Sunday Mail Has More Details on Paula's Blood Values and Off Scores + News She'll Put up £1m for an MRI lie detector

'“These random isolated positive drug tests in Ethiopia and Kenya have nothing to do with management, it is just random pharmacists or doctors and sometimes doctors who are not fully certified offering drugs to athletes. It’s just some random lunatic doctors,” added Hermens.'

Just random coincidences

Wikipedia:

Herzog

"She is a seven-time Dutch national champion in cross country. She also won a bronze medal at the 2003 European Athletics Junior Championships.[1] On the circuit, she won the 2009 Lotto Cross Cup Brussels.[2]

Herzog was implicated in doping practices as part of investigations connected with Operación Galgo. Her coach at the time, Manuel Pascua Piqueras, was a central figure in the scandal. After being interrogated by the police, she was ultimately not charged of an offence after the evidence against her was destroyed.[3] In 2013, Dutch magazine Vrij Nederland published a series of email excerpts which it claimed demonstrated Herzog obtaining performance-enhancing drugs during 2011 and 2012"

Fred. Operation Galgo was an offshoot of Operation Puerto, that also finally got Marta Dominguez of Spain. She is now banned.

You are also way off topic Mr. Conspiracy.

Here is my latest thought on Paula Perfect.

If Paula had a panic attack when her nasal strip came loose during a race, can you imagine the severity of the panic attack that could be precipitated from her blood test results also getting loose. Oh my.

More Jos Hermens of the Netherlands coincidences:Results of 2015 World Championships for 1500m women:1) Genzebe Dibaba-coached by Jama Aden, who has had 2 runners with doping bans. Her sister Tirunesh Dibaba is married to Sileshi Sihine, who also used to be managed by Jos Hermens. Sileshi Sihine was also based in the Netherlands during the European track season when he was racing.2) Faith Kipyegon-from Kenya, is managed by Jos Hermens.3) Sifan Hissan-was born in Ethiopia, but moved and became a citizen of the Netherlands when she was a teenager. She is also managed by Jos Hermens. Fred, I am still waiting for answers to the questions about: Have you ever been a doctor or member of a professional cycling team?

fred wrote:

Wikipedia:

Herzog

"She is a seven-time Dutch national champion in cross country. She also won a bronze medal at the 2003 European Athletics Junior Championships.[1] On the circuit, she won the 2009 Lotto Cross Cup Brussels.[2]

Herzog was implicated in doping practices as part of investigations connected with Operación Galgo. Her coach at the time, Manuel Pascua Piqueras, was a central figure in the scandal. After being interrogated by the police, she was ultimately not charged of an offence after the evidence against her was destroyed.[3] In 2013, Dutch magazine Vrij Nederland published a series of email excerpts which it claimed demonstrated Herzog obtaining performance-enhancing drugs during 2011 and 2012"

Jos Hermens has also managed:1) Geoffrey Kamworor2) Eliud Kipchoge3) Kenenisa Bekele4) Haile Gebrselassie5) Stephen Kiprotich6) Abel Kirui7)Taoufik Makhloufiand for women also:1) Meselech Melkamu2) Gelete BurkaThe list has some pretty good runners Jos Hermens has helped over the years.Zersenay Tadese- the WR holder in 1/2marathon is based in Spain for most of the year and he has a Spanish coach named Jeronimo Bravo.

fred wrote:

'“These random isolated positive drug tests in Ethiopia and Kenya have nothing to do with management, it is just random pharmacists or doctors and sometimes doctors who are not fully certified offering drugs to athletes. It’s just some random lunatic doctors,” added Hermens.'

Just random coincidences

We've long heard how Paula has had "every detail attended to." It was an attempt to portray her as a thorough perfectionist. But we're coming to see that she's actually just a control freak. Of course controlling her blood values, but also controlling the press to make sure only positive stories get told about her. And threatening to anyone who prints negative things.Remember how Armstrong was such a bulldog about his public image? He would personally call any reporter who said one bad thing about them. Some of them he'd revoke press privileges to.People who so manipulate their surroundings always have something to hide. Always.Someone put a theory in another thread that it was Paula who funded the Brojos to start this site, with the hope that all the talk about other dopers would take the focus off of her. And that they wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.I laughed at the conspiracy theory, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.

rjm33 wrote:

Here is my latest thought on Paula Perfect.

If Paula had a panic attack when her nasal strip came loose during a race, can you imagine the severity of the panic attack that could be precipitated from her blood test results also getting loose. Oh my.

The head of USADA, Travis Tygart, was the main lawyer in the BALCO scandal. When he went after Lance, he received death threats, and Lance had friends in Congress that actually tried to shut down USADA or cut off its funding. Travis Tygart is now investigating Alberto Salazar, who is also associated with Nike. Lance had his yellow wristband. Paula ran with her red ribbon.

fred wrote:

'“These random isolated positive drug tests in Ethiopia and Kenya have nothing to do with management, it is just random pharmacists or doctors and sometimes doctors who are not fully certified offering drugs to athletes. It’s just some random lunatic doctors,” added Hermens.'

Just random coincidences

I found this quote very concerning fred.

When Jos Hermens uses the phrase "random lunatic doctors"; this is not in reference to someone like me, is it?

I am feeling a bit anxious about this. I think I am going to quadruple my Risperdal dose and add Zoloft. That should help take the edge off.

Reminds me of the autopsy mystery back in 2005.There was no autopsy actually performed as is customary in Ethiopia.

However From Jos Hermens:

" It is difficult to say if it was heart failure or something to do with the brain. The Ethiopian doctors who performed the autopsy could find nothing."

Are his athletes protected?

You guys should make up your mind if you want me to stop posting here. Since there really hasn't been anything new since WADA's last report, I could stop, but if my name keeps coming up like this, I have to respond.To be clear:- I did not hijack rjm33's moniker -- his verbosity with 5-10% content has been his style all along- I am not rjm33 or Jon Orange

rjm33 wrote:

slow news day:

http://espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfield&id=15190955http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/13/wada-one-microgram-meldonium-vitaly-mutko

Did you read the part from WADA on "balance of probabilities"?

Here is a list of my new theories:

1) rekrunner works at WADA

2) Dr. Martial Plan B Saugy helped to write the WADA clarification statement.

3) Maria Sharapova figured out how to get a "plausible explanation", maybe just by doing a transfer of money from one bank account to another.

4) What if rekrunner, rjm33, and Jon Orange are the same person? I came up with this new theory last week when our prescription for Risperdal ran out for all 3 of us at the same time!...just another coincidence.

You're a part of the entertainment. Not that I read your posts anymore; but a few people do and it keeps them fired up. And they keep the thread alive and remind us all that Paula's a dirty cheat.And that tends to leak into other parts of the site, and now (surprise!) it's leaking out into the real world. Yesterday a training partner (who doesn't read this site) said he keeps hearing stories of Paula being a doper. Even though there "hasn't been anything new"!Guess what?! LetsRun forum post are news!! And you can take partial credit for this!So you decide if you want to keep posting or not. I think it's a good thing, myself.

rekrunner wrote:

You guys should make up your mind if you want me to stop posting here. Since there really hasn't been anything new since WADA's last report, I could stop, but if my name keeps coming up like this, I have to respond.

To be clear:

- I did not hijack rjm33's moniker -- his verbosity with 5-10% content has been his style all along

- I am not rjm33 or Jon Orange

Absolutely. I agree whole-heartedly with what you have shown now and before. When a post-2009 ABP violation was found, the IAAF successfully used the pre-2009 points consistent with the post-2009 points to show an extended ABP violation and therefore could extend the sanction.But with Paula there is one subtle distinction. 16.2 g/dl is not an anti-doping rule violation. The simple uncontested fact is that neither the 2012 point alone, nor the 2009-2012 ABP profile, is or was considered an anti-doping rule violation leading to a sanction that could be extended with the corroborative evidence of the 2003 and 2005 points. WADA can still appeal the 2012 determination, if they decide it is appropriate.And if it had been, it's still not clear, given the circumstances, that the 2003 and 2005 points would also lead to an expert panelist determination of an abnormal ABP profile, which would arguably justify extending the length of a sanction.

casual obsever wrote:

As for the pre-2009 data, I have shown before to you that even the IAAF has used such data as evidence, stated here in their own words:

"Instead, in its submissions to the CAS, the IAAF carefully distinguished the pre-2009 data from the subsequent data,113 and cited it only as corroborative evidence going to sanction only."

And exactly that could be done here because of Paula's 16.2 g/dl in 2012.

I have a suggestion for everyone. If the approach is to chose which "side" to be on, or even worse, which anonymous poster to follow, I think you are absolutely playing the wrong game.Please don't chose "rekrunner" or "rjm33". Don't chose the Sunday Times, the ARD, or the IAAF.Don't look for someone to follow but see for yourself which claims can be independently objectively supported, and where any doubts can be.If you must chose a side, why not chose the side of the scientists like "Ashenden", who played such a critical role over a decade in many aspects regarding the development of the ABP?Aaah. Trick question. Chosing Ashenden represents the same dilemma:1) Do you chose the Ashenden who gave his expert (but non-peer reviewed) opinion to a British Parliamentary committee that pre-2009 data was "compelling evidence"?2) Or do you chose the Ashenden who wrote peer-reviewed papers quantifying the risks of many procedural factors which could lead to false positives?The reality is complicated -- you can chose both.For extremely high values, like we saw with the Russian women, orders of magnitude beyond all thresholds of suspicion, I would side with the first Ashenden. Does this include Paula? Hard for me to say yes.For values around sea-level and altitude-level thresholds of suspicion, I chose the Ashenden that wrote the papers showing how to recognize, and quantify, factors that reduce certainty and increase the likelihood of false positives. Do these suspicious values collected under conditions known to cloud certainty give strong evidence of doping, even using the lower standards of the UK media and the general public? Hard for me to say yes.What about all these confusing misdirecting statements from Paula? Same answer -- what claims can be independently objectively supported? Are two "excuses" contradictory, or can they co-exist? I have relied very little on Paula's statements, and the UK newspapers, but rely heavily on the detailed responses from the IAAF and WADA, and the many papers written by scientists like Ashenden.This is my advice for everything:Ask yourself, what exactly has Martial Saugy done? Does the connection between Jos Hermans/Claudio Berardelli/Frederico Rosa and his athletes, include doping?And then find out, not from the potentially biased and selective representations of anonymous posters, but from your own broader investigation, hopefully free from pre-formed conclusions.

not a troll at all wrote:

Please, rjm33... stop using the ellipsis ( ... ) all the time... You make me want to switch sides from you to... rekrunner...

rekrunner wrote:

Ask yourself, what exactly has Martial Saugy done?

Quite a few things. See for example here:

According to WADA, he directly went against their instructions and destroyed all those samples (Paula is not mentioned there :-) ). Yet WADA still loves him, and even (allegedly) recommended him to Paula, instead of discrediting him. That tells me a lot about both Saugy's and WADA's integrity - obviously he is still needed as the to-go-to guy to "clean" selected athletes.

And thank you, rekrunner, for not getting me started on I-see-nothing-Mr.-Conflict-of-Interest-Coe.

rekrunner wrote:

But with Paula there is one subtle distinction. 16.2 g/dl is not an anti-doping rule violation. The simple uncontested fact is that neither the 2012 point alone, nor the 2009-2012 ABP profile, is or was considered an anti-doping rule violation leading to a sanction that could be extended with the corroborative evidence of the 2003 and 2005 points. WADA can still appeal the 2012 determination, if they decide it is appropriate.

Well, sad but true.

But it wasn't the 16.2 alone: on top of that, her baseline is much lower, and her ret-% was in the normal range, which stands against this being an altitude effect.

Also true is that the first expert asked back in 2012 considered her explanations to be insufficient, triggering the process of adding two more experts to the panel. And since this is about Paula, all of the above was kept a secret, including who was on the committee and what their reasoning was and how the final vote turned out to be. We know from the Alemitu Bekele case that this is not the norm (see the EPO-malaria thread).

Speaking of Alemitu: her Hb values varied over the years between 13.0 and 17.1 g/dl, i.e. by 4.1 g/dl, compared to Paula's from 12.0 to 16.2 g/dl (4.2 g/dl). Judging by the outrageous 17.1 alone, Alemitu was the worse doper; going by the ABPs baseline criterion, Paula was worse (albeit likely within error, so let's say equally bad).

rjm33 , if you can read french or care to translate this article...

Very interesting declarations from Saugy on USADA and the Armstrong saga!

http://www.lausannenatation.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/lhistoire-du-jour1.pdf

You...insane...fool!

This is a good example. I don't really want to jump into arguments of the merits, but just highlight how the destroyed samples have been characterized in a way not giving a complete picture.Your own link, to their credit, tells us a lot of other interesting things:- That the Lausanne lab actually analyzed the samples (55 were able to be analyzed, and 12 were not) in 2012, and thought they were done with the mandate- The LAD destroyed the samples in 2013, almost two years before the formation of the WADA-IC, in accordance with normal WADA procedures- There seems to be a dispute: contrary to the WADA IC report, LAD says they did not receive explicit instructions to keep the samples- While the WADA-IC was not satisfied, or did not believe, the explanation for the destruction, they also found "has found no evidence of otherwise culpable conduct"To resolve the "dispute", a critical piece of missing information is to know what exactly did WADA instruct the Lausanne lab to do with the samples? This should be easy, but unfortunately neither WADA nor the LAD have made the exact instructions public (as far as I know).If I don't read for myself the link, and other external sources, like the WADA IC report, and the Press release from the Lausanne lab, I get a very incomplete picture.My responses might seem very one sided, but maybe it seems that way as I point out things that others omit or overlook.I'm not so interested in "this doesn't look good" type observations with veiled suggestions, or any "this tells me a lot" or "to-go-to-guy" type of anonymous conclusions, but rather concrete information that shows "something wrong actually occurred" and indicates "it was (likely) done on purpose".

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Ask yourself, what exactly has Martial Saugy done?

Quite a few things. See for example here:

http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/the-destruction-of-samples-and-martial-saugy/

According to WADA, he directly went against their instructions and destroyed all those samples (Paula is not mentioned there :-) ). Yet WADA still loves him, and even (allegedly) recommended him to Paula, instead of discrediting him. That tells me a lot about both Saugy's and WADA's integrity - obviously he is still needed as the to-go-to guy to "clean" selected athletes.

And thank you, rekrunner, for not getting me started on I-see-nothing-Mr.-Conflict-of-Interest-Coe.

"Fred, I am still waiting for answers to the questions about: Have you ever been a doctor or member of a professional cycling team?"

No and no. I have done hard bike workouts on a windspinner with an altitude simulator, and I am interested in biological receptors.

Thank you for the answers Fred!!!, as I have not been able to sleep since 5.4739 days ago; from when I first thought that you may be treating people. That is a relief, but I still increased the Risperdal dose anyway, just in case.

I had a correct prediction with no actual evidence seen with my own eyes that you are not a doctor and have not been a member of a professional cycling team.

What types of biological receptors are you interested in?

I am interested in many types of biological receptors. I read a lot.

http://investor.fibrogen.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=253783&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2139398

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26808067

I am going to let you in on a little secret Fred. After seeing what I have seen with my own eyes over the last 40 years and 80,000 miles of my own running life, I became sick of what I was seeing; and I am even more sick of it today.

One day I saw this thread about Paula and personally reached my own conclusion that she had done an autologous blood transfusion in 2003, maybe another autologous blood transfusion in 2005, and probably EPO in 2012. The conclusions took me less than 10 seconds to make. I personally could of stopped any more analysis of Paula's blood test results after that 10 seconds.

However, as you have now found out...I did not stop... and will probably never stop; until Paula and the rest of them are exposed, or I die...whichever comes first.

As the thread started to extend out to almost 1,700 posts and 80 pages up to now, I saw an opportunity... and decided one day to use this thread to try to "reveal" the lies not only of Paula Radcliffe, but also of Dr. Saugy, the IAAF, Kenyan athletics federation, Ethiopian athletics federation, Gabriel Rosa, Frederico Rosa, Claudio Berardelli, Renato Canova, Gianni Demadonna, Michel Boeting of the Netherlands, Gerard Van De Veen of Volare management from the Netherlands, Jos Hermens of Global Sports Communications (GSC) from the Netherlands, Maria Sharapova?, as well as some others along the way over the last 30 years of EPO use and 44 years of blood transfusions in many sports. Sorry about that. I tend to get off topic after over 6 months on the thread. The greatest discovery for me on the entire thread so far was the discovery of Jo Pavey, because she was such a beautiful example of the exact opposite of Paula Radcliffe and she was also from Britain. I really am absolutely in love with Jo Pavey.

Do you think many people have seen this thread?