and distractions.
Let's hope the public finds the truth.
That Clinton's only discretion is that she did work on a private email server is all I need to know about why you support someone and oppose another.
Almost 19,000 posts just a year in - you think this thread will hit 100K by 11/2020?
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
WHO is being a "bit verbose" in his whining?? hmmm.. (not that I can slam anyone for being verbose).
You are way overcomplicating things. You point to all the problems with Dems, specifically their supposed obsession with "minority identity politics at the national level", that supposedly created/allowed the Trump phenomenon, but don't take a moment to explain why he crushed all the other REPUBS first.
Trump's success was a combination of cult of personality, and yes, backlash against not Dems pushing "identity politics", but simply whites feeling their majority power slipping away, some very weak candidates on the R side, and Hillary being nearly universally hated by conservatives. My God, if there was/is one person right wingers hate/hated, it was/is Hillary. And yes, she was very a flawed candidate, who had tons of baggage. People were tired of her, not inspired. She was old news. Trump and Bernie were the "new" candidates, breaths of fresh air in their own weird, unique ways. They were more like Obama was 8 years before than Hillary, by a long shot. Remember, it was supposed to be Hillary's time in 2008, but she was cast aside by Dems for a total newcomer with little experience. It was DEFINITELY supposed to be here turn in 2016, and Bernie, of all people, almost took her down. She was ripe for a loss. And don't forget, despite all that, Trump only won because of the electoral college. 3 million more Americans voted for Clinton.
And then it becomes very hard to take you seriously when you write things like: "Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?! " What is going here is you are lying. Exit polls show he won EIGHT % of the black vote. Not 13. Big difference.
But thanks for taking the time to tell us all that we should stop calling out racism because it might hurt some people's feelings (sure there are fake cries of Racism. See: Glenn Beck on Obama. But the large majority of claims are spot on. Many, MANY right wingers are indeed racist. Period.).
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level.
And what of the Right's identity politics?
The Oracle of Reality wrote: The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much.
Consistently putting party over country wasting taxpayer's time and money on PR stunts.
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
Except for all the brown people, and poor people he doesn't like. Rich people, white christians, and racists are okay. That isn't identity politics?
Your expert analysis leaves out substantial number of voters going third party in battleground States. It also leaves out the simple fact people will vote a deeply flawed candidate in their party so the party has a chance at majority rule. See pedo/racist/misogynist Roy Moore's election results.
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
WHO is being a "bit verbose" in his whining?? hmmm.. (not that I can slam anyone for being verbose).
You are way overcomplicating things. You point to all the problems with Dems, specifically their supposed obsession with "minority identity politics at the national level", that supposedly created/allowed the Trump phenomenon, but don't take a moment to explain why he crushed all the other REPUBS first.
Trump's success was a combination of cult of personality, and yes, backlash against not Dems pushing "identity politics", but simply whites feeling their majority power slipping away, some very weak candidates on the R side, and Hillary being nearly universally hated by conservatives. My God, if there was/is one person right wingers hate/hated, it was/is Hillary. And yes, she was very a flawed candidate, who had tons of baggage. People were tired of her, not inspired. She was old news. Trump and Bernie were the "new" candidates, breaths of fresh air in their own weird, unique ways. They were more like Obama was 8 years before than Hillary, by a long shot. Remember, it was supposed to be Hillary's time in 2008, but she was cast aside by Dems for a total newcomer with little experience. It was DEFINITELY supposed to be here turn in 2016, and Bernie, of all people, almost took her down. She was ripe for a loss. And don't forget, despite all that, Trump only won because of the electoral college. 3 million more Americans voted for Clinton.
And then it becomes very hard to take you seriously when you write things like: "Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?! " What is going here is you are lying. Exit polls show he won EIGHT % of the black vote. Not 13. Big difference.
But thanks for taking the time to tell us all that we should stop calling out racism because it might hurt some people's feelings (sure there are fake cries of Racism. See: Glenn Beck on Obama. But the large majority of claims are spot on. Many, MANY right wingers are indeed racist. Period.).
LIAR.
It was 13%.
L L wrote:
But it proves my point.
Trump supporters do not care if Trump actually did conspire with the Russians to influence the election.
"I Could Stand In the Middle Of Fifth Avenue And Shoot Somebody And I Wouldn't Lose Any Voters"
Every politician has an emotional base. Nixon had them in his second term. But, it takes many more moderate voters to govern at the national level.
Hardloper wrote:
Rigged for Trump wrote:
The economy is starting to sag under Trump; after riding the coattails of Barack Obama, it's starting to show.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/05/business/trump-first-year.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=image&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0&mtrref=www.facebook.com&gwh=005143A836A59F636BA1689EB2F22F15&gwt=payThe stock market is a leading indicator so they should start the graph on election day, not inauguration day. There were a lot of gains as soon as he was elected.
This is correct. Can not deny.
You are a LIAR wrote:
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
WHO is being a "bit verbose" in his whining?? hmmm.. (not that I can slam anyone for being verbose).
You are way overcomplicating things. You point to all the problems with Dems, specifically their supposed obsession with "minority identity politics at the national level", that supposedly created/allowed the Trump phenomenon, but don't take a moment to explain why he crushed all the other REPUBS first.
Trump's success was a combination of cult of personality, and yes, backlash against not Dems pushing "identity politics", but simply whites feeling their majority power slipping away, some very weak candidates on the R side, and Hillary being nearly universally hated by conservatives. My God, if there was/is one person right wingers hate/hated, it was/is Hillary. And yes, she was very a flawed candidate, who had tons of baggage. People were tired of her, not inspired. She was old news. Trump and Bernie were the "new" candidates, breaths of fresh air in their own weird, unique ways. They were more like Obama was 8 years before than Hillary, by a long shot. Remember, it was supposed to be Hillary's time in 2008, but she was cast aside by Dems for a total newcomer with little experience. It was DEFINITELY supposed to be here turn in 2016, and Bernie, of all people, almost took her down. She was ripe for a loss. And don't forget, despite all that, Trump only won because of the electoral college. 3 million more Americans voted for Clinton.
And then it becomes very hard to take you seriously when you write things like: "Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?! " What is going here is you are lying. Exit polls show he won EIGHT % of the black vote. Not 13. Big difference.
But thanks for taking the time to tell us all that we should stop calling out racism because it might hurt some people's feelings (sure there are fake cries of Racism. See: Glenn Beck on Obama. But the large majority of claims are spot on. Many, MANY right wingers are indeed racist. Period.).
LIAR.
It was 13%.
I notice a pattern among the libs here of trying to distort the truth on us poor uneducated folk.
The Oracle of Reality wrote:
Guys, you’re being a bit verbose in your whining/coping lately. And of course, you miss the core reason Trump was able to even exist as a candidate:
The Left - years ago - decided they were going to emphasize minority identity politics at the national level. It was a sound strategy at first, as demographic trends seemed to be working in their favor if they embraced this strategy. In doing so however, it snowballed out of control and became THE ONLY strategy (see 2016 election). Everything else takes a backseat. The opposition is racist (this goes back to at least 2000), so you must vote with us to defeat the evil club of white men.
As 2015 rolled around and you were still patting yourself on the back for getting an interracial man into the White House, it was worse than ever before. You had a woman lined up that had been carefully brought along for two decades. Her token Senate seat was amusing. Wow- such experience! “What a policy wonk she was!” The arrogance was unbelievable. “She would hardly have to campaign” (and she didn’t). “Women aren’t going to abandon their own.” “She looks like me, so I must vote for her”, they assumed women would think.
But you guys over played your hand. The resentment resulting from roughly half the country from being called racist (and sexist, at opportune times) all the time was at astonishingly high levels. The accusers have been so brainwashed and self-righteous, that they don’t realize how ridiculous their actions seem to most of the country. (And I’m not saying this is enough for a lot of Dems to abandon the party; there are other reasons that particular groups - teachers, artists, etc - won’t ever leave the Dem party). Left wing identity politics is their religion. And they’ve become religious fanatics.
Bottom line- The country never united under Obama. It’s not all his fault. The Republicans were in DEFCON mode in 2010 like the Dems are now, and refused to cooperate on much. But if the country had come together, Trump wouldn’t have been able to win. He came along at the right time, with a few basic themes, and shoved all the identity politics and PC culture down the Left’s (including much of the MSM) throats. Everything else is secondary.
And as we know from post-election data, he didn’t do too shabby in parts of the country that surprised even the smartest of Liberals. He won the suburbs and upper middle class. He wasn’t supposed to win that. He won white women! WHAT?! How could that have happened?! He won white college graduates. Mind. Blown. He even got 30% if the Hispanic vote! That’s right, 30% of the group that the Left/MSM first painted as the absolute target of candidate Trump, voted for him. I recall “polls” showing him in the 10% range in 2015-2016. Black men went for him at 13%, the highest in at least three decades to vote Republican. WHAT is going on here?!
You guys need to look in the mirror and admit you’ve been swept up in the strategy of one party in a two party system. You’re pawns. You’re often fighting boogeymen that don’t deserve to be the core of your faith.
See, I have direct quotes and articles I can easily pull up to support my version of the Republican Party's trajectory. You don't have that for for your claims about the Democratic Party's use of "identity politics", because it's incorrect. "Identity politics" is, for the most part, actually just civil rights.
Let's play this out. What were the big "identity politics" issues in 2000 when you claim this trend began? Gay rights was a big one. As the Democratic Party decided that gay people deserved equal protection under the law there was a huge backlash on the Conservative side. Focus on the Family and other evangelical outfits were wingeing on and on about family values and the evil of homosexuality ("IT WILL BE THE END OF CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT!!!"), even blaming gays for... natural disasters. California passed prop 22. There were a series of attempts to create constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. Republicans were on the wrong side of history and they damn sure haven't gotten over it. "Identity politics" wasn't to blame for that rift, theocratic beliefs and bigotry were.
What else happened around 2000? 9/11 is a good one. Everything became "Americanized". Freedom Fries, Freedom Toast. All of the liberals were labeled traitors and cowards for opposing George Bush's patriotic Middle Eastern adventure. And if they opposed things like racially profiling Arabs or monitoring mosques in the name of national security or being mean to Muslims who lived here, well then they were secret Muslim sympathizers. (The Republican Party sure got a lot of mileage out of that one didn't they?) I mean, DiscoGary has been adamant that Muslims are literally incapable of co-existing with democracy. Are you not listening to the things conservatives say they believe? Again, this isn't "identity politics", it's civil rights.
How about abortion? W. Shrub was bigly opposed to abortion, which had been an established constitutional right for about 30 years. He targeted abortion funds domestically (Planned Parenthood, boogety boogety! Conservatives sure got a lot of mileage out of that one, didn't they?) and restricted US aid from going to any international health organization that provided abortion services (take THAT global poverty), he restricted available procedures, and he had his nice church friends on the TV calling liberals and women who received abortions baby killers. The subsequent feminist backlash had nothing to do with "identity politics", it was pushing back, yet again, against conservative theocracy.
I could go on. In any case, I thought Clinton was an absolutely terrible candidate because I knew, fair or not, that she had too much baggage. But she got one thing absolutely right: you can toss about half of Trump's supporters into a basket of deplorables. I'm sorry it hurts their feelings to be called out on their rasci.. sorry, *culturalist*, theocratic beliefs. I'm sorry it makes moderates sad to think that their nice, smiling neighbors might be kind of bad people. But after a year of Trump, there's really no denying it anymore. Trump is mean, and a bigot, and willful ignoramus, and that's what people LIKE about him. When his supporters say "he says what I'm thinking" they mean that they think Mexicans are violent rapists and that black immigrants should go back to their "huts" in Africa. I'm not worried about alienating them. The primary reason Democrats lost in 2016 was because their voters were complacent, not because racists got their feelings hurt. Everyone just assumed that Clinton would win. (Btw, the secondary reason Democrats lost is that the "liberal" media played down the legitimate Trump-Russia story and played up the non-scandal EMAILZ story leading up to the election). They won't be complacent in the 2018 elections, assuming Republicans allow us to have them...
