History and the local circumstances all point to a very low likelihood that they can take Hamas off the board. I understand the emotionally charged brutal response, but that just ain't gonna work.
I responded in a different thread already but I believe it is relevant here too:
As someone who has spent several months in both Israel and Palestine (granted, this was in Bethlehem and Ramallah in the West Bank) and has given a lot of thought to this question, the unfortunate reality is that you cannot stop Hamas. No amount of concessions would get rid of Hamas, and giving more Israeli land to Gaza will only strengthen Gazan support for Hamas, as they would be one step closer to "liberating Palestine." However, Gaza would now be closer to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, making the threat of rockets and missiles significantly more apparent. Combine that with a population more hopeful of reclaiming more land and larger, more difficult borders to patrol, and you have a recipe for greater bloodshed. The current mission of the Israeli government is to "destroy Hamas," but you cannot destroy an ideology with violence alone. Even if Israel manages to kill most Hamas terrorists, the civilians of Gaza will witness this violence and destruction, making them even angrier than before. With leadership protected in Qatar and half the Gazan population under 18, Hamas will not struggle to convince impressionable civilians to join their cause. Israel has given 24 hours for over one million residents of Gaza City to evacuate to the south, a task that even the Israeli government knows is impossible. Once the ground invasion begins, IDF soldiers, Hamas terrorists, and many innocent civilians will die. Israel will secure their borders, Hamas will increase power, and the cycle will continue. Many have tried to propose other Arab states taking Palestinians or annexing their land, but none are interested in that. When Jordan annexed the West Bank, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) caused a bloody civil war known as Black September, which led to the assassination of former prime minister Wasfi Tal. Jordan eventually kicked the Palestinians out. When Lebanon accepted Palestinians, the PLO caused the 1982 Lebanon War, causing the Palestinians to be kicked out again. When Kuwait took 400,000 Palestinians, they turned on Kuwait during the Gulf War, with the PLO supporting the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Again, Kuwait kicked out all of the Palestinians. Even if Egypt agreed to annex Gaza, this wouldn't change the ethnic identity of Palestinians and their desire to take over the entire Israel-Palestine region. Ultimately, no country wants to get involved with Gaza because of Hamas, and the leaders of Hamas will continue to use Gazan citizens as pawns in a violent game with Israel. While it is very cynical, I cannot think of any other realistic solution besides continuing the cycle of violence. My heart breaks for the innocent civilians in Gaza who will likely continue to suffer for the rest of their lives.
This is a very good post that captures the essence of it all. No two state solution is possible. The only possibility is that Palestinians are economically and culturally assimilated into both Jordan and Egypt, but Jordan and Egypt don’t want them, understandably so. Even as a majority in the West Bank are TransJordanian leftovers. Jordan doesn’t want the problem, which is a shame, because I believe that is the only solution. Concede the West Bank and secure the border and concede Gaza.
Both groups of people have historical claims to the land. Long before the Ottoman Empire, there was a Mongoloid culture there. Are we going to tell the pilgrims to just go back to Europe? It is naive and pollyanish. Hamas just set Gaza back many decades, because even if Israel eventually loses the publicity war, they are going to stop at nothing to try to eradicate terrorists in Gaza. To the victor of war go the spoils.
I responded in a different thread already but I believe it is relevant here too:
As someone who has spent several months in both Israel and Palestine (granted, this was in Bethlehem and Ramallah in the West Bank) and has given a lot of thought to this question, the unfortunate reality is that you cannot stop Hamas. No amount of concessions would get rid of Hamas, and giving more Israeli land to Gaza will only strengthen Gazan support for Hamas, as they would be one step closer to "liberating Palestine." However, Gaza would now be closer to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, making the threat of rockets and missiles significantly more apparent. Combine that with a population more hopeful of reclaiming more land and larger, more difficult borders to patrol, and you have a recipe for greater bloodshed. The current mission of the Israeli government is to "destroy Hamas," but you cannot destroy an ideology with violence alone. Even if Israel manages to kill most Hamas terrorists, the civilians of Gaza will witness this violence and destruction, making them even angrier than before. With leadership protected in Qatar and half the Gazan population under 18, Hamas will not struggle to convince impressionable civilians to join their cause. Israel has given 24 hours for over one million residents of Gaza City to evacuate to the south, a task that even the Israeli government knows is impossible. Once the ground invasion begins, IDF soldiers, Hamas terrorists, and many innocent civilians will die. Israel will secure their borders, Hamas will increase power, and the cycle will continue. Many have tried to propose other Arab states taking Palestinians or annexing their land, but none are interested in that. When Jordan annexed the West Bank, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) caused a bloody civil war known as Black September, which led to the assassination of former prime minister Wasfi Tal. Jordan eventually kicked the Palestinians out. When Lebanon accepted Palestinians, the PLO caused the 1982 Lebanon War, causing the Palestinians to be kicked out again. When Kuwait took 400,000 Palestinians, they turned on Kuwait during the Gulf War, with the PLO supporting the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Again, Kuwait kicked out all of the Palestinians. Even if Egypt agreed to annex Gaza, this wouldn't change the ethnic identity of Palestinians and their desire to take over the entire Israel-Palestine region. Ultimately, no country wants to get involved with Gaza because of Hamas, and the leaders of Hamas will continue to use Gazan citizens as pawns in a violent game with Israel. While it is very cynical, I cannot think of any other realistic solution besides continuing the cycle of violence. My heart breaks for the innocent civilians in Gaza who will likely continue to suffer for the rest of their lives.
This is a very good post that captures the essence of it all. No two state solution is possible. The only possibility is that Palestinians are economically and culturally assimilated into both Jordan and Egypt, but Jordan and Egypt don’t want them, understandably so. s.
How about one state of Palestine/Israel where everyone has equal rights? Why should the Palestinians have to leave Palestine?
In every group you can find individuals who espouse hateful and eliminationist rhetoric. But the key is do they represent the majority in that group? Actually, Israelis are less likely to wish for the deaths of Palestinians than are Palestinians wishing for the deaths of Jews. Don't forget- the Hamas charter explicitly calls for the death of Jews, not only in Israel, but worldwide.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday he wants Eritrean migrants involved in a violent clash in Tel Aviv to be deported immediately and has ordered a plan to remove all of the country's African migrants.
In every group you can find individuals who espouse hateful and eliminationist rhetoric. But the key is do they represent the majority in that group? Actually, Israelis are less likely to wish for the deaths of Palestinians than are Palestinians wishing for the deaths of Jews. Don't forget- the Hamas charter explicitly calls for the death of Jews, not only in Israel, but worldwide.
Individuals?
The state of Israel is engaging in genocide this very second.
You call for the genocide of Jews for 75 years and then clutch your pearls when they use your own language?
boo hoo.
Israel has the power to act on this threat yet they don't do it.
Entire Arab nations along with Hamas and the PLO and ever other terrorist group in Palestine has been desperately trying to actually do this for 75 years now.
The ONLY reason Jews still exist in the middle east is the utter incompetence of the arab man at war.
In every group you can find individuals who espouse hateful and eliminationist rhetoric. But the key is do they represent the majority in that group? Actually, Israelis are less likely to wish for the deaths of Palestinians than are Palestinians wishing for the deaths of Jews. Don't forget- the Hamas charter explicitly calls for the death of Jews, not only in Israel, but worldwide.
Individuals?
The state of Israel is engaging in genocide this very second.
Like, for real. Literally nobody should care what happens to the Palestinians at this point. once you chop a babies head off for sport, then you cease to be cared about. the debate is over. whatever happens, happens. turn the page.
The state of Israel is engaging in genocide this very second.
Like, for real. Literally nobody should care what happens to the Palestinians at this point. once you chop a babies head off for sport, then you cease to be cared about. the debate is over. whatever happens, happens. turn the page.
The head chopping story is a lie.
That you support the mass murder of thousands -- or more -- of children in Gaza is disgusting
Opposing the genocide of the Palestinians is America hating?
You are a traitor to America and American values
Don't be coming in here with this penny ante garbage posting. We expect more excitement from you on your Global Jihad Day. Go out and plant an IED in your neighbor's driveway or something. Burn an American flag. Do some damn thing.
Biden impeachment: gone from the news Runaway inflation: gone from the news Ukraine collapse: gone from the news Global recession: gone from the news Hunter Biden laptop: gone from the news COVID vaccine deaths: gone from the news
Biden impeachment: gone from the news Runaway inflation: gone from the news Ukraine collapse: gone from the news Global recession: gone from the news Hunter Biden laptop: gone from the news COVID vaccine deaths: gone from the news
The Biden regime needed a war.
Israel was also on the brink of civil unrest over Bibi's actions with the Israeli Supreme Court and that has all gone away as well.
It is puzzling how this attack was a complete surprise to the supposed best spy network in the world.
This is a very good post that captures the essence of it all. No two state solution is possible. The only possibility is that Palestinians are economically and culturally assimilated into both Jordan and Egypt, but Jordan and Egypt don’t want them, understandably so. s.
How about one state of Palestine/Israel where everyone has equal rights? Why should the Palestinians have to leave Palestine?
Not going to happen. The Palestinians in Gaza are different from the Palestinians in West Bank, and they don’t have the same leadership, and the leadership doesn’t even get along. They will remain Palestinians but assimilate into Jordan and Egypt, where many of them are actually from. And what about the problem of Jerusalem? Are we just going to split that in half with a wall between East & West?
Israel and Judaism are an existential threat to Muslims and, especially Iran and Palestine, who want them completely extinguished. Palestineans could’ve had a two state solution, but that is not what they ultimately want. So they continue to goad Israel, and Israel continues to make inroads with settlements and such. Frankly, Israel could annihilate all of Palestine if they wanted to, but that’s not their endgame.
I am proposing a solution for Palestinians where Israel stops incursions, but Palestinians don’t want it. Again, Jordan and Egypt could make this solution easy and fairly seamless, but they know what they would be getting so they don’t want it, which speaks volumes. It’s not just Israel who blockades Gaza. There is a certain neighbor to the south.
Opposing the genocide of the Palestinians is America hating?
You are a traitor to America and American values
Don't be coming in here with this penny ante garbage posting. We expect more excitement from you on your Global Jihad Day. Go out and plant an IED in your neighbor's driveway or something. Burn an American flag. Do some damn thing.
Going on about Global Jihad while Israel mass murders thousands of children and claiming to stand for American values.
How about one state of Palestine/Israel where everyone has equal rights? Why should the Palestinians have to leave Palestine?
Not going to happen. The Palestinians in Gaza are different from the Palestinians in West Bank, and they don’t have the same leadership, and the leadership doesn’t even get along. They will remain Palestinians but assimilate into Jordan and Egypt, where many of them are actually from. And what about the problem of Jerusalem? Are we just going to split that in half with a wall between East & West?
Israel and Judaism are an existential threat to Muslims and, especially Iran and Palestine, who want them completely extinguished. Palestineans could’ve had a two state solution, but that is not what they ultimately want. So they continue to goad Israel, and Israel continues to make inroads with settlements and such. Frankly, Israel could annihilate all of Palestine if they wanted to, but that’s not their endgame.
I am proposing a solution for Palestinians where Israel stops incursions, but Palestinians don’t want it. Again, Jordan and Egypt could make this solution easy and fairly seamless, but they know what they would be getting so they don’t want it, which speaks volumes. It’s not just Israel who blockades Gaza. There is a certain neighbor to the south.
So you oppose a state with equal rights for all and expect all the Palestinians to leave Palestine.
How about one state of Palestine/Israel where everyone has equal rights? Why should the Palestinians have to leave Palestine?
Israel would be fine with that outcome. Israel is a multi-ethnic state where over a million Arabs enjoy equal rights. Israel has an Arab Muslim on its Supreme Court.
There are no other thriving multi-ethnic societies in the Middle East. If you want to see true apartheid, try living as a Jew in a Muslim country. There are <100 Jews in Egypt out of a 100m population.
The problem is, Palestinians don’t want to coexist in harmony. They want to eradicate Israel and the Jews. This is not conjecture; this is part of their public mission statement.
(1) Hamas is a brutal terrorist group and their is NO justification for the evil they have wrought on innocent people.
(2) Both the Jews and the Palestinians have historical ties to the area.
(3) Many Arab groups were pretty open about wanting Israel destroyed. Terrorism has been their MO.
(4) With so many Arab counties in the area, why do they need another country for the two state solution.
(5) In 2007, the people of Gaza elected the terrorist group Hamas to lead them. Is the Gasa population complicit in the Hamas attack?
(6) Atrocity begets Atrocity.
And the state of Israel which has killed far more civilians than Hamas and backs settlers who attack Palestinians?
What do you label them?
The people of Israel have repeatedly elected Netanyahu. Are they not complicit in Israel's war crimes.
And when you accuse the people of Gaza of complicity, you seem to be justifying their genocide at the hands of Israel? No?
What about the people in the West Bank who are being attacked by roving mobs of settlers backed by the police and army as we speak? Where is their complicity?
Biden impeachment: gone from the news Runaway inflation: gone from the news Ukraine collapse: gone from the news Global recession: gone from the news Hunter Biden laptop: gone from the news COVID vaccine deaths: gone from the news
The Biden regime needed a war.
Israel was also on the brink of civil unrest over Bibi's actions with the Israeli Supreme Court and that has all gone away as well.
It is puzzling how this attack was a complete surprise to the supposed best spy network in the world.
And yet you are the biggest cheerleader for the ‘retaliation’. You’re so easily played.
