50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Well, I had three weeks of limping around and tried to race this weekend. I planned the race months ago and I was on a team so I went to DC for the Army 10 Miler. I earned every second I was on the course. Although my calf didn't bug me too much, I think my thoughts of 'will it give out now?' or 'now?' or 'now?' probably didn't give me a fighting chance to run well.

I finished in 56:20 or so. Much longer than I was out there last year and longer than I hoped I'd be out there, even injured, this year. But, they will shot the gun again next year and I can redeem myself.

Besides that, I basically did nothing all week but hope my leg would improve.

I'll be in China next week so running will be limited all week.

Happy trails.

skinnbones wrote:

I finished in 56:20 or so. Much longer than I was out there last year and longer than I hoped I'd be out there, even injured, this year.

Looking forward to seeing what you can do when you're healthy! Nice run...

Dave

No comments on Magill's performance, but Chuck Smead and Doug Schmenk were 1-2 in the 60s and over. Smead has had amazing longevity, he ran 2:23 for the marathon while in high school, was Silver Medallist in the 1975 Pan Am Games Marathon and has really been going forever. He should get more recognition. And I wonder how close Schmenk is to the 180ish mile weeks he was legendary for doing in his prime?

Thanks for the props to Chuck and Doug, HRE. This is another thing I love about this thread; for someone who stepped away from the sport for so long, it's nice to be reminded of the histories of a lot of the masters runners out there.

Also, kudos to Mike; to "hobble" in a 56-min. 10-miler is pretty amazing.

MikeF and Muddy Girl, thanks for sharing your memories.

Sounds like most everyone is training well, glad to see a low rate of injury reports.

AlanB, yes, that is a good feature of progression runs. In this case, it was mostly that I was running with only approximate distances and misgauged my pace/effort, upon more accurate measurement, I came up short. Also, my second and third miles were a little too fast from what I had intended. It's all good though, as the increased effort was there.

Also, I think I understand why my legs were dead last week. I went through my logs from the beginning of the year and, through the first half of the year, every 4-5 weeks, I took a down week. But after my knee raised a caution flag in mid-June, I have been increasing my mileage and effort pretty steadily with only 2 semi-down weeks (meaning intensity was down, but mileage was not). Moral of the story for me, is that my body really needs to take an honest down week every 4-5 weeks, whether I think I need it or not.

Cheers!

Mon -1 hour kyak session.

Tue - 3k warmup, 8 x 300m barefoot up and down golf course fairway. low 80s on the uphills, low 60s on the downhills. 3k warmdown.

Wed - 2h 30 min mtn bike ride.

Thu - 4k steady undulating run then a very steep 9 min climb @ hard effort, 5 min steep downhill jog then turned and ran back up 5.35 @ hard effort. 7 min steep downhill jog, then strong 4k run.

Fri - 40 min kyak session.

Sat - 1 hour mtn bike inc steep 4km climb and a steep 1.5 km climb (rough terrain)then dropped bike in the bush and changed shoes, 500m warmup then 4k tough trail loop in 16.18, then 500m jog and a quck 3km ride home.

Sun - About 25kms of mixed running on Mt Alexander. I started with an easy out and back 35 mins along the aqueduct trail then pushed hard up to the summit cairn, a steep road run of 32 mins. Easy recovery for a few minutes along the road to the TV towers then down through the bush on technical trails. Turned around at the bottom and ran back up the same trails at a strong effort (about 30 mins) then trotted back down the road to finish.

Low mileage week but quite good intensity and variety.

I've been very strict about doing the extras recently.

Before each session I have done my 15-20 squats and pushups and 1.30 plank also have added in 15-20 walking lunges and a bit of backward jogging. I repeated this post session except on saturday when I was pushed for time to get ready for work.

Sunday's run was good, I felt surprisingly strong on the climb. I don't keep track of past times particularly but I'm pretty sure recent efforts up that hill have been more like 34-35 mins. It's a great local asset that mountain. It's hardly ever used by runners but is popular with the cyclists. There was a guy paragliding off it today.

Better week with the knee improving:

Week of 10/22

Mon AM Indoors: 2+mile warm-up outside, then indoors: 4x100m strides, 2x200m in 30 flat, 4x800 with full recovery 2:17, 2:16, 2:14, 2:12.6 (66.1, 66.5), walk to outside track then 2x200m in 28.4, 2x100m 14.0, 1 mile cool-down. Calves tight towards the end, on the fast 200's or 100's I felt lose but no power - fatigue from 800's I guess. Knee fine, left leg a little odd on fast 200's & 100's.

PM PT1, light stretching.

Tue AM 5 mile run on treadmill @ 2.5% grade, down to under 6:00 pace.

PM Stretching. PT2

Wed AM 5 mile progressive run on treadmill @ 1% grade, last 2 miles in 5:37, 5:14, jog 1 mile, walk 1 lap then 1/2 mile in 2:24, jog/walk 1/2 mile then another 1/2 mile in 2:24, 1 mile cool- down. Felt fatigued, pace should have been more comfortable.

PM Good weight session, best my left hamstring has felt in a long time. PT3

Thur AM 5+ mile run, felt better, last mile under 6:00. Knee felt good, tendon better too.

PM 4 mile walk. Stretching. PT1

Fri AM Indoors: 2+ mile warm-up, 6x100m strides down to 13.5, 4x200 down to 28.2, 400 in 57.85 (28.1 first 200), 600 in 1:35.7 (last 200 31.5), 4x400 62.5, 62.7, 63.4 (dodged a woman stepping onto track with our looking), 63.3. 1 mile cool down. Ok considering less speed work so far this month. Too quick the first 200 on the fast 400 - tying up last 50m. Felt best on the 400's, getting tired by last one - tying up last 100m. Hard to imagine that I used to do 12 400's faster than that and with only 45 seconds rest!

PM massage, weights, PT3

Sat AM 5 mile run on treadmill @2.5% grade, easy pace 7-9 min/mile. Weights.

PM massage, light stretching

Sun No running. Stretching, PT3

I hope to avoid the hurricane this week as I travel east. Have a good week!

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Week 73

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Greetings Grand-masters. For you all on the US eastern seaboard, I send my prayers for safekeeping during Sandy the Frankenstorm.

I had a good week. Bounced back my mileage and intensity to where it was a few weeks back. Managed 54+ miles on 8 runs

Sun: 8 w/2@5:48 pace + 1@ 5:45

Mon: 8.5 easy (7+ on grass)

Tue: 6.3 w/1.6@6:04 pace

Wed: 8.6 w/3x4laps run progressively (lap averages: 88.4,82.1,77.7,74.3)

Thu: 6 easy (3+ on grass)

Fri: 10 easy 5 am + 5 pm (9 on grass)

Sat: 7.2 (6.2 Fartlek @ 6:43 average pace)

Notes:

- Sunday: only meant the 2-miler to be hard, but something got into us, and after 2/3-mile at an easier pace, we just picked it up again and burned it into the finish before cooling down another 1.6 on grass.

-Tuesday: The harder 1.6-mile section was controlled, not taxing.

-Wednesday's track workout was on the funky 4 laps = 1500m, so don't forget to add about 4-5s (depending on pace) to each lap for comparison to 400s. Cooldown was on grass.

-Friday's "easy-on-grass" was run wearing my "spikeless" XC shoes--Mizuno Wave Kaze. Wanted to get used to them.

-Saturday's Fartlek had 8 sections between 90s and 3min of hard-but-controlled efforts. I'm a little stiff this morning.

-Including some cooldown miles, a total of 22 of it was run on grass this week: a record for me, I think.

I've got cross-country on my mind as I've been thinking about the upcoming Club XC meet. I was put in charge by our club to put together some men's teams, but I don't think we'll be particularly fast; it'll be better than last time, though. John's Run/Walk Shop has gleened off some decent 40+ guys, and it was looking like they could have been really competitive, but now it looks like Kevin C. won't be running because he has committed to re-trying the marathon the week prior to Club XC after he bailed in Minneapolis due to stomache issues.

Finally, I have to throw out some props to my old HS for taking the Wisconsin State Cross-Country Team Title. They landed 4 guys in the top 15 (team-wise) for the win; their top two are Tim Hacker's boys---Wisconsin running royalty. The fastest is also the youngest of their brood---only a sophomore. It will be interesting to see how he develops; their brother, Sam, is now running at UW. I grew up in the era of Tim's older brothers, Jeff and Mike, and the Stinzi family, as well. At that time, Menomonee Falls North needed just those two families to dominate Cross-country in the state for most of the '70's. The apples sure haven't fallen far from the tree!

Hope everyone is having a great fall. Any races to report?

Nice 60'ish mile week here. Temps were all over the place running without a shirt Wednesday and freezing my hands on Saturday. Liking the cool temps though...

Just wondering Ken (WOC) Any particular reason you do so much of your training on a treadmill or indoors?

Relaxed steady running with two workouts this week. Did a 6 mile tempo in 35:12 on Wed going 600.0, 554.3, 549.5, 551.3, 549.0, 548.5...Wanted to finish a bit stronger but didn't have much 'go' after 3-1/2... Had a pretty relaxed progressive 10 on Saturday in 66 minutes. Went 703, 651, 650, 648, 640, 633, 628, 624, 616, 607 then a 2 mi cool-down in 643,636. All-in-all felt decent all week.

Feeling pretty good into my HM in Indy next weekend.

Have a good week everyone,

Dave

Week 73: 11 hours 0 minutes in 9 runs, 2 of them workouts

Wed 45 minutes (not counting the walking) on the treadmill, 5-minute segments with pace/mile of 15, 12, 10:54, 9:40, 8:27, 7:30, 6:40, 8:27, 8:27, 8:27, 15. Okay only 10 minutes at faster than easy, but I got a compliment from the lady on the next treadmill, so I'll count it.

Sat 3 hours 45 minutes very slow. I was planning 2 hours, but decided to shepherd a couple of runners who needed 22. Everybody started at different times so I can't go by their mileage, but I didn't go slower than their pace (11:00 per) and only stopped once briefly (spent a lot of time running circles around them) so mine must have been above 22 miles. I also did some short pickups and a longish segment, maybe a mile, at 7:30 pace. I haven't run longer than 19 miles in over a year and a half, no surprise the plantar fasciae were complaining afterwards and again this morning.

Sleep log: 9.5, 8, 6.5, 8, 8, 7, 8, average 7.9. Weight has crept up 1/2 pound to about 146 (range 144.6 - 147.4). Right now it seems the weight correlates more to the sleep (+-) than the training volume (++).

The ankle was responding really well, I thought it was 95% recovered. So on Thursday (2 weeks 5 days from the sprain) I decided to be less conservative with the squats and bump up the weight. On the 9th rep of the 3rd set my ankle gave a pop, and I spent the next five minutes walking around hating myself. I'll probably jump on the elliptical the next three days to see if I can get the swelling to go back down.

My next race will be a 5k on January 1, I'm looking to maybe be back where I was last January 1. I need consistency to get there.

lucKY2b wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/13/sports/for-new-york-cross-country-runners-a-century-of-testing-runners-speed-and-spirit.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

.

And I can't believe how quickly Club XC is approaching; certainly look forward to meeting any of you that venture down to our fair city. There will be a couple of chances to race at Masterson Station (where Club XC will be held) in the coming weeks. I might have to venture out and give it a whirl.

Hope everyone is having a super week. All the Best!

Great Article!

The CHSAA runs a high school alumni meet at Vanny every November. It is coming up on 11/10/12 for any alums wanting to lace up and run against your fellow old timers (and a lot of younger alums).

I was able to squeeze into 31st last year and didn't feel TOO bad about being 3 minutes slower after 34 years!

Greetings from Taiwan,

Took the week easy due to travel in Asia so not much running to report. My bod y responded to the break rather well so maybe I was doing too much prior to Army 10 Miler.....Seems like every year, the 'rules' of recovery change and I have to adjust so I don't overdo it.

Back in the US later this week.

On a side note, looks like LetsRun has made it. The site is officially banned in China (the forum section) along with social media sites like FaceBook. Congrats to the Johnson brothers :)

Impressed with so many of your workouts this week...particularly by age 50+ athletes...real nice!

Another solid week of training...47 miles including hard 4 minute repeats on Tuesday, a light track session on Thursday and 17 miler yesterday...now @ 99,893 by my count

Had a handful of great chuckles as I reviewed the workouts and descriptions from my very first ever training log which was started in October 1970...must have thought I was Jack Lalanne or something as nearly every single day included "calisthenics"...when was the last time you heard THAT term?

Have a fine week...hoping you East Coast sorts are spared by the impending Frankenstorm...stay well.

GO GIANTS!

MF

looks like my red solo cup is half full

no injuries feel good but NOT getting faster or lighter

I do feel springy

Maybe I need an age graded watch. A watch that slows down like me to reflect your age. So a rippin 18:59 5k 91 secs per 400 at 56 age grades to 76 secs per quarter. Viola the slow watch would read 5:04 after the first 1600 (real time being 6:05) of course the LED would be EXTRA LARGE.

ended up doing something fun 400 kinda fast 90 secs followed by 100 jog 30 secs 4 times might do some more of these

one hard loop on Glendoveer felt good except for the footing ever run on slippery chunks of wood? 13:32 which brings me back to being honest about how I feel the reality is I like competing I like looking at the dam watch during the fricking run and running the numbers I like figuring out what I gotta do from the big pine tree at the corner to the bench in order to squeak out another PR

really getting tough to stick with the 20 minute per day limit but so far I have

MikeF wrote:

... "calisthenics"...when was the last time you heard THAT term?

I think the last I heard it was the same as the last I did them, which would have been every morning in primary school to begin the day. They had the workout on the closed circuit TV (ooh, advanced technology!) and we all had to do the side stretches, deep knee bends, jumping jacks, etc. Nowadays I suppose even the P.E. classes are optional. Bring back the calisthenics!

Racerdb,

Yes, there are a few reasons I run indoors and on the treadmill.

First, I have neuropathy in my fingers, a side effect of the chemo. Cold weather, even cool weather (60's and a breeze) turn my fingers white, then blue if I'm not careful about keeping then warm. They will even turn white on a hard interval indoors. I try to be prophylactic about not getting any infections, like a nail fungus, in case I have to start treatments again. Sometimes you can handle the cancer drugs but an infection can kill you. I already have a compromised immune system so staying infection free is important should any cancer drugs lower my immune cells even further

Second, I feel silly wearing gloves in cool weather plus they make holding a stopwatch (can't read the dials on running watches without my glasses and I don't wear them when running) with heat pouches inside awkward when trying to start and stop the stopwatch.

So, until the weather is colder and gloves are the norm, when it is cool I'm pretty much indoors. I can cope on some of these cool days by just holding the heat pouches and no gloves but if it's windy too my fingers become an issue.

Besides the drug I got that is toxic to the heart (doxorubicin), the one responsible for the neuropathy is vincristine. Another of my treatment drugs, bleomycin, can cause pulmonary fibrosis. Some people, particularly the less fit, really get messed up by cancer treatments. There are now more women with breast cancer over the age of 65 dying from cardiovascular problems than from the breast cancer.

Thanks for asking, sorry for the short story reply!

Charlie wrote:

I do feel springy

That is just your body trying to trick you into doing too much. Thus the well-known masters' rule: Don't listen to your body.

Dave,

For what it's worth, I use the treadmill mostly when injured. Depending on injury status I go from elliptical to treadmill to roads; then add in hills, grass, and finally trails when really healthy.

Ken,

I hear you about the stopwatch. The running watches I have are annoying for intervals, it's an awkward button press of precisely the correct duration to register a lap. I use a fat Timex Marathon stopwatch with nice large buttons. If I need the Garmin as well, I simply start both watches at the beginning of the warmup. With gloves on (no heat packs) the stopwatch tends to slip out of my fingers. I wrap the lanyard around my wrist and hand so I don't actually drop it, but it's still a pain. I've been thinking of fashioning a custom velcro enclosure for the stopwatch which would allow me to hold it in position "fingers-free". A good January snowstorm project.

As for feeling silly wearing gloves in cool weather.... You're so dang fast, I'd bet you would soon find everybody else wearing gloves because "that's what the fast guy does".

Considering the workouts you do and what you have been through I can't imagine the need to feel silly wearing gloves!!!

LOL Alan! Put my logo on the gloves and raise some cash! Geezer watches too, sign me up!