I don't condone the Hamas terrorism at all, but neither the Israeli terrorism that has gone on over the years. The action of Hamas has set back Palestinian people for many years if not forever now. This will only result in more displacement of one of the most displaced people in history.
However, to claim that Jews have a right to the land because of historical occupation is pure rubbish. No group on earth is now where they were historically 1000's of years ago, except pure indigenous people of Africa, America , Australia etc. If you just want to put Jews where they 'were' milennia ago, then give my land back too. ;-)
And your last question...the very reason they were given Israel, was because "no country wanted the Jews" Ask that question, there are answers to it, but if one says anything then you are branded an anti-semite.
Is it also then "pure rubbish" to claim that the Palestinians have a right to the land now occupied by Israel?
Probably yes, if they were missing from that land for millenia, or even hundreds of years...but not if Jewish settlement displaced people at the time. You cannot 'just displace' people because your ancestors used to live there millenia ago
How many Muslim countries are there, and how many Jewish ones? We Jews tried to live in a non-ethno-religious state for centuries.
In fact, my family was sure they were regular Hungarians just like their neighbours, till those same neighbours forced them to wear the Yellow Star of David, passed all kinds of laws that drove Jews into poverty, forced most men into "Labour Battalions" for slave labour or to clear minefields with their bodies and many never returned. Their neighbours robbed them of all they owned and forced them into a Ghetto where they were starved and tortured and then packed into cattle cars to be shipped to Auschwitz to be gassed. So save us the BS about the wonder of non-ethnic states. We Jews no longer lie down quietly in the ditch as our Grandparents did, or in my case, walk quietly into the gas chamber.
An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.
Don’t sell yourself short like this. You can follow the line of conversation I replied to.
I really can’t.
Jews being expelled by conquering armies and European anti-semites is not the same as an Arab Muslims refusing to take in a group of Arab Muslims.
Israel is full of people with American, British, Australian and Canadian accents today. We weren’t all expelled. Many came of our own free will, but you already know this.
You have moved the goal posts from your initial point but regardless still today in Israel we refuse to take in our desperate Ethiopian Jewish brothers and sisters.
this never happens in agnostic areas. only in hyper religious ones.
Stunningly wrong. Twentieth century regimes that were atheistic, agnostic or otherwise against traditional religions that killed tens and perhaps hundreds of millions of innocent human beings, far, far, far, more than were killed in the name of religion throughout all of history. If we include Planned Parenthood (founded by the very anti-Christian Margaret Sanger) and its ilk, the number of innocent human beings slain certainly ranges into the multiple hundreds of millions.
BTW, it seems to me that Israel’s arguably heavy-handed, perhaps at least semi-oppressive treatment of Gaza was thoroughly validated by this attack. Hamas managed that much capability despite Israel squeezing them. Imagine what Hamas would have (and no doubt use) if Israel loosened up?
I love the idea of Israel stopping the settlement BS, sealing as best possible both of their Palestinian boarders, and being done with it. Unfortunately, this attack strongly suggests that doing so might be suicidal.
If they actually protect their borders, why would that be suicidal? It sounds like exactly what they should be focusing on.
How many people here actually believe Israel can destroy Hamas like this?
Worst case, they can’t get rid of Hamas, but tons of people on both sides die in the effort
Best case, they can get rid of Hamas, but tons (and perhaps tons more) die, AND WHAT REPLACES IT ??
But god, it’s gotta be damn hard. They appear to have missed A LOT of Hamas stuff going on in Gaza, despite a lot of resources and effort. And now you’re going to manage to completely eliminate it?
History and the local circumstances all point to a very low likelihood that they can take Hamas off the board. I understand the emotionally charged brutal response, but that just ain't gonna work.
Worst case, they can’t get rid of Hamas, but tons of people on both sides die in the effort
Best case, they can get rid of Hamas, but tons (and perhaps tons more) die, AND WHAT REPLACES IT ??
But god, it’s gotta be damn hard. They appear to have missed A LOT of Hamas stuff going on in Gaza, despite a lot of resources and effort. And now you’re going to manage to completely eliminate it?
History and the local circumstances all point to a very low likelihood that they can take Hamas off the board. I understand the emotionally charged brutal response, but that just ain't gonna work.
I responded in a different thread already but I believe it is relevant here too:
As someone who has spent several months in both Israel and Palestine (granted, this was in Bethlehem and Ramallah in the West Bank) and has given a lot of thought to this question, the unfortunate reality is that you cannot stop Hamas. No amount of concessions would get rid of Hamas, and giving more Israeli land to Gaza will only strengthen Gazan support for Hamas, as they would be one step closer to "liberating Palestine." However, Gaza would now be closer to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, making the threat of rockets and missiles significantly more apparent. Combine that with a population more hopeful of reclaiming more land and larger, more difficult borders to patrol, and you have a recipe for greater bloodshed. The current mission of the Israeli government is to "destroy Hamas," but you cannot destroy an ideology with violence alone. Even if Israel manages to kill most Hamas terrorists, the civilians of Gaza will witness this violence and destruction, making them even angrier than before. With leadership protected in Qatar and half the Gazan population under 18, Hamas will not struggle to convince impressionable civilians to join their cause. Israel has given 24 hours for over one million residents of Gaza City to evacuate to the south, a task that even the Israeli government knows is impossible. Once the ground invasion begins, IDF soldiers, Hamas terrorists, and many innocent civilians will die. Israel will secure their borders, Hamas will increase power, and the cycle will continue. Many have tried to propose other Arab states taking Palestinians or annexing their land, but none are interested in that. When Jordan annexed the West Bank, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) caused a bloody civil war known as Black September, which led to the assassination of former prime minister Wasfi Tal. Jordan eventually kicked the Palestinians out. When Lebanon accepted Palestinians, the PLO caused the 1982 Lebanon War, causing the Palestinians to be kicked out again. When Kuwait took 400,000 Palestinians, they turned on Kuwait during the Gulf War, with the PLO supporting the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Again, Kuwait kicked out all of the Palestinians. Even if Egypt agreed to annex Gaza, this wouldn't change the ethnic identity of Palestinians and their desire to take over the entire Israel-Palestine region. Ultimately, no country wants to get involved with Gaza because of Hamas, and the leaders of Hamas will continue to use Gazan citizens as pawns in a violent game with Israel. While it is very cynical, I cannot think of any other realistic solution besides continuing the cycle of violence. My heart breaks for the innocent civilians in Gaza who will likely continue to suffer for the rest of their lives.
Find me a group of Israeli Jews that ALL OTHER ISRAELI JEWS refuse to take in and they will be an apt comparison.
Oh I REALLY can.
You do believe in the Law of Return for Jews? I do.
Has the state of Israel turned away Jews? Absolutely and you know it.
You keep saying to “not sell myself short” and “you know it” implying that I know what you’re talking about and being coy. But I don’t, you’re speaking nonsense in regard to my point.
If there is a group that all jews reject, I’ll think there must be something wrong with them just like hamas. You prove that in one article where African Americans pretend to be Jewish a move to Israel and get rejected.
How do educated people that supported BLM , feel now, when Black Live Matter showed support for a terrorist organization like Hamas? Pretty stupid right?
Is it also then "pure rubbish" to claim that the Palestinians have a right to the land now occupied by Israel?
Probably yes, if they were missing from that land for millenia, or even hundreds of years...but not if Jewish settlement displaced people at the time. You cannot 'just displace' people because your ancestors used to live there millenia ago
The problem is that the Jewish settlements are populated by European Jews. Their ancestors did not live there. Their ancestors are north German. The European Jews have no ancestral claim anywhere, except maybe in Germany. The Jews that have a claim are the Mizrahi. They are natives of the Middle East and, like the other natives in the region, are of Arabic descent.
IMMIGRANTS CANNOT DISPLACE THE NATIVE PEOPLE, under the mistaken belief that Jerusalem was a predominately white people's Mecca 1000s of years before Christ. It wasn't.
How do educated people that supported BLM , feel now, when Black Live Matter showed support for a terrorist organization like Hamas? Pretty stupid right?
M-A-G-As are taking notes. They will try to use the Israeli genocide/holocaust method to claim that the U.S.A. was conservative white 1000s of years before native Americans arrived, and therefore all of the land is rightfully theirs, and people living where they shouldn't need to be cleansed by death. And everything those non-conservative whites own becomes their property and wealth.
Just hearing some Israelites swearing in interviews "they want to kill the Arabs", show they are a failed nation as social project.
It's not easy to win a deep and highly rooted nation like the Arabs.
The Quran was the first complet book written in Arabic written with grammatical rules. No other language can claim such historical achievement.
QUOTE. Archaeologists make new discoveries... Did Viking fighters convert to Islam?
The discovery by scientists of traces of clothes that were placed among Viking graves over a period of 100 years in the ninth century AD, with the name of the Majesty “God” and the name “Ali” written on them, sparked widespread controversy about the possibility of Islam reaching the Scandinavian countries.
I personally remember when there were no checkpoints in Gaza other than the basic ones you would see anywhere when people pass from one country to another. What happened? Terror happened. The USA had ONE terror attack and promptly invaded TWO far-off countries, not a threat to the USA , killing thousands. Threats to Israel are three feet away as we have seen.
Gonna need a bit of a fact check on that point. You're right wrt Iraq. But your claim is absurd wrt Afghanistan. Afghanistan was the home of the group that took down the Twin Towers. Seems like a threat to me.
I think you'll find Saudi Arabia is in fact the droids you're looking for
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