We know that Moses Mosop-2:03:06 marathoner and Florence Kiplagat-1/2marathon world record holder at 1:05:09 are married, and both coached by you Renato. I have read that they were also in the past both managed by Jos Hermens. Are they still both managed by Jos Hermens or have they moved to manager Gianni Demadonna now?
Who is their manager now?
Frederico Rosa terminated Claudio Berardelli's contract after he had 3 of his athletes with positive doping tests. They were:
1) Agatha Jeruto- 800m runner, banned for anabolic steroid norandrosterone.
2) Matthew Kisorio-58 min 1/2 half-marathon, banned for anabolic steroid nandrolone.
3) Rita Jeptoo- 2:18:57 marathoner, banned for EPO.
I read that Claudio Berardelli then received a new coaching contract with manager Gianni Demadonna.
Renato, is that true?
Is Claudio Berardelli now a coach with manager Gianni Demadonna?
You also stated that Alex Schwazer was clean when he won the gold in the 50K walk in 2008, and only took EPO just before the 2012 Olympics when he had a positive EPO test and was banned for 3 1/2 years, with his ban ending on April 29, 2016; just in time to be eligible for the 2016 Olympic this summer.
I do not think that your statement is true. There is evidence that Alex Schwazer was meeting with Dr. Michele Ferrari in 2010.
http://wintergames.ap.org/article/kostner-skips-doping-hearing-schwazer-case
Renato. Will you please explain the contradiction between the evidence from this story and your statement about Alex Schwazer.
A few questions for you to answer from the "lunatic doctor" who has "no clue".
fred wrote:
Bribing the drug labs in Europe:
CycleNews:
"Matschiner is a former track athlete and was still heavily involved in the track and field scene. In connection with the track world championships starting this weekend in Berlin, he told the German television broadcaster ARD that he had bribed lab workers. He allegedly paid from 150 to 500 Euros per sample.
In addition, Matschiner said that these forbidden tests were done in labs in central Europe. According to Kurier, labs in that region are in Prague, Czech Republic; Cologne and Kreischa, Germany; Lausanne, Switzerland; and Seibersdorf, Austria. Kurier reported that the Austrian lab was not involved, and Kohl said that he did not know which lab tested his samples.
The illegally tested samples were designed to help the athletes determine the dosages for "micro-dosing". As Kohl explained: "You know exactly which dose you need in the evening so that the stuff won't be traceable the next morning."
Yep, it's just 'random lunatic doctors'. They're the ones causing the problems
I do not see why you stereotype "lunatic doctors" like we are all the same. Come on! That is not being fair.
A few points:
1) that is interesting that Dr. Saugy and the Lausanne lab comes up again.
2 Dr. Gabriele Rosa's original training camp in Kenya in 1991 (and probably still with Frederico Rosa) was associated with Nike, while Jos Hermens is associated with Adidas.
3) I wonder if Renato could ask Frederico Rosa about his expensive blood testing machine that he purchased; to publish the blood test results of all his top Kenyan runners to show everyone that they were clean.
Does Renato know when that will be starting?... as I am very, very anxious...to see the blood test results of the top Kenyan runners.
I bet Frederico Rosa's expensive blood test machine is properly calibrated so that there will not be much hemoglobin or reticulocyte measurement variation or error at all.
You're saying that even with EPO, Jeptoo could only run a 2:18:57? That's nowhere close to Paula's record, and Paula was clean. How is this possible? Does this mean that EPO is not a performance enhancer? Or was Jeptoo setup and falsely charged?Please explain.
rjm33 wrote:
Frederico Rosa terminated Claudio Berardelli's contract after he had 3 of his athletes with positive doping tests. They were:
1) Agatha Jeruto- 800m runner, banned for anabolic steroid norandrosterone.
2) Matthew Kisorio-58 min 1/2 half-marathon, banned for anabolic steroid nandrolone.
3) Rita Jeptoo- 2:18:57 marathoner, banned for EPO.
As clear as your quote is, it doesn't come directly from either party, and it falls short of providing the public with "the exact instructions". The public lacks enough information to decide:- Were the instructions, and retention requirements clear, or ambigous?- Did they conflict with other WADA instructions about normal processing of samples, including retention and proper destruction?- Was there simply a lack of communication in the organization, or some other human mistake?You can decide anyway, missing this crucial information, but then it is based on assumptions that may be invalid. That's the risk I'm highlighting here.Regarding your argument of credibility, I find it too simplistic.First, because there are three parties:- WADA who gave the instruction- The Lab, who carried out testing, and then the destruction- The Independent Commission, who interpreted the WADA instruction, and the Lab's explanations after the factSo while you present an a) and b) choice, with your consequences, that is a false dichotomy. It is surely neither, as the reality can be much more complex then your black and white choices.And I note again that "acting as a paid consultant", is not in and of itself, wrong or improper. It depends on what he was paid to do, and that detail again is missing. Did something wrong occur, and was he paid to do it?
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:Your own link, to their credit, tells us a lot of other interesting things:
- That the Lausanne lab actually analyzed the samples (55 were able to be analyzed, and 12 were not) in 2012, and thought they were done with the mandate
- The LAD destroyed the samples in 2013, almost two years before the formation of the WADA-IC, in accordance with normal WADA procedures
- There seems to be a dispute: contrary to the WADA IC report, LAD says they did not receive explicit instructions to keep the samples
- While the WADA-IC was not satisfied, or did not believe, the explanation for the destruction, they also found "has found no evidence of otherwise culpable conduct"
To resolve the "dispute", a critical piece of missing information is to know what exactly did WADA instruct the Lausanne lab to do with the samples? This should be easy, but unfortunately neither WADA nor the LAD have made the exact instructions public (as far as I know).
Well, this here is quite clear:
"Perhaps more surprising was the finding of the Independent Commission that WADA’s flagship Lausanne laboratory had ‘acted contrary to specific instructions’ by destroying 67 Russian samples transferred from the Moscow laboratory, and that WADA had requested it to retain."
I really don't understand how you can still consider WADA as credible:
WADA and Saugy can't both speak the truth. Either
a) WADA lied, and didn't instruct Saugy/Lausanne to retain these samples. Then we caught WADA boldly lying -> no credibility.
or
b) Saugy lied, and destroyed the samples against WADA's "specific instructions". Such actions clearly would make Saugy unsuitable in the anti-doping fight, in line with his aiding Armstrong in defeating the EPO tests. Yet WADA keeps using him as the head of their "flagship" lab (and allegedly recommended him as credible expert to Paula). Thusly WADA cannot claim anymore to be a credible anti-doping institution.
I tend to go with b), but feel free to go with a). However b) also explains why they somewhat blame Saugy, but then paddle back:
"While the Commission reported that it had ‘not discovered evidence that would support otherwise culpable conduct on the part of the Lausanne laboratory in relation to the destruction of the samples’, it also emphasised that it ‘was not satisfied with’ and ‘did not believe’ the explanations provided by the Saugy as to how the samples came to be destroyed."
In other words, WADA caught Saugy lying, but doesn't really care. So what, eh? A corrupt leader of WADA's flagship lab fits into these times.
From the same link:
"Be that as it may, it has now emerged that Martial Saugy previously acted as a paid consultant for the Local Organising Committee of the Sochi Olympic Games and/or the Russian Ministry of Sport."
rjm33 wrote:
2 Dr. Gabriele Rosa's original training camp in Kenya in 1991 (and probably still with Frederico Rosa) was associated with Nike, while Jos Hermens is associated with Adidas.
I thought that Rosa's training camps in the 1990s were associated with the Italian sportswear manufacturer, Fila. They were called Fila discovery camps - Josh Cox was sponsored by Fila at some point and was also coached by Rosa. Sponsors could have changed so maybe I am only partially right.
Rekrunner,
Just curious, if you were forced to do the gun to the head test what would be your choice?
Location South wrote:
Rekrunner,
Just curious, if you were forced to do the gun to the head test what would be your choice?
Are there bullets in that gun.
I don't see how I can give you an answer if I am under duress. Do you want a real answer, or do you want me to say what ever you want.
When was the last time that gun was calibrated. Have those bullets expired.
How many experts agreed that the gun works. Are they certified.
What do you mean by choice. Will the gun be directly pointed at my head
Rekrunner definitely has some kind of outside interest in this topic to dedicate this much time to it. He's either part of Radcliffes management group, part of Nike, a friend or Gary Lough.
I think everybody have come to the conclusion that he's Gary!
Autologous Madness wrote:
I think everybody have come to the conclusion that he's Gary!
While it's fun to speculate, I don't think so. The reason I don't think so is because rekrunner, although misguided, has not been a bully on this topic and has not come across as threatening or intimidating in any way. We have evidence that the tone coming from Paula's camp has been far more hostile.
This was a joke! Obviously!Everybody have come to the conclusion that rekrunner has way too much free time on his hand and that insanity is rampant over there!!!rjm33 is also a little crazier everyday! He keeps bringing the same stories and facts that everybody with minimal knowledge of the sport heard of years and decades ago... But I truly enjoy reading his rambling thoughts regarding doping doctors, dodgy managers and his so-called lunatic conspiracy theories! Keep up the good work!This thread might surpass the Mike Rossi thread if rekrunner et rjm33 stay off their meds for a couple more months!
Dodge Ball wrote:
Autologous Madness wrote:I think everybody have come to the conclusion that he's Gary!
While it's fun to speculate, I don't think so. The reason I don't think so is because rekrunner, although misguided, has not been a bully on this topic and has not come across as threatening or intimidating in any way. We have evidence that the tone coming from Paula's camp has been far more hostile.
The public doesn't really lack that information, because the disput is a different one. WADA claims it instructed Saugy that the samples should be retained; Saugy claims that he did not receive said instruction, so he destroyed the samples. So sorry, I didn't miss any "crucial information". As for the third party, that was the committee chosen by WADA and led by WADA's previous president, Pound. Sounds very independent, sure. Could it have lied/mispresented the facts? Of course they may all be in it together (wouldn't surprise me, but that wasn't my point). Otherwise, both Saugy and WADA had several months to correct Pound & Co, yet neither decided to do so. Why not? Because the truth is worse? Don't see how this option could possibly restore a bit of WADA's credibility. Last, as for Saugy being the paid consultant of the apparently corrupt Russians, just before he - allegedly against WADA's instructions - destroyed the suspicious Russian samples: while not illegal, it is yet another one of these "coincidences" that keep coming up with WADA/IAAF/Coe/Radcliffe etc. At the very least, it was a blatant conflict of interest scenario, as with Coe both working for IAAF and Nike.
rekrunner wrote:
As clear as your quote is, it doesn't come directly from either party, and it falls short of providing the public with "the exact instructions". The public lacks enough information to decide:
- Were the instructions, and retention requirements clear, or ambigous?
- Did they conflict with other WADA instructions about normal processing of samples, including retention and proper destruction?
- Was there simply a lack of communication in the organization, or some other human mistake?
You can decide anyway, missing this crucial information, but then it is based on assumptions that may be invalid. That's the risk I'm highlighting here.
Regarding your argument of credibility, I find it too simplistic.
First, because there are three parties:
- WADA who gave the instruction
- The Lab, who carried out testing, and then the destruction
- The Independent Commission, who interpreted the WADA instruction, and the Lab's explanations after the fact
So while you present an a) and b) choice, with your consequences, that is a false dichotomy. It is surely neither, as the reality can be much more complex then your black and white choices.
And I note again that "acting as a paid consultant", is not in and of itself, wrong or improper. It depends on what he was paid to do, and that detail again is missing. Did something wrong occur, and was he paid to do it?
Autologous! You even knew about all the Netherlands connections? Yes, the Italian stuff is old news. However, I realized last night that the whole conspiracy story is almost an exact repeat of a previous story we all have already read. You are correct! Here are the old and new versions of the same story:
1) The old version is a story with different cycling teams from Italy and the Netherlands. The new version is different running training camps in Kenya run by managers from Italy and the Netherlands.
2) The old version has Lance Armstrong as the main character while the new version has Paula Radcliffe as the main character.
3) Lance had a yellow wristband while Paula had a red ribbon.
4) Cycling had Hein Verbruggen from the Netherlands while running has Lamine Diack.
5) Cycling had Pat McQuaid while running has Lord Sebastian Coe.
6) Both stories have Dr. Martial "Plan B" Saugy as the same character!
just a coincidence.
Yes, you are correct. There was also an association with Fila as well as Nike. You can read about Dr. Gabriele Rosa in this story which has photos of a building at the Kapsait camp which says Nike on the building, and it is funded by Nike. Autologous blood transfusions also come up in the story! That is just a coincidence.
http://www.runnersworld.com/rt-web-exclusive/dr-rosa-in-his-own-words
here is a post showing both no clue and also not being very polite as well:
rjm33 wrote:
You are right...malaria is prevalent in Africa...so it could just be a coincidence.
But the world record holder in the marathon running 2:03... 6 weeks after a bout of malaria...which causes anemia!...seems almost too unbelievable!...
...this is starting to sound familiar to another thread... which is now becoming very boring...
The Italian connection is key. Look at what Dr. Francesco Conconi was publishing a study about in the year 1988, the same year EPO was banned by the International Ski Federation that governs cross-country skiers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3384528
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Conconi
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/k...lel-191629
For another coincidence...
Martin Lel won the World Half-marathon Championships at Vilamoura in 2003 ...the same year that Paula Radcliffe won the women's championship race. I have heard it was warm that day... but nobody in the world knows what the actual temperature was during the race that day!
For another coincidence, as you can see from the link above...Martin Lel was coached by Claudio Berardelli... and his manager was Frederico Rosa...RJM, I haven't been on this thread since the day I posted it. Please email me if you have any questions.
Youre posts seem to have no logic.
This is how I see it.
1) Malaria is common in Kenya. I'm not sure what some korean-kenyan testing positive has anything to do with the rosa group. Is it possible groups could have been using EPO for a long time in Kenya? of course it is but that has nothing to do with the case wer are talking about here.
2) The thing you seem to not understand is people will say they had malaria when they simply got sick so it's not necessarily malaria even if it's in the press that way.
3) I've learned from posting this thread as a few people have posted, or emailed me that it is indeed possible that someone was given EPO after they got malaria. So it's possible this guy Erupe didn't mean to cheat.
Instead you've taken this thread back into the 1980s.
rojo wrote:
Other greats had malaria wrote:
So, with regards to this athlete, I see a big issue: being able to come back from that kind of illness and perform as a 2:05 marathoner.Filbert Bayi, the great world record setting miler, had recurring malaria.
Billy Konchellah won two world 800m titles. Pretty sure he missed one of the world championships in between his two titles because he had tuberculosis, and had to stop training on more than one occasion because of TB. He was also sick in another way, but no need to dredge that up again.
What's your point? I hope you are making fun of RJM. EPO didn't exist when Bayi competed.
Thank you very much, Rojo. I consider a comment like that from you to be expected.
If you talk to Paula Perfect Transparency Radcliffe soon, please ask her if she is ever going to release any blood test results for hemoglobin and reticulocyte levels from around her 2:15 or 2:17 world record marathons.
That is a question I have for Paula that you can help me get answered.
Thanks so much for helping me get some answers to my questions.
We are all still waiting for answers from Paula.
Here is a fun one:
RRW Flashback: Paula Radcliffe Sets Marathon WR 13 Years Ago Today
By David Monti, @d9monti
(c) 2003 Race Results Weekly, all rights reserved
April 13, 2016
NOTE: Thirteen years ago today, Britain’s Paula Radcliffe smashed the absolute world record for the women’s marathon in London with her 2:15:25 clocking. As of yesterday, that record had stood for 12 years, 11 months and 30 days, making it the longest-standing women’s marathon world record in history. Here is the Race Results Weekly story I filed from the London Marathon on that day –Ed.
LONDON (13-Apr) — In a jaw-dropping display of marathon running which left even veteran journalists searching for superlatives, Paula Radcliffe of Great Britain took the sport of distance running into completely uncharted territory, smashing her own world record by nearly two minutes in 2:15:25.
“She’s like Neil Armstrong,†said Chicago Marathon race director, Carey Pinkowski.
Carey! Come on! She is more like...Lance Armstrong!
just another coincidence
Go Paula Perfect Transparency Radcliffe!!!
You might like this article on the Moscow lab.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36058877
I got hired part time at BBC as a consultant and writer. The BBC let me write only the last sentence in this story, but it is a start! :
What with a muddle over meldonium, calls to extend the Russian investigation, a row over re-tests, confusion in Kenya, mysterious blood bags in Barcelona and a dodgy doctor on Harley Street, these are worrying times for the war against drugs cheats.
Rekrunner, help me out with some basic math, please.
Paula ran 2:15:25 clean.
Liliya Shobukhova ran 2:18:20 doped to the gills under Russia's state-sponsored program.
Rita Jeptoo ran 2:18:57 under Kenya's doping program.
Only three other women have ever run in the 2:18s (Mary Keitany (Kenya), Catherine Ndereba (Kenya), and Tiki Gelana (Ethiopia)).
It's thought that doping gives a 3-4 minute gain to women marathoners.
Are we saying that if Paula would have doped, she could have run a 2:11-2:12?!?!? A full 6-7 minutes faster than the other dopers?!?!
It's thought that doping helps some elite athletes more than others. But is it possible for it to help one athlete gain 6-7 minutes more than another?
I'm so very confused.
This is hard to read but it reminds me of what made this thread interesting at the beginning. If I recall correctly, when the Sunday times story came out, Paula went to Wejo and shared data with him. Wejo would not discuss detAils with his audience here but felt that they should and would release more information. Instead they went the IAAF route. I am guessing that there will not be any further follow up. I have not watched the Boston marathon interviews yet. I will be interested to see if they ask the top runners about the state of testing in their countries. It seems like a relevant topic.
rjm33 wrote:
here is a post showing both no clue and also not being very polite as well:
rjm33 wrote:
You are right...malaria is prevalent in Africa...so it could just be a coincidence.
But the world record holder in the marathon running 2:03... 6 weeks after a bout of malaria...which causes anemia!...seems almost too unbelievable!...
...this is starting to sound familiar to another thread... which is now becoming very boring...
The Italian connection is key. Look at what Dr. Francesco Conconi was publishing a study about in the year 1988, the same year EPO was banned by the International Ski Federation that governs cross-country skiers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3384528https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Conconihttp://www.iaaf.org/athletes/k...lel-191629For another coincidence...
Martin Lel won the World Half-marathon Championships at Vilamoura in 2003 ...the same year that Paula Radcliffe won the women's championship race. I have heard it was warm that day... but nobody in the world knows what the actual temperature was during the race that day!
For another coincidence, as you can see from the link above...Martin Lel was coached by Claudio Berardelli... and his manager was Frederico Rosa...RJM, I haven't been on this thread since the day I posted it. Please email me if you have any questions.
Youre posts seem to have no logic.
This is how I see it.
1) Malaria is common in Kenya. I'm not sure what some korean-kenyan testing positive has anything to do with the rosa group. Is it possible groups could have been using EPO for a long time in Kenya? of course it is but that has nothing to do with the case wer are talking about here.
2) The thing you seem to not understand is people will say they had malaria when they simply got sick so it's not necessarily malaria even if it's in the press that way.
3) I've learned from posting this thread as a few people have posted, or emailed me that it is indeed possible that someone was given EPO after they got malaria. So it's possible this guy Erupe didn't mean to cheat.
Instead you've taken this thread back into the 1980s.
rojo wrote:
Other greats had malaria wrote:
So, with regards to this athlete, I see a big issue: being able to come back from that kind of illness and perform as a 2:05 marathoner.Filbert Bayi, the great world record setting miler, had recurring malaria.
Billy Konchellah won two world 800m titles. Pretty sure he missed one of the world championships in between his two titles because he had tuberculosis, and had to stop training on more than one occasion because of TB. He was also sick in another way, but no need to dredge that up again.
What's your point? I hope you are making fun of RJM. EPO didn't exist when Bayi competed.
Thank you very much, Rojo. I consider a comment like that from you to be expected.
If you talk to Paula Perfect Transparency Radcliffe soon, please ask her if she is ever going to release any blood test results for hemoglobin and reticulocyte levels from around her 2:15 or 2:17 world record marathons.
That is a question I have for Paula that you can help me get answered.
Thanks so much for helping me get some answers to my questions.
We are all still waiting for answers from Paula.