Uphills Or Downhills : Yeah Right Nobby !!
Auckand has it all.
When my parents lived in the village of Waitakere (North of Waiatarua)the only way out was uphill the only way back : downhill !!!!!.
Uphills Or Downhills : Yeah Right Nobby !!
Auckand has it all.
When my parents lived in the village of Waitakere (North of Waiatarua)the only way out was uphill the only way back : downhill !!!!!.
Man, Kim...you're no fun! The answer is "uphill or downhill depends on the direction you're running" so same number! A trick question for fun. Which one's heavier; a pound of iron or a pound of cotton?
The pound of cotton blew away in the wind.
The pound of iron oxidized...but the pound of flesh...
What was that saying about a pound of flesh?
Anyway, all this tlak of hills...
There is also the turnover on flatter terrain required.
There must be a healthy balance of the three - outside of prescribed phases?
Nobby, there are new Beer advertisements here for one of our 'older' Beers that is becoming popular again. It is callecd TUI, named after a famous bird here.
They usually take a 'quote of the week' (Politicians are targeted quite often)then after the quote they put "Yeah Right !" They have these huge Bill boards around the country where they do this. Lots of Laughs involved.
The ads have been so popular there has been books published with the Ads in them.
There maybe a few on local websites so I will see if I can download one and post it !.
An aside: There used to be a Road Relay that went past the TUI brewery and the first team that passed the gate won a Crate of TUI. It was a Relay that started with the slower Teams first so it was all on to be first past the Brewery.
I am sure that Arthur enjoyed a drop of TUI every now and then !.
Chris:
Agree with you there. As a matter of fact, I said a couple of pages ago (81?) that there IS such thing as too much hill.
Wow this is a long thread.
Who has a longer thread Lydiard or Daniels?
Speaking of longer threads.
I have a love of second hand book stores and Auctions of Books and I have picked up some copies of Peter Snells Book "No Bugles, No Drums", Murray Halbergs Book "A Clean Pair of Heels", Arthur's Books "Running with Lydiard" and a second edition "Run to the Top" (circa 1967).
I am in battle at present for a first edition "Run to the Top"
I have also got "Lap of Honour" by Norman Harris which contains some of New Zealands great running achievements (up to 1962 .... incl Snells' 1:44 800) and Dick Taylers "Golds are'nt Easy"
If anyone is interested get in touch. Only hitch is the postage to the US cranks the price up.
Kim:
Can you look for "Arthur's Boys"? By the way, Snell's bio, "No Bugles, No Drums", have been revised and should be coming out in the near future. Garth (Gilmour) was in TX working with Peter on that project as well as another book of Snell's, "Use It, Or Lose It". It's more of exercise physiology book.
Nobby,
Any chance on getting a transcript or clinic notes on the fivecircles site regarding the Launch of the Lydiard Foundation and the speakers/panel discussion?
I know all of you are busy with other projects on top of the Lydiard Foundation, but is there any talk of a representative possibly going to speak at high school association clinics or events such as the Midwest Distance Summit, for example?
Just interested in anything and everything I can get my hands on to try and further my understanding on the Lydiard approach to training.
Hyena:
Appreciate your interest. Any opportunity like that, let us know. We are thinking about hosting the first "Certificate" program in Boulder in August (tentative) with Peter Snell again. Snell and Martin will be our main Advisory Staffs so we intend to bring them on as every opportunity we can get. There will be various clinics planned with Devine Racing events as well with Rod Dixon. Will keep you guys posted but let us know of relevant events such as Midwest Distance Summit.
Do it! I may well be in Boulder in August.
Always on the look for "Arthur's Boys". Seems a little harder to get as I don't think there was a big print run of that book. I managed to get a copy for Spider 18 months or so ago. I'll see what I can do.
HRE,
I hope I meet you someday and have a beer and chat. Also, I'd like very much to meet Kim and Nobby. It would be so fun to put together some sort of meeting or at the Olympic Trials and chat for a few hours about something we all know and love - running. Tinman
Yeah, but how will they know it's really you, Tinman? :)
Just joshin'!
Great thread, still!
Ah Ha ! But I know who Tinman is so when he intoduces himself to me I will know it is him.
I look forward to the day !
We'll make it happen one day. If I can meet Kim in New Zealand I can meet you in Idaho, or thereabouts.
runningart2004 wrote:
I must be running a long run everyday then. I better stop before I overtrain myself....
I love all these nice black and white categories people tend to put things in but the body doesn't exactly work like that. If I run 1x600m at 5k pace am I really training Vo2max? If I run 2 minutes at "lactate threshold velocity" am I really training the "lactate threshold"? All these arbitrary numbers and "zones" don't really mean a thing to your body. Here's a training shorthand:
1. What is Vo2max and why is it reached? You are maximizing the ability of the body to use oxygen. So how do you train this? Reach a point in which your oxygen consumption is maximalized. This could be with intervals (400s, 800s, miles, doesn't really matter), hills (repeats up a half mile hill is possibly the BEST workout for this purpose), or short race (2mi/5k). In fact if you look at a few of "yesterday's" runners they probably did less track work but more races. That's the concept behind "racing yourself into shape". Best way to train to race is to...RACE.
2. What is lactate threshold why is it reached? Your body doesn't recognize set points. It progressively responds to a stimulus. You're always producing energy aerobically and anaerobically. The faster you run the more "anaerobic" the energy demands become. The longer you run the more "anaerobic" the energy demands become. Muscle fibers fatigue and thus more are needed. The purpose behind "lactate threshold training" is to stress your aerobic energy pathways to the max. Does this have to be at a set pace over a set distance? Nope. Does this have to be at a set % of something? Nope. Run hard without feeling that tightness or weakness in your legs that comes with intense anaerobic training and you've found the correct effort. It doesn't have to be a set pace. You could easily call an hour run at "marathon effort" an equal "lactate threshold" benefit as you could the arbitrary 20 minute tempo. The basic "out and back" run is possibly the best "tempo" run ever devised. Go run for 30 minutes. Come back along the same course at a faster pace. Or go for 45 or 60 minutes, it doesn't matter.
3. Too many times we as runners are so polluted with facts and figures that we forget what we're actually training for. We're not training to raise our Vo2maxes or lactate thresholds. We're training to race fast on Saturday. Once you figure that out you'll be controlling your own training instead of your training controlling you.
Just my little monthly rant.
Alan
Okay, so this quote came from another thread, "Benefits of 2 hour runs," I believe, but I thought it was worthy of discussion on this thread.
I find it interesting, especially still feeling an occasional urge to "pull" specific workouts such as Vo2max intervals and Daniels' style tempo runs into my own athletes training program. But I like how Alan describes how you can get those same 'benefits' from a variety of different sessions, i.e. the repeat half-mile hills or a 4K/5K race for VO2max or the out & back run for a tempo run, and thus get the more "running by feel" as opposed to "running by numbers or specific pace."
Just liked Alan's description. Anyone else want to comment?
I'd be hard pressed to argue with anything there. It's not too far removed from what a lot of us have been saying. Arthur never really thought about any of these thresholds that are so popular now. He generally suggested doing a lot of comfortable running and adding more stressful things at other times. But neither he nor Barry ever told me to run at any specific paces. It's always been presented as "Run for 2 to 2 1/2 hours," or "do 5x5 minutes" or "Run hills for 30-45 minutes." Any specifics were always in terms of length with some very general comments about effort levels.
I'd have to admit; I used to think HRE's comment of "Lydiard program is not for idiot..." as the best comment on letsrun threads but now it's tie with also HRE's comment of "let the pace find you..."
Yes, I do like Alan's description as well. The thing is; what and how Arthur's original runners trained didn't really geared to ONE specific development. Even if you're keeping your heart rate steady, running over muddy cross country course would do heck of a lot to your suppleness and ankle flexibility than running on a flat road. People argue the comment Lydiard made about "intervals/repetitions are not for speed training." Of course it is speed training in a sense that you're running faster than jogging and you work on mechanics and you'll get faster. But it is not "speed" training in a sense that you're honing your best possible speed.
Today people think too much. They think some fancy workouts with all those numbers and % sophisticated. Whatever happened to good old "K.I.S.S." principles...?