Sunday Mail Has More Details on Paula's Blood Values and Off Scores + News She'll Put up £1m for an MRI lie detector

rjm33 wrote:

Stefan Matschiner was also manager of doper Adrienne Herzog of the Netherlands. Just another coincidence.

"treated for malaria".

Hey Fred...How do you like my conspiracy story now?

Yes, definitely a conspiracy.

"treated for malaria" = code for I'm on the good stuff

I think it says something that Canova no longer comments on Radcliffe. She is beyond dirty at this point and it will come out in full force within 5 years.

A normal person would only increase hemoglobin levels by an average of 4 to 5% after 4 weeks training at altitude. Of course managers can help by giving "technical support" to get increases of 10% or 12% or more in hemoglobin values in only 4 weeks.

Of course the runner from the Netherlands also told me that he uses an altitude chamber to sleep in at night that is set at 3000m (~9860ft.)

And once again I responded with..."I bet you do."

Fred, you also left out the best part of the Marti Vainio story back in 1984; the year Alberto Cova won the gold (remember that Renato Canova has already stated previously that Alberto Cova did do autologous blood transfusions) and Marti Vainio of Finland won silver in the 10k at the Los Angeles Olympics, but then tested positive for an anabolic steroid and was banned.

Vainio did go off the anabolic steroid metenolone in time to avoid testing positive, probably 4 to 6 weeks before the Olympics. This would also be the approximate time for removal of blood to store for use before the race as an autologous blood transfusion, while giving the body enough time to rebuild the RBCs and hemoglobin before the race, that have been lost by the blood removal.

However, Marti Vainio was not a very smart doper, since when he did the autologous blood transfusion before the 10k...his blood still had the anabolic steroid metenolone in it. The blood was removed when he was still on metenolone from 4 to 6 weeks before!

This is also my personal guess as to how Alberto Contador tested positive for Clenbuterol at the TDF.

You can also see how "lunatic doctors" could tell Kenyan runners that they had problems with their blood, for example..."malaria" (which can cause anemia!), that would need to be "treated" by blood removal, blood testing, and blood "treatment". The blood would then be reinfused into the runner before an important race as part of the "treatment". Injections of a "medicine"...for example EPO injections... would also be given to the Kenyan runners as a "treatment"...to runners who were never sick at all to begin with.

They were already very good, clean, natural, and YOUNG Kenyan runners... born, living, and training at altitude...with no foreign coaches, doctors or managers from Italy or the Netherlands providing "technical and medical support"... for the young and naturally gifted Kenyan runners before the year 1991... and up until the present day in the year 2016.

How do you like the conspiracy story now Fred?

hmmm

I hope you read this entire article about Dr. Gabriele Rosa.

Tergat gives a glowing appreciation of Rosa's medical skills and personal hospitality at a time he was struggling with injury:

“Come to Italy,” Dr. Rosa told me, “and you'll see, we'll heal you. It's useless to waste more time, we need to do thorough examinations to find out what's wrong and determine a therapy. If you don't cure it, your career could end before it even started.” The reason I accepted was the conviction that he didn't want money from me. That he did it because he had the ambition to try to coach me, like he coached Moses Tanui. And he convinced me immediately, as soon as I arrived in Italy. He received and treated me like I was one of the family, as if I had been his third child. He picked me up at the airport, took me to his home, he gave me a room to sleep in and we even shared a bathroom. We all ate at the same table, and not once did I feel like a stranger in that house.

http://www.runnersworld.com/rt-web-exclusive/dr-rosa-in-his-own-words

just a coincidence

rjm33 wrote:

.his blood still had the anabolic steroid metenolone in it. The blood was removed when he was still on metenolone from 4 to 6 weeks before!

This is also my personal guess as to how Alberto Contador tested positive for Clenbuterol

How do you like the conspiracy story now Fred?

hmmm

Clen is a beta agonist. The riders were using it to get the fat off their bodies to increase the power to weight ratio

I imagine you can just look at someone to see what they are using.

Renato. I think we all know that Alex Schwazer from Italy did not just consult Dr. Michele Ferrari for training advice on decreasing volume and increasing quality. Here is an excerpt from your previous post:

In 2010, Sandro started to complain with Schwazer about his interpretation of training, and Schwazer started to look at Michele Ferrari for some technical advice about a system with less volume of training, and more quality. Sandro decided to quit to coach him, and after two months became National coach of China, producing the Olympic Champion 2012 and continuing to win, in clean way, with Chinese (last year 20 km with women). So, we know very well Schwazer was completely clean (also in his mind) when won Olympics. He was morally subjugated by Russian athletes, who proposed him to change citizenship and to join their Group in Saransk, where doping was at the base of their training. After his ban, Schwazer decided to quit everything, but more than one year ago he felt again the will and the motivation to use hard training, and had in his mind to find a way for redemption. So, he contacted the most known person in Italy working against doping, Sandro Donati (also consultant of WADA), asking to become his coach,

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6881090&page=87#ixzz468j5H8rP

Here is an article in French which has email excerpts between Alex Schwazer and Dr. Michele Ferrari going back to 2009 and 2010.

The topic under discussion in their emails is the use of intravenous microdosing of EPO.

http://www.lemonde.fr/athletisme/article/2015/12/18/le-grand-projet-de-sandro-donati-et-alex-schwazer_4834669_1616661.html

Your statement about Alex Schwazer and Dr. Michele Ferrari is another completely false statement. Please explain the contradiction Renato.

We both agree that Rita Jeptoo got weak mind disease when she tested positive for EPO, and that you have known her since 1999, if I remember correctly.

I can tell that Rita has spent a lot of time in Italy. Here is a photo of Rita on the way to her doping hearing in Nairobi. She will be eligible for competition in late October 2016.

http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-doping-ban-looms-for-kenyan-marathon-champ-rita-jeptoo-2015-1

Fred! You remember back in 1992 when Paula Radcliffe won the IAAF Junior World Cross Country championships in March 1992, just a few months after she was first diagnosed with a medical condition called anemia in Jan 1992.

Paula was 5 seconds ahead of Wang Junxia of China.

Junior women's race (4.005 km)

Individual:

Rank Athlete Country Time

1 Paula Radcliffe United Kingdom 13:30

2 Wang Junxia China 13:35

3 Lydia Cheromei Kenya 13:43

4 Jennifer Clague United Kingdom 13:44

5 Anja Smolders Belgium 13:58

6 Janeth Caizalitín Ecuador 14:00

7 Elena Cosoveanu Romania 14:02

8 Zhang Lirong China 14:03

9 Gete Wami Ethiopia 14:04

10 Denisa Costescu Romania 14:05

The Olympics were held in Barcelona, Spain in 1992.

Just another coincidence.

fred wrote:

rjm33 wrote:

Stefan Matschiner was also manager of doper Adrienne Herzog of the Netherlands. Just another coincidence.

"treated for malaria".

Hey Fred...How do you like my conspiracy story now?

Yes, definitely a conspiracy.

"treated for malaria" = code for I'm on the good stuff

https://www.instagram.com/p/BClq22BwhT9/

Hey Fred...What is your personal opinion on the severity of my weak mind condition?

Think clearly for yourself before you come to a personal conclusion.

[quote]cleans wrote:

This thread has now got me very confused.

If a PED like EPO doesn't work for elite distance runners, why is it regarded as a PED by the IAAF, and why are experienced, successful athletes like Jeptoo taking it?

On the Purdy tables, Paula's 2:15:25 is equivalent to : 3:41.8 1500m, 8:00 3k, 13:53 5k, and 29:05 for 10k; so Paula was always better than Wang Junxia, both in 1992 and in 2003.

Both were also better than ALL Kenyans and ALL Ethiopians born, living, and performing elite training at altitude. Both were also better than ALL doping athletes in all the countries of the world.

just a coincidence

Rjm, I went to read the article of Le Monde. Where do you find the new that Alex went in touch with Michele Ferrari in 2009 ? Maybe you gave the link with something else, or your ability to read French is not very good, so you can build news using your imagination..... Please, explain me !

Fred...After the blood is withdrawn for storage, the runner is then anemic for a time after, which will be seen as low RBCs, low Hct., and low Hb levels in the runner on a blood test. This will also cause the OFF score to go very low, such as Liliya's OFF score of 35!?...which must of been measured soon after the removal of blood; a rough estimate would be a Hb level of about 10g/dl to 11g/dl to give that low of an OFF score, which are very anemic Hb levels.

EPO use after blood removal will speed the recovery of RBCs and Hb levels in less time than normal.

Rinse and repeat.

Renato Canova wrote:

Rjm, I went to read the article of Le Monde. Where do you find the new that Alex went in touch with Michele Ferrari in 2009 ? Maybe you gave the link with something else, or your ability to read French is not very good, so you can build news using your imagination..... Please, explain me !

» Michele Ferrari, le célèbre préparateur de Lance Armstrong à qui Alex Schwazer avait donné 20 000 euros en 2009 pour qu’il s’occupe de son entraînement sur les conseils de son ancien sponsor, un confiseur bien connu ?

Tout y est : les discussions avec ses adversaires russes aux Mondiaux de Daegu, en 2011, qui lui proposent de prendre leur nationalité pour venir se changer le sang avec eux à la frontière de la Tchétchénie ; les recherches sur Internet pour trouver de la testostérone ; les voyages à Antalya, en Turquie, pour se procurer de l’EPO ; les conseils du « dottor mito » pour se faire des piqûres en intraveineuses ; les séries de microdoses qu’il s’injecte lui-même, et la fédération qui sait mais ne dit rien.

« Aujourd’hui, Alex est l’athlète le plus contrôlé du monde », assure Sandro ­Donati. Depuis le début de leur colla­boration, en avril, le marcheur a subi pas moins de 23 prélèvements sanguins et trois urinaires. Tous les résultats sont transmis au Comité olympique ­national ­italien (CONI) et à l’Agence mondiale ­antidopage.

En savoir plus sur

Renato. Can you see the part about the payment of 20,00 euros in 2009 to Dr. Michele Ferrari by Alex Schwazer... and the part about intravenous microdoses of EPO?

just a coincidence?

Ok, I read the article again and I found the phrase you wrote in the next post. My first reading was superficial, and very fast.

However, Sandro Donati asked Alex Schwazer to be TOTALLY collaborative with the Magistrate in Bolzano, otherwise he NEVER accepted to coach him, and during his hearing Schwazer clearly explained he went Michele Ferrari for having infos about his training system, analysis of his "aerobic engine", and some info about the effects of PEDs, but was not yet ready for jumping the line. So, when he won Beijing was clean, and also when won silver in 20 km at European Championships 2010, and this means my infos were not wrong, but correct, because (how it's possible to see in the article) everything started really after Daegu 2011.

Renato...Do you still think I am a psychotic with "no clue"?

Renato Canova wrote:

Rjm, I went to read the article of Le Monde. Where do you find the new that Alex went in touch with Michele Ferrari in 2009 ? Maybe you gave the link with something else, or your ability to read French is not very good, so you can build news using your imagination..... Please, explain me !

Hey Fred...

I have a real bad feeling about things in Kenya.

https://citizentv.co.ke/sports/uhuru-fetes-athletes-as-he-assures-doping-bill-passage-122199/

I think your posts speak volumes.But as voluminous as they are, there are still gaps: lots of clues about doping research by Conconi and Ferrari, lots of clues about doping in cycling, lots of clues about Dutch and Italian management, some examples of convicted dopers and their respective coaches/management, but very little tying any of these disparate clues together, beyond nationality and time.One clue that speaks against sophisticated doping orchestrated by European management is that most of the recent busts are for an old, easily detectable, steroid.

rjm33 wrote:

Renato...Do you still think I am a psychotic with "no clue"?

How naive does Renato think people are? He started doping AFTER winning the Olympics.... how convenient.

Athletes take drugs based on "beliefs" that it can work for them, and not based on "proof" that it will. Jeptoo took EPO because someone (her husband?) "believed" in it.In the case of the marathon, real data regarding the "PE" benefit of any PED is scarce, if not non-existent. The strongest arguments that EPO works in the marathon are "proof by example" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example for the limitations of this kind of proof), which at best show that EPO can work, but these examples cannot always be generalized to all cases.Estimates of 3 to 4 minutes benefit from EPO for a marathon is something never reliably isolated and observed and measured in all of marathon history, for anyone at any level. There are measures from short term studies based on "well trained" subjects over 3K or 5K. But 3K, or 5K, or even 10K is not the marathon -- they have different demands and limitations.

cleans wrote:

This thread has now got me very confused.

If a PED like EPO doesn't work for elite distance runners, why is it regarded as a PED by the IAAF, and why are experienced, successful athletes like Jeptoo taking it?

What do you mean by "no longer"? Did Canova ever comment on Radcliffe?An alternative thought is that the Paula angle of the story is actually long dead (maybe even DOA) for everyone with a real name in the sport.It's even dead for the UK media, the ones who added Paula to the story, after the last WADA IC report failed to be concerned.It's only kept on life support in this anonymous message board by people with no name. (According to some, with special thanks to misguided me -- who simply said the leaked data is not strong enough evidence to provide support, and there remain plausible non-doping scenarios.)Unless some new real evidence comes along, who knows, like blood bags from Paula linked to Dr. Fuentes, or an interview with Oprah, this "justice will come in full force" talk is just wishful thinking.

dlk wrote:

I think it says something that Canova no longer comments on Radcliffe. She is beyond dirty at this point and it will come out in full force within 5 years.