Rolling an ankle on some of the fastest and most buffed-out trails out there does not bode well for the first half of western states. Also he says he sprained his ankle at mile 14, yet still runs 9 more miles averaging sub-6 GAP? I'm calling bs, I think he blew up.
100%. If it was so bad he needed to drop he would have dropped at mile 14. Or 16. Not 23.
He's used sprained ankle as an excuse for every single race he's DNFed publicly but then privately he shares the actual reason, which, I can confirm, is not a sprained ankle.
I would be willing to bet he blew up and just couldn't handle not being on the podium despite being totally capable of finishing.
Not to pile on too hard but this dude wants to beat Kilian, the man who dislocated his shoulder 13 miles into Hardrock and went on to win, but drops out with (at the MOST) a very minor sprain with <8 miles to go. Yikes.
100%. If it was so bad he needed to drop he would have dropped at mile 14. Or 16. Not 23.
He's used sprained ankle as an excuse for every single race he's DNFed publicly but then privately he shares the actual reason, which, I can confirm, is not a sprained ankle.
I would be willing to bet he blew up and just couldn't handle not being on the podium despite being totally capable of finishing.
He has said multiple times that his ankles are bulletproof because he shredded the ligaments so many times. Still the easiest defensible excuse to come up with. Being a lawyer I’m sure he already had his excuse planned out. All that “pain cave” BS is great YouTube content but when it actually gets hard he just dips out. So inspirational.
This just proves to me that he was in make believe YouTuber shape and not in 50k race shape. His aerobic base is relatively weak because he didn’t put in enough miles in the build and those ridiculous workouts for his internet viewer only made him tired. Dude should have spent more time running and less being constantly online - no high carb race plan will replace being unfit.
I dunno this David Roche, but I live close enough to him. But I have never once seen him run on trail. He goes in as fast and as fragile as he possibly can get away with to race and this time he screwed that up. Roche needs to uptake his daily serving of the trail gnar gnar or he should just stick to roads. I don't care how fancy your treadmill is, it ain't a tread-trail.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Oh, Roche has dropped out of the Big Alta 50k 2025 at mile 23.
How are they going to frame this one in the video series? A bunch of B roll for videographer Cody? As I look at the results right now, only two people have dropped. Pretty shameful if you ask me.
Meanwhile Kilian doesn't have his best day at Chianti, but fights through a TFL/hip injury while putting ego aside to finish 2nd place, about 28 minutes behind Jim.
The truth is that David finally toed the line with a couple of A listers, got taken to the limit, and cracked. But we will get a good ankle roll/food poisoning/whatever else he comes up with story out of it on the podcast.
You literally called it. He didn't roll his ankle. He just didn't have the fitness to compete with the best in the West.
Megan's post was even more absurd/nauseating. So proud of David for finding the limits of his physiology! Really now?
Lmao the limits of physiology? I'm sorry what? Also seeing that he was telling people it was his knee...get your story straight, man. Looking at his Strava there's zero chance it was an injury. He was cruising and cooking. No slowdown, no stoppage time. Let's tell it like it is: he injured his ego. His knees, ankles, appendages are fine.
It's possible that he mainly excels at 100-mile races. There's less risk of ankle sprain at the slower pace and less need for a high VO2 max or even lactate clearance. The concept of durability is not well understood in exercise science, and he's been experimental with fueling and supplementing.
This just proves to me that he was in make believe YouTuber shape and not in 50k race shape. His aerobic base is relatively weak because he didn’t put in enough miles in the build and those ridiculous workouts for his internet viewer only made him tired. Dude should have spent more time running and less being constantly online - no high carb race plan will replace being unfit.
I may not have worded it like this but I agree.
His running volume (distance and more specifically time, as he is a trail runner) doesn't seem enough for Ultras, by a big margin.
I know there's are always exceptions to rules with Ultras (low mileage people doing brilliant) but I do think for 90%+ of us, volume really does matter.
*Note: He doesn't upload all WU+CD to Strava but that's probably an extra 10 miles/90 mins per week max*
The treadmill isn't helping either, there's something that only running on roads/trails can give you in resilience. I say this as someone who did 100mpw+ on treadmill, you think your super fit, but in real world you're not. It took, in a international vest, walking around a flat 100k ultra for the penny to drop on this one.
I don't wish a DNF or potential ankle roll on anyone, so am disappointed for him but hopefully it's a learning point. It should be something he brushes off as unlucky and doesn't change what he's doing.
I do want to commend Roche for making the content, and I find it watchable. Some elements (like heat training, use of strides) is good. Hopefully there's a good episode coming, really addressing the issues at play. The mans got lots of time.
His running volume (distance and more specifically time, as he is a trail runner) doesn't seem enough for Ultras, by a big margin.
I know there's are always exceptions to rules with Ultras (low mileage people doing brilliant) but I do think for 90%+ of us, volume really does matter.
*Note: He doesn't upload all WU+CD to Strava but that's probably an extra 10 miles/90 mins per week max*
The treadmill isn't helping either, there's something that only running on roads/trails can give you in resilience. I say this as someone who did 100mpw+ on treadmill, you think your super fit, but in real world you're not. It took, in a international vest, walking around a flat 100k ultra for the penny to drop on this one.
I don't wish a DNF or potential ankle roll on anyone, so am disappointed for him but hopefully it's a learning point. It should be something he brushes off as unlucky and doesn't change what he's doing.
I do want to commend Roche for making the content, and I find it watchable. Some elements (like heat training, use of strides) is good. Hopefully there's a good episode coming, really addressing the issues at play. The mans got lots of time.
I think you are making a ton of assumptions here, which seem to ignore what David’s training and statements suggest. It’s more likely that David does not disclose/post 1+ training hours each day. He’s probably training 25+ hours/week, with mileage being 85-100/week not counting bike miles.
Relatedly, he’s a trail/ultra-running coach!! He is supposed to be able to train his athletes to not only finish but excel in 50k races! It’s not like it was his first one. He knows that distance. The guy has not been running with or competing with the caliber that he was just up against.
He has been too busy self-promoting and trying to look fast that he lost sight of how to actually train effectively. I wouldn’t want a coach who can be so clumsy with his philosophy
Maybe he is just better at the 100-mile distance. We will see. But I think he just wasn’t good enough at Big Alta. Whether or not it was due to too few miles or too many treadmill miles, or maybe he’s just not as elite as he wants to be.
He still has time before Western States. Perhaps some of you recreational ultra athletes can offer coaching advice for any other “short” races he does.
mountainroche When I started the journey to Western States, I got vulnerable and wore my big dreams on my sleeve: “I’m in it to win it.” Around 5 months later, after tons of hard work and the birth of Ollie, I’m ready to add a footnote: “I’m almost certainly not going to win it.” It was always long odds, but I wanted the joy of a long-term bet on the “1” in the 1 in 1000 ratio. Maybe through science and belief I could make that number a bit higher. And I did that. But I haven’t improved those odds enough to race to win. Race to celebrate the process, possibly with a top finish on a good day? Absolutely. Race to win? Outcomes that are 5 in 1000 do happen (Megan thinks it’s higher 😂). Just don’t bet the house on it. Yesterday at the Big Alta 50k, I wanted to learn at the edge against the best in the world. I raced to win, going with a move by Eli Hemming that turned out to be above my pay grade, followed by an ankle sprain, ending in a DNF. I didn’t run my own race, and I think I would have had a tough day as a result even if the ankle didn’t splat. It was a double whammy with having my Gold Hill climb record obliterated the week before. I am so proud of the athlete I have become. I have applied science and belief to fundamentally reshape what I’m capable of. Coming into this build, I wanted to see if I could hit the BELIEVE sign so hard that it launched me to the stratosphere. I have gotten close, and I thought I might even have gotten there! But I also want to share the feeling that most of you probably have occasionally too, in all different areas of life: sometimes your rockets just don’t quite have the oomph to be the very best, and that’s beautiful too. I’m still going for it (and I always will be), with science and belief. Heck, maybe I am THE DUDE at 100 milers in particular, even if I’m not winning pure fitness competitions against the best in the world. And who knows? Maybe I just need to stack another 100 bricks. Maybe this lesson is exactly what I needed. Maybe pigs grow wings and bags fly free! There’s one way to find out: Keep showing up, with science and belief and love. I’m in it to have fun with it…and to see what’s possible for me. Let’s do this 🧡
mountainroche When I started the journey to Western States, I got vulnerable and wore my big dreams on my sleeve: “I’m in it to win it.” Around 5 months later, after tons of hard work and the birth of Ollie, I’m ready to add a footnote: “I’m almost certainly not going to win it.” It was always long odds, but I wanted the joy of a long-term bet on the “1” in the 1 in 1000 ratio. Maybe through science and belief I could make that number a bit higher. And I did that. But I haven’t improved those odds enough to race to win. Race to celebrate the process, possibly with a top finish on a good day? Absolutely. Race to win? Outcomes that are 5 in 1000 do happen (Megan thinks it’s higher 😂). Just don’t bet the house on it. Yesterday at the Big Alta 50k, I wanted to learn at the edge against the best in the world. I raced to win, going with a move by Eli Hemming that turned out to be above my pay grade, followed by an ankle sprain, ending in a DNF. I didn’t run my own race, and I think I would have had a tough day as a result even if the ankle didn’t splat. It was a double whammy with having my Gold Hill climb record obliterated the week before. I am so proud of the athlete I have become. I have applied science and belief to fundamentally reshape what I’m capable of. Coming into this build, I wanted to see if I could hit the BELIEVE sign so hard that it launched me to the stratosphere. I have gotten close, and I thought I might even have gotten there! But I also want to share the feeling that most of you probably have occasionally too, in all different areas of life: sometimes your rockets just don’t quite have the oomph to be the very best, and that’s beautiful too. I’m still going for it (and I always will be), with science and belief. Heck, maybe I am THE DUDE at 100 milers in particular, even if I’m not winning pure fitness competitions against the best in the world. And who knows? Maybe I just need to stack another 100 bricks. Maybe this lesson is exactly what I needed. Maybe pigs grow wings and bags fly free! There’s one way to find out: Keep showing up, with science and belief and love. I’m in it to have fun with it…and to see what’s possible for me. Let’s do this 🧡
Well, there's always the sub4 Mile!
(I read this post! I now know something about Dave Roche!!!)
mountainroche When I started the journey to Western States, I got vulnerable and wore my big dreams on my sleeve: “I’m in it to win it.” Around 5 months later, after tons of hard work and the birth of Ollie, I’m ready to add a footnote: “I’m almost certainly not going to win it.” It was always long odds, but I wanted the joy of a long-term bet on the “1” in the 1 in 1000 ratio. Maybe through science and belief I could make that number a bit higher. And I did that. But I haven’t improved those odds enough to race to win. Race to celebrate the process, possibly with a top finish on a good day? Absolutely. Race to win? Outcomes that are 5 in 1000 do happen (Megan thinks it’s higher 😂). Just don’t bet the house on it. Yesterday at the Big Alta 50k, I wanted to learn at the edge against the best in the world. I raced to win, going with a move by Eli Hemming that turned out to be above my pay grade, followed by an ankle sprain, ending in a DNF. I didn’t run my own race, and I think I would have had a tough day as a result even if the ankle didn’t splat. It was a double whammy with having my Gold Hill climb record obliterated the week before. I am so proud of the athlete I have become. I have applied science and belief to fundamentally reshape what I’m capable of. Coming into this build, I wanted to see if I could hit the BELIEVE sign so hard that it launched me to the stratosphere. I have gotten close, and I thought I might even have gotten there! But I also want to share the feeling that most of you probably have occasionally too, in all different areas of life: sometimes your rockets just don’t quite have the oomph to be the very best, and that’s beautiful too. I’m still going for it (and I always will be), with science and belief. Heck, maybe I am THE DUDE at 100 milers in particular, even if I’m not winning pure fitness competitions against the best in the world. And who knows? Maybe I just need to stack another 100 bricks. Maybe this lesson is exactly what I needed. Maybe pigs grow wings and bags fly free! There’s one way to find out: Keep showing up, with science and belief and love. I’m in it to have fun with it…and to see what’s possible for me. Let’s do this 🧡
I was thinking DNF at western states before this weekend, now maybe DNS. he’s lost his mojo. needs to bang out a sub 4 min mile to get it back.
mountainroche When I started the journey to Western States, I got vulnerable and wore my big dreams on my sleeve: “I’m in it to win it.” Around 5 months later, after tons of hard work and the birth of Ollie, I’m ready to add a footnote: “I’m almost certainly not going to win it.” It was always long odds, but I wanted the joy of a long-term bet on the “1” in the 1 in 1000 ratio. Maybe through science and belief I could make that number a bit higher. And I did that. But I haven’t improved those odds enough to race to win. Race to celebrate the process, possibly with a top finish on a good day? Absolutely. Race to win? Outcomes that are 5 in 1000 do happen (Megan thinks it’s higher 😂). Just don’t bet the house on it. Yesterday at the Big Alta 50k, I wanted to learn at the edge against the best in the world. I raced to win, going with a move by Eli Hemming that turned out to be above my pay grade, followed by an ankle sprain, ending in a DNF. I didn’t run my own race, and I think I would have had a tough day as a result even if the ankle didn’t splat. It was a double whammy with having my Gold Hill climb record obliterated the week before. I am so proud of the athlete I have become. I have applied science and belief to fundamentally reshape what I’m capable of. Coming into this build, I wanted to see if I could hit the BELIEVE sign so hard that it launched me to the stratosphere. I have gotten close, and I thought I might even have gotten there! But I also want to share the feeling that most of you probably have occasionally too, in all different areas of life: sometimes your rockets just don’t quite have the oomph to be the very best, and that’s beautiful too. I’m still going for it (and I always will be), with science and belief. Heck, maybe I am THE DUDE at 100 milers in particular, even if I’m not winning pure fitness competitions against the best in the world. And who knows? Maybe I just need to stack another 100 bricks. Maybe this lesson is exactly what I needed. Maybe pigs grow wings and bags fly free! There’s one way to find out: Keep showing up, with science and belief and love. I’m in it to have fun with it…and to see what’s possible for me. Let’s do this 🧡
I was thinking DNF at western states before this weekend, now maybe DNS. he’s lost his mojo. needs to bang out a sub 4 min mile to get it back.
His running volume (distance and more specifically time, as he is a trail runner) doesn't seem enough for Ultras, by a big margin.
I know there's are always exceptions to rules with Ultras (low mileage people doing brilliant) but I do think for 90%+ of us, volume really does matter.
*Note: He doesn't upload all WU+CD to Strava but that's probably an extra 10 miles/90 mins per week max*
The treadmill isn't helping either, there's something that only running on roads/trails can give you in resilience. I say this as someone who did 100mpw+ on treadmill, you think your super fit, but in real world you're not. It took, in a international vest, walking around a flat 100k ultra for the penny to drop on this one.
I don't wish a DNF or potential ankle roll on anyone, so am disappointed for him but hopefully it's a learning point. It should be something he brushes off as unlucky and doesn't change what he's doing.
I do want to commend Roche for making the content, and I find it watchable. Some elements (like heat training, use of strides) is good. Hopefully there's a good episode coming, really addressing the issues at play. The mans got lots of time.
I think you are making a ton of assumptions here, which seem to ignore what David’s training and statements suggest. It’s more likely that David does not disclose/post 1+ training hours each day. He’s probably training 25+ hours/week, with mileage being 85-100/week not counting bike miles.
Relatedly, he’s a trail/ultra-running coach!! He is supposed to be able to train his athletes to not only finish but excel in 50k races! It’s not like it was his first one. He knows that distance. The guy has not been running with or competing with the caliber that he was just up against.
He has been too busy self-promoting and trying to look fast that he lost sight of how to actually train effectively. I wouldn’t want a coach who can be so clumsy with his philosophy
Maybe he is just better at the 100-mile distance. We will see. But I think he just wasn’t good enough at Big Alta. Whether or not it was due to too few miles or too many treadmill miles, or maybe he’s just not as elite as he wants to be.
He still has time before Western States. Perhaps some of you recreational ultra athletes can offer coaching advice for any other “short” races he does.
About the training mileage, I asked him directly and replied to me.
So he told me Strava is fair representation of his training but he doesn't upload all warm ups and cool downs so he doesn't clutter people's feeds.
I've got no reason to think he lied, hence me detailing it.
I get the rest of your post, fair/reasonable/insightful points.
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