Semenya wins in court, is able to race all distances without lowering her testosterone

if anything, Caster should supplement with MOAR testosterone

lap the field in an 800m

Lefalize PED wrote:

Being a guy doesn’t guarantee you can compete with elite women in any event. Get over it and work harder if you don’t like it.

Be real.

I was a fair to middling Division Three runner but my best time in the 800 meters is faster than the American women's record.

Ajee cheats wrote:

Jo72 wrote:

I guess the judges found the women's 800m race in Stockholm too lame... :D

Yeah. Tainted meat isn't exiting enough, that's for sure.

That that roided up lady wins when the dsd athletes don't compete, only reinforces the IAAF's argument how advantageous steroids are. But we all know that either way...

Fogrunr wrote:

Better:

An open women's category

An open men's category[/quote]

Isn't that what we have now?

Where are the 'women' going to compete?

Bee Reel wrote:

Lefalize PED wrote:

Being a guy doesn’t guarantee you can compete with elite women in any event. Get over it and work harder if you don’t like it.

Be real.

I was a fair to middling Division Three runner but my best time in the 800 meters is faster than the American women's record.

This.

I was a very good athlete. I could have won every women's event up to 1500. With some focus likely that too.

I would have also won every jumping event. I'd have had to focus on the HJ to get another inch or two. But seeing as I was only a kid when I set my PR and moved on to other events, I would have cracked that for sure.

I would have been beaten in the throws. Cos you know, I was not interested in putting all that weight on.

Semenya is an average male B athlete, who'd been turned loose in the women's events. I would not be surprised if a surgical reassignment had been done at birth. But probably they would have removed the clangers. And obviously they didn't. And those clangers are certainly world class. Her T levels are huuge. Even for a man.

In my mind, Semenya has passed the point where the semantic kid gloves should come off. Before we could grant him the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, he is just an a-hole exploiting a loophole, pure and simple.

I’m pretty sure I was the first one to suggest a boycott, and I did it on here, years ago.

I also suggested T divisions on here, way back in 2011:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4209833&page=1

I knew back then that using the idea of “gender” to determine categories would be unworkable going forward because people (courts) are largely ignorant, inarticulate, and are easily seayed by political concerns presented by “experts” and cloaked as fact. When opposing experts are called, the trier of fact’s eyes glaze over, and they tune out.

TheProblemIs wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Most women aren't defined that way. They are XX.

The fact 'most' women are XX is completely irrelevant.

Screw biology? Screw Science? I guess we should go back to the dark ages then!

“The problem” is first and foremost individuals like Semenya, who are egomaniacal venal a-hole’s, who express no social responsibility and who do not self-select in an honorable fashion.

“The problem” is secondarily a society that maintains governing bodies that sanction and reward a-hole anti-social behavior.

“The problem” is tertiarily that “women” apparently prefer to complain and have men do something on their behalf on this issue, rather than sticking their own necks out in public.

Oh , yes...get them in private, and they go off without provocation.

Part of it is their dysfunctional sensitivity to the prospect of being labeled a beeyotch, as apparently often happens when they publicly express a complaint.

If women ever got their act together and acted and spoke in each other’s defense, that perception would not be a majority position, and women could more freely speak their minds without fear of overwhelming censure.

But that’s not the case. As often as not, women act against the interests of other women, as frenemies. So, they work through men, behind the scenes. They plant ideas and suggestions, they complain, they threaten, they subtly coerce. They use men as their public agents.

*******

Is this entire situation the thin edge of some wedge, about which we should all be gravely concerned? As far as I’m concerned, the lunatics took over the asylum in the west some time ago. At this point in the fracturing of human relations, you have to pick your spots. Women need to take care of this issue for themselves at this point, or suffer the consequences. At some point, western men get tired/bored/sick of carrying their water for them.

And while they will in the open celebrate the withdrawal of a putatively unwelcome patriarchal interference, women will in private continue to try to coerce men to do their bidding...with every reasonable expectation of success, I might add.

C’est la vie.

atohitotsu wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

46XY, same as all the men on the planet; testes - like all the men; male levels of testosterone; no ovaries and no womb - just like all the men. So, explain again how such an athlete fits the female category for sports?

No penis - same as all the men on the planet?

No visible testicles i.e. no scrotum - same as all the men on the planet?

None of the things you described (46xy, internal testicles, womb and ovaries) are things that are normally checked in babies. Baby born with no penis and no ball sack hanging out = female. So it has been, all over the world, for thousands of years, so it was for Caster Semenya. Unless you’re proposing 7 year old girls should undergo chromosome testing before their first junior track meet?

Ummm, Casters condition as well as similar conditions have been known to humanity for literally 1000s of years and identified as such, this is nothing new, except how society treats them. Caster's case is no doubt a result of bad health care professionals and then after that poor reflection.

Yes I know some not currently competing have spoken out, and I have every respect for them.

Women today need to take a lesson from an earlier generation..

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Yes I know some not currently competing have spoken out, and I have every respect for them.

Women today need to take a lesson from an earlier generation..

So, in your world, are the IAAF the men? I don't understand which men you're referring to when it comes to 'sorting things out'?

If it's a womens race, Semenya should be able to race. If it's an XX category, then label it as that. Just be precise with what it is, and stick to it.

Err, right. Fascinating having you share your misogynistic hatred for women with us.

Do you know what happens to women who complain in public - your comments are deleted. I posted quite mildly on the bbc reporting of this latest turn in the case, that the IAAF ruling only covered XY athletes with DSD and my comment was deleted. Nothing controversial or personal about Semenya at all. As usual, loads of abusive comments about women and about Semenya being a woman were not deleted and were published. Thats par for the course on media.

When Lynsey Sharp complained about Semenya, she was subject to racist comments, called slow, and received death threats. She reduced her social media presence for her own safety and also because British Athletics/lottery funding contracts require athletes to be uncontroversial. I guess its the same with sponsorship contracts - no company wants to be associated with an athlete who makes comments that could be seen as anti-trans or anti-inclusive. So start making those sort of comments or arranging something with other female athletes behind the scenes, and you risk losing your contract and funding or not being invited to races you need to run in to get points and times. It would be career suicide.

Added to that, we have to deal with abusive comments labelling women as all having the same supposed faults, as if we are one generic mass who all behave the same. Thats like saying all men are rapey.

I'm not seeing any male athletes coming out in public to make a stand against a mid packer male athlete winning Olympic and World medals by claiming to be a woman either. Where are all the other club standard male 800m runners condemning this or claiming that they should be able to identify as women solely for the purpose of winning races [which is basically the only time that Semenya appears to identify as a woman].

Ray Flynn tweeted his disagreement with the Swiss court's recent ruling against the IAAF, and his tweet was "liked" by several prominent women pros and former pros, including Emily Infeld, Emma Bates, Mary Cain, and Nicole Freitag:

Emma Bates also had the guts to retweet it:

They'll no doubt be crucified by the SJWs for it, but women pros are becoming more willing to speak out against this travesty.

This is very unfortunate. Ajee competed in our Youth Club league in Philly and I feel bad for her. She was always head and shoulders above her peers and you knew that great things would come if she stuck with it. But then she runs into the Semenya/Wambui/Niyonsaba tsunami.

Congrats to Ray Flynn for his comments.

For Semenya it is all about the money. Just figure out what the total amount of money they would make in their career and pay it off. Yes, it is an extorsion payment but it would solve the problem.

Like I said, another woman shooting herself in the foot by calling the biggest male woman’s advocate a misogynist.

Try reading all the posts.

Did you post on here? Not until now. Unless you’re a complete nutjob, your post would not have been deleted. I offer my own posts as evidence.

And stop being a wimp. You illustrate exactly my point. You are afraid to get a bloody nose. Ooohhh, somebody called you a name, or labelled you. If you really believe in what you are saying, FIGHT BACK instead of folding like a cheap lawn chair.

Misogyny isn’t hearing something you need to hear for your own benefit, and not liking it. Stop talking for a second and listen. And please stop reciting the same automatic ritual incantations that have gotten you nowhere other than to the situation where your complaints aren’t listened to.

To some extent yes, and as I said I applaud them for it.

But it doesn’t go far enough. It’s tepid to “re-tweet” something. As for Flynn, his tweet was equally tepid. It’s 100% of women, not 99%. It is NOT a difference without a distinction.

But yes, those women who say anything at all are a credit. Still, actions can speak louder than words. When you believe in the importance of a larger issue, you have to set your own immediate needs to one side in pursuit of the greater good.