This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
There was no significant effort by Dr. Fauci or the CDC (Walensky) to inform the public about obesity increasing the risks of hospitalization or death from covid.
Until his retirement, Dr. Fauci was the spokesperson for steps to prevent COVID. Throughout 2020 and 2021, he was cited on TV several times a day. From April 2020, his mantra was "mask and social distance" until the vaccine came out in Dec 2020 and then his mantra became "get vaccinated, mask and social distance."
I challenge you to find one time. One. Single. Time. When Dr. Fauci urged people who were obese to lose weight.
I've already done the search. I could not find a single interview where Dr. Fauci urged people who were obese to lose weight.
I did find one... one... interview where it came up. Fauci was asked directly about obesity, but instead of urging people to lose weight to reduce the risk from covid, HE MADE EXCUSES FOR THEIR OBESITY!
Since others reading this thread will be curious. Here's the actual transcript excerpt.
----22 March 2021---
Hewitt: ...ought we to begin now an effort to get people to lose weight?
Fauci: Yeah. I mean, obesity is an epidemic in this country, Hugh. I mean, that’s really one of the unfortunate situations. And there’s so many reasons for that, you know, that date back from the time a person is a child, the kind of diet that they get exposed to. That’s something, and it’s particularly disproportionate in certain demographic groups. I mean, African-American and Latinx population clearly, almost certainly related to the lack of accessibility early on when they’re children of a completely varied and healthy diet.
Source: Dr. Anthony Fauci On Variants, Immunity, New Therapies and Reaching the Skeptical, 22 Mar 2021, Hugh Hewitt interview.
Effectively, Fauci is saying that "you may be fat, but it's not your fault." What Fauci should have said not once but a thousand times. "The government is doing what it can, but every person needs to accept that they are responsible for their own health decisions and that includes not just getting vaccinated and wearing a mask; it means losing weight if you're obese because obesity greatly increases your risk of hospitalization or worse from covid."
How many lives could have been saved if Fauci had taken the 18 seconds it takes to say that every time he was on TV?
Meanwhile, a Harvard Medical School article reported that 39% of adults gained weight in the first year or so of the pandemic. 10% gained more than 12.5 pounds. 2% (that's 5M people!) gained more than 27.5 pounds.
The key is to not be old af then. Nobody cares about old people that’s why republicans want to take their Medicare and social security away.
How many lives could have been saved if Fauci had taken the 18 seconds it takes to say that every time he was on TV?
...
Back of the envelope I get something like 150k US excess deaths avoided had Fauci been able to magically eliminate obesity.
So there's an upper limit that would have to be scaled down to account for messaging effectiveness and the time period for it to happen.
As above no one is denying US obesity is an enormous problem. What I'm struggling with is why you seem fixated on messaging that, realistically, has largely failed over decades to the apparent exclusion of something that was demonstratively effective.
I find it funny the antivaxxers are now going with 'the CDC should have told people not to be old and fat,' when they quite literally did that for like 18 months until we had good vaccine coverage -- and continue to do so when recommending new boosters to those people specifically.
This isn't even a misunderstanding, antivaxxers are just fabricating claims because they've been so hilariously owned.
No.
There was no significant effort by Dr. Fauci or the CDC (Walensky) to inform the public about obesity increasing the risks of hospitalization or death from covid.
Until his retirement, Dr. Fauci was the spokesperson for steps to prevent COVID. Throughout 2020 and 2021, he was cited on TV several times a day. From April 2020, his mantra was "mask and social distance" until the vaccine came out in Dec 2020 and then his mantra became "get vaccinated, mask and social distance."
I challenge you to find one time. One. Single. Time. When Dr. Fauci urged people who were obese to lose weight.
I've already done the search. I could not find a single interview where Dr. Fauci urged people who were obese to lose weight.
I did find one... one... interview where it came up. Fauci was asked directly about obesity, but instead of urging people to lose weight to reduce the risk from covid, HE MADE EXCUSES FOR THEIR OBESITY!
Since others reading this thread will be curious. Here's the actual transcript excerpt.
----22 March 2021---
Hewitt: ...ought we to begin now an effort to get people to lose weight?
Fauci: Yeah. I mean, obesity is an epidemic in this country, Hugh. I mean, that’s really one of the unfortunate situations. And there’s so many reasons for that, you know, that date back from the time a person is a child, the kind of diet that they get exposed to. That’s something, and it’s particularly disproportionate in certain demographic groups. I mean, African-American and Latinx population clearly, almost certainly related to the lack of accessibility early on when they’re children of a completely varied and healthy diet.
Source: Dr. Anthony Fauci On Variants, Immunity, New Therapies and Reaching the Skeptical, 22 Mar 2021, Hugh Hewitt interview.
Effectively, Fauci is saying that "you may be fat, but it's not your fault." What Fauci should have said not once but a thousand times. "The government is doing what it can, but every person needs to accept that they are responsible for their own health decisions and that includes not just getting vaccinated and wearing a mask; it means losing weight if you're obese because obesity greatly increases your risk of hospitalization or worse from covid."
How many lives could have been saved if Fauci had taken the 18 seconds it takes to say that every time he was on TV?
Meanwhile, a Harvard Medical School article reported that 39% of adults gained weight in the first year or so of the pandemic. 10% gained more than 12.5 pounds. 2% (that's 5M people!) gained more than 27.5 pounds.
Losing weight is a huge challenge for most people. Most people who are overweight have tried to lose weight. There is constant messaging about how obesity is a massive health risk across the board.
You’ve decided that because one person didn’t say exactly what you wanted them to, the CDC as a whole failed despite all the links you’ve been shown where they clearly acknowledge the exact risk you are concerned with.
There are plenty of reasonable complaints about the CDC, this is not one of them. Telling people it’s their fault for being overweight does absolutely nothing to help them lose weight. They already know that. It’s starting to feel like you just want the CDC to shame fat people.
How many lives could have been saved if Fauci had taken the 18 seconds it takes to say that every time he was on TV?
...
Back of the envelope I get something like 150k US excess deaths avoided had Fauci been able to magically eliminate obesity.
So there's an upper limit that would have to be scaled down to account for messaging effectiveness and the time period for it to happen.
As above no one is denying US obesity is an enormous problem. What I'm struggling with is why you seem fixated on messaging that, realistically, has largely failed over decades to the apparent exclusion of something that was demonstratively effective.
Of note, the vaccines saved about 10x the deaths that eliminating obesity would have. I think the CDC focused on the right level of intervention.
Back of the envelope I get something like 150k US excess deaths avoided had Fauci been able to magically eliminate obesity.
So there's an upper limit that would have to be scaled down to account for messaging effectiveness and the time period for it to happen.
As above no one is denying US obesity is an enormous problem. What I'm struggling with is why you seem fixated on messaging that, realistically, has largely failed over decades to the apparent exclusion of something that was demonstratively effective.
Of note, the vaccines saved about 10x the deaths that eliminating obesity would have. I think the CDC focused on the right level of intervention.
Nah bro. A keto diet and listening to Joe Rogan is the way.
How many lives could have been saved if Fauci had taken the 18 seconds it takes to say that every time he was on TV?
...
Back of the envelope I get something like 150k US excess deaths avoided had Fauci been able to magically eliminate obesity.
So there's an upper limit that would have to be scaled down to account for messaging effectiveness and the time period for it to happen.
As above no one is denying US obesity is an enormous problem. What I'm struggling with is why you seem fixated on messaging that, realistically, has largely failed over decades to the apparent exclusion of something that was demonstratively effective.
It wasn’t just obesity man. It was obesity, age, and comorbidities. That’s 95% of your excess deaths. But the CDC and NIH’s most “important” messaging was the virus came from bats/pangolins, get vaccinated or you will lose your job, and natural immunity isn’t a thing. That’s what they cared about most, that was the official narrative. As a result, they’ve lost credibility with a lot of the public. That’s on them. I know you will never see it or accept it.
You read Osler’s Web yet? Talk about a f*ck up and reason to look askance at these “scientists.” Maybe you will figure out why people don’t trust official data.
This post was edited 59 seconds after it was posted.
Losing weight is a huge challenge for most people. Most people who are overweight have tried to lose weight. There is constant messaging about how obesity is a massive health risk across the board.
You’ve decided that because one person didn’t say exactly what you wanted them to, the CDC as a whole failed despite all the links you’ve been shown where they clearly acknowledge the exact risk you are concerned with.
There are plenty of reasonable complaints about the CDC, this is not one of them. Telling people it’s their fault for being overweight does absolutely nothing to help them lose weight. They already know that. It’s starting to feel like you just want the CDC to shame fat people.
We saw massive cultural and behavioral changes during COVID because, in part, the risk from covid was imminent. I think that with persistent and creative messaging, the risks of obesity could be moved from the distant future to the next trip to the supermarket. "If you mask and do everything you should and still get covid, YOU COULD DIE if you're obese."
Let me give you an analogy. I do rental repairs. Let's assume that I can do 70% of the repairs with a hammer and screwdriver. Should I just quit and say that's good enough? Or, should I use more tools to get more of the job done?
One of my complaints about the CDC/Fauci is that they only used 3 tools in their toolbox: vaccines, masks, and social distancing. The CDC had additional tools that they refused to use.
A successful obesity campaign might have resulted in 1 in 5 obese losing weight and 1 in 10 dropping below a BMI of 30. By my estimates, that could have saved 20k to 60K lives.
Yes, it's less than the vaccine, but surely everyone would agree that those lives were worth saving.
Similarly, there were multiple other initiatives that were ignored by the CDC in 2020 that could have saved even more lives.
It is outrageous that COVID deaths/Capita were higher in the US than in any other developed nation. That failure falls on the NIH, the CDC, and the former Chief Medical Officer to the President of the United States, Anthony Fauci.
Back of the envelope I get something like 150k US excess deaths avoided had Fauci been able to magically eliminate obesity.
So there's an upper limit that would have to be scaled down to account for messaging effectiveness and the time period for it to happen.
As above no one is denying US obesity is an enormous problem. What I'm struggling with is why you seem fixated on messaging that, realistically, has largely failed over decades to the apparent exclusion of something that was demonstratively effective.
It wasn’t just obesity man. It was obesity, age, and comorbidities. That’s 95% of your excess deaths. But the CDC and NIH’s most “important” messaging was the virus came from bats/pangolins, get vaccinated or you will lose your job, and natural immunity isn’t a thing. That’s what they cared about most, that was the official narrative. As a result, they’ve lost credibility with a lot of the public. That’s on them. I know you will never see it or accept it.
You read Osler’s Web yet? Talk about a f*ck up and reason to look askance at these “scientists.” Maybe you will figure out why people don’t trust official data.
It was not 95% of excess deaths. Thats just wrong. Vaccination saved the lives of countless healthy people. Just look at the Delta wave states.
Inconvenient but true - sorry to burst your bubble.
And enough with the socialist “private companies can’t make rules about their health risks concerning their employees.” Find a new job or stop complaining to the state.
It wasn’t just obesity man. It was obesity, age, and comorbidities. That’s 95% of your excess deaths. But the CDC and NIH’s most “important” messaging was the virus came from bats/pangolins, get vaccinated or you will lose your job, and natural immunity isn’t a thing. That’s what they cared about most, that was the official narrative. As a result, they’ve lost credibility with a lot of the public. That’s on them. I know you will never see it or accept it.
You read Osler’s Web yet? Talk about a f*ck up and reason to look askance at these “scientists.” Maybe you will figure out why people don’t trust official data.
It was not 95% of excess deaths. Thats just wrong. Vaccination saved the lives of countless healthy people. Just look at the Delta wave states.
Inconvenient but true - sorry to burst your bubble.
And enough with the socialist “private companies can’t make rules about their health risks concerning their employees.” Find a new job or stop complaining to the state.
Why do you even keep up the lunacy. It’s not a vaccine. that’s a marketing ploy you chomped down on.
Losing weight is a huge challenge for most people. Most people who are overweight have tried to lose weight. There is constant messaging about how obesity is a massive health risk across the board.
You’ve decided that because one person didn’t say exactly what you wanted them to, the CDC as a whole failed despite all the links you’ve been shown where they clearly acknowledge the exact risk you are concerned with.
There are plenty of reasonable complaints about the CDC, this is not one of them. Telling people it’s their fault for being overweight does absolutely nothing to help them lose weight. They already know that. It’s starting to feel like you just want the CDC to shame fat people.
We saw massive cultural and behavioral changes during COVID because, in part, the risk from covid was imminent. I think that with persistent and creative messaging, the risks of obesity could be moved from the distant future to the next trip to the supermarket. "If you mask and do everything you should and still get covid, YOU COULD DIE if you're obese."
Let me give you an analogy. I do rental repairs. Let's assume that I can do 70% of the repairs with a hammer and screwdriver. Should I just quit and say that's good enough? Or, should I use more tools to get more of the job done?
One of my complaints about the CDC/Fauci is that they only used 3 tools in their toolbox: vaccines, masks, and social distancing. The CDC had additional tools that they refused to use.
A successful obesity campaign might have resulted in 1 in 5 obese losing weight and 1 in 10 dropping below a BMI of 30. By my estimates, that could have saved 20k to 60K lives.
Yes, it's less than the vaccine, but surely everyone would agree that those lives were worth saving.
Similarly, there were multiple other initiatives that were ignored by the CDC in 2020 that could have saved even more lives.
It is outrageous that COVID deaths/Capita were higher in the US than in any other developed nation. That failure falls on the NIH, the CDC, and the former Chief Medical Officer to the President of the United States, Anthony Fauci.
Losing weight requires orders of magnitude more effort than vaccination, masking, or social measures. It’s often the hardest thing many people try to do - and fail. It simply is not a matter of motivation or awareness - at all. The CDC addressed the issue many times, you are free to wish they did more but the benefit would have been marginal from what we know about time scales of weight loss.
A large part of the US bad death results are because antivaxxer narratives convinced millions to avoid the vaccine.
Fisky, the best thing you could have done is to go against those spreading vaccine skeptical propaganda. That would have saved waaaay more lives at the margin than more reminders about weight loss.
It was not 95% of excess deaths. Thats just wrong. Vaccination saved the lives of countless healthy people. Just look at the Delta wave states.
Inconvenient but true - sorry to burst your bubble.
And enough with the socialist “private companies can’t make rules about their health risks concerning their employees.” Find a new job or stop complaining to the state.
Why do you even keep up the lunacy. It’s not a vaccine. that’s a marketing ploy you chomped down on.
Compelling argument with lots of evidence! JK just standard antivaxxer baseless babbling.
We saw massive cultural and behavioral changes during COVID because, in part, the risk from covid was imminent. I think that with persistent and creative messaging, the risks of obesity could be moved from the distant future to the next trip to the supermarket. "If you mask and do everything you should and still get covid, YOU COULD DIE if you're obese."
Let me give you an analogy. I do rental repairs. Let's assume that I can do 70% of the repairs with a hammer and screwdriver. Should I just quit and say that's good enough? Or, should I use more tools to get more of the job done?
One of my complaints about the CDC/Fauci is that they only used 3 tools in their toolbox: vaccines, masks, and social distancing. The CDC had additional tools that they refused to use.
A successful obesity campaign might have resulted in 1 in 5 obese losing weight and 1 in 10 dropping below a BMI of 30. By my estimates, that could have saved 20k to 60K lives.
Yes, it's less than the vaccine, but surely everyone would agree that those lives were worth saving.
Similarly, there were multiple other initiatives that were ignored by the CDC in 2020 that could have saved even more lives.
It is outrageous that COVID deaths/Capita were higher in the US than in any other developed nation. That failure falls on the NIH, the CDC, and the former Chief Medical Officer to the President of the United States, Anthony Fauci.
Losing weight requires orders of magnitude more effort than vaccination, masking, or social measures. It’s often the hardest thing many people try to do - and fail. It simply is not a matter of motivation or awareness - at all. The CDC addressed the issue many times, you are free to wish they did more but the benefit would have been marginal from what we know about time scales of weight loss.
A large part of the US bad death results are because antivaxxer narratives convinced millions to avoid the vaccine.
Fisky, the best thing you could have done is to go against those spreading vaccine skeptical propaganda. That would have saved waaaay more lives at the margin than more reminders about weight loss.
Best thing he could’ve done was recommend vitamin D and virucidal nasal sprays (way more effective than masking), along with an aggressive campaign to lose weight for people who were unwilling to get vaccinated or before vaccines were available. Oh wait, he did.
Yep, worked for me. Natural immunity is a thing, to the chagrin of the 2020-2022 CDC. And you of course.
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
Losing weight requires orders of magnitude more effort than vaccination, masking, or social measures. It’s often the hardest thing many people try to do - and fail. It simply is not a matter of motivation or awareness - at all. The CDC addressed the issue many times, you are free to wish they did more but the benefit would have been marginal from what we know about time scales of weight loss.
A large part of the US bad death results are because antivaxxer narratives convinced millions to avoid the vaccine.
Fisky, the best thing you could have done is to go against those spreading vaccine skeptical propaganda. That would have saved waaaay more lives at the margin than more reminders about weight loss.
Best thing he could’ve done was recommend vitamin D and virucidal nasal sprays (way more effective than masking), along with an aggressive campaign to lose weight for people who were unwilling to get vaccinated or before vaccines were available. Oh wait, he did.
Yep, worked for me. Natural immunity is a thing, to the chagrin of the 2020-2022 CDC. And you of course.
Vitamin D is a great example of something that sounds great, has tons of associative data, and then when you actually run the trial – the treatment doesn't do anything.
COVID-19 symptoms vary from asymptomatic cases to moderate and severe illness with patients needing hospitalization and intensive care treatment. Vitamin D is associated with severity of viral infections and has an immune-mod...
So basically, the recommendation should be 'don't be deficient in vitamin D' – groundbreaking.
There simply isn't enough evidence on virucidal nasal sprays or the side effects of repeated use (should I demand 10 years of data like you do for mRNA vaccines?) but there's a possibility they could be useful.
I love that you bold unwilling it's like saying "for stupid people we shouldn't tell them to do the best thing, but instead give them other suggestions that aren't as good." No, a public health official has an ethical duty to recommend the safest, most tested, and most protective course of action – i.e. vaccination. If you want other suggestions feel free to pay $60 a month for some blogger to make you feel smart.
Natural immunity is objectively poorer and, obviously carries significant extra risk, just ask Chokervic.
There is no doubt that antivaxxer propaganda killed way, way more people than any of your or fisky's proposed interventions would have saved.
Imagine that, the best thing you could have done is keep your mouth shut. The cheapest, easiest, lowest cost intervention imaginable. But you couldn't do it. Telling.
Best thing he could’ve done was recommend vitamin D and virucidal nasal sprays (way more effective than masking), along with an aggressive campaign to lose weight for people who were unwilling to get vaccinated or before vaccines were available. Oh wait, he did.
Yep, worked for me. Natural immunity is a thing, to the chagrin of the 2020-2022 CDC. And you of course.
Vitamin D is a great example of something that sounds great, has tons of associative data, and then when you actually run the trial – the treatment doesn't do anything.
So basically, the recommendation should be 'don't be deficient in vitamin D' – groundbreaking.
There simply isn't enough evidence on virucidal nasal sprays or the side effects of repeated use (should I demand 10 years of data like you do for mRNA vaccines?) but there's a possibility they could be useful.
I love that you bold unwilling it's like saying "for stupid people we shouldn't tell them to do the best thing, but instead give them other suggestions that aren't as good." No, a public health official has an ethical duty to recommend the safest, most tested, and most protective course of action – i.e. vaccination. If you want other suggestions feel free to pay $60 a month for some blogger to make you feel smart.
Natural immunity is objectively poorer and, obviously carries significant extra risk, just ask Chokervic.
There is no doubt that antivaxxer propaganda killed way, way more people than any of your or fisky's proposed interventions would have saved.
Imagine that, the best thing you could have done is keep your mouth shut. The cheapest, easiest, lowest cost intervention imaginable. But you couldn't do it. Telling.
Why would a Dr. George Fareed, for example, “keep his mouth shut,” when he could and did help stave off death for patients before a vaccine was available or for patients who were unwilling to get vaccinated, for whatever reason? It would’ve been a dereliction of duty not to try to help, but, the poor soul had to defy fools like you who would try to take his license before letting him try to be a doctor and save patients. Save patients he did.
Vitamin D isn’t a “treatment.” It was just a damn good idea to start slamming at the beginning of Covid because most Americans are and were deficient. There are many studies showing vitamin D above certain, high levels, very much mitigated the course of the disease. Of course, just a spurious correlation for you, but Djokovic and long COVID is most decidedly not spurious in your enlightened world.
Also, there are multiple studies on virucidal nasal sprays to reduce viral load and mitigate disease. Again though, not “real” studies because no incentive or impetus to really do them. Tons and tons of observational data shows you’re simply wrong about natural immunity. Yes, if it were only Omicron and nothing before it, but must people had prior immunity from alpha and/or delta. For those who had already acquired immunity this way, the vaccines were unnecessary, except, perhaps in the riskiest groups, which you’ve previously said we couldn’t possibly define before you switched your position to we can define them and they should be getting boosters every four months.
You are boring and stale and selfish. That you would try to shut down a Fareed or Urso. Incredible. You would have been better to just keep your mouth shut.
Losing weight requires orders of magnitude more effort than vaccination, masking, or social measures. It’s often the hardest thing many people try to do - and fail. It simply is not a matter of motivation or awareness - at all. The CDC addressed the issue many times, you are free to wish they did more but the benefit would have been marginal from what we know about time scales of weight loss.
A large part of the US bad death results are because antivaxxer narratives convinced millions to avoid the vaccine.
Fisky, the best thing you could have done is to go against those spreading vaccine skeptical propaganda. That would have saved waaaay more lives at the margin than more reminders about weight loss.
Best thing he could’ve done was recommend vitamin D and virucidal nasal sprays (way more effective than masking), along with an aggressive campaign to lose weight for people who were unwilling to get vaccinated or before vaccines were available. Oh wait, he did.
Yep, worked for me. Natural immunity is a thing, to the chagrin of the 2020-2022 CDC. And you of course.
How is your pretend daughter?? Could she use the agressive campaign to lose weight?
not to mention the same idiots complaining about the vaccine are the same idiots who vilified Michelle Obama for suggesting heathy eating and post anger filled stories about "Biden coming for your hamburgers"
not to mention the same idiots complaining about the vaccine are the same idiots who vilified Michelle Obama for suggesting heathy eating and post anger filled stories about "Biden coming for your hamburgers"
Nobody vilified Michelle O for suggesting healthy eating. She was absolutely correct. But it’s not the same situation. Fisky is saying when your life, acutely, absolutely might have depended on it (and for hundreds of thousands it did) then the CDC & NIH’s messaging should’ve been it was as equally, if not more, important as getting vaccinated for those who hadn’t acquired some type of immunity.
not to mention the same idiots complaining about the vaccine are the same idiots who vilified Michelle Obama for suggesting heathy eating and post anger filled stories about "Biden coming for your hamburgers"
Nobody vilified Michelle O for suggesting healthy eating. She was absolutely correct. But it’s not the same situation. Fisky is saying when your life, acutely, absolutely might have depended on it (and for hundreds of thousands it did) then the CDC & NIH’s messaging should’ve been it was as equally, if not more, important as getting vaccinated for those who hadn’t acquired some type of immunity.
We spend billions trying to combat obesity. For decades. This whole argument is just “I am very smart” vibes. You don’t know some hidden secret. OBVIOUSLY doctors know patients are at higher risk for everything if they are obese. Basically nothing we’ve done is a good intervention for obesity! Those methods that do work take a long time and have high failure rates.
Vaccination is cheap, effective and takes 20 min. “Just lose weight” is trite BS. GLP1R agonists seem to be changing the game. The arrived too late for your COVID cure though.
Let’s say you’re a doctor with a 20 min slot for an annual physical.
Should you spend 10 min lecturing them about being obese and the risks (zero evidence such doctor reminders work) or tell me to get vaccinated to avoid X risk.
If you only care about moralizing and virtue signaling you push for the former. If you care about outcomes you do the latter.
